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Do you see Libertarianism as the perfect political system, or is it a 'lesser of 3 evils' type of thing for you?

Its flawless
Its better than the mainstream parties
I am not a Libertarian.

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Author Topic: Is Libertarianism perfect?  (Read 13899 times)

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badinfluence

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Re: Is Libertarianism perfect?
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2006, 06:28:37 PM »

Personally, Libertarianism is the lesser of 3 evils.
I don't think that there is a political party that better fills my criteria for a good political party, so I have little problem voting Libertarian.

Exactly!!!

I can't say I'm libertarian, though I almost always vote libertarian.

I recall reading somewhere years ago either in the party documents or on their website that if you don't adhere to ALL the principals of the party - then you're not libertarian.

That always struck me as odd.  Dems and Repubs dont' have the same "rule".

Jonathan
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Brian Wolf

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Re: Is Libertarianism perfect?
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2006, 06:37:28 PM »

Edit: Just so no one is confused, I said exactly what I meant, regardless of what ignorant, smug, white-bread, know-it-all internet trolls think I mean.
holy crap do we have communication issues.  That was totally funny if you're not so sensitive. 
Also, I wasn't referring to you but to BillG aka Ben Tucker aka Frank Chodorov.
And furthermore, I'm one of those Mutual Georgist etc. etc. I don't remember the rests that I was talking about.  Did I fuck your woman? 
edit:  I suppose I'm not really a mutual geo...........  Bill's the only one I know that has at one point or another claimed ALL those titles (except tribalist...  I threw that in for sheer syllable quantity). 

I ain't mad at you.
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BenTucker

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Re: Is Libertarianism perfect?
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2006, 07:13:26 PM »

Quote
the only one I know that has at one point or another claimed ALL those titles

I am also a catholic distributist and a southern agrarian too...

see Richard Weaver: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_M._Weaver

excerpt:
Weaver’s Ideas Have Consequences largely influenced scholars of “the postwar intellectual Right” (Nash 87). Stemming from a tradition of "cultural pessimism" (Nash 92), Weaver’s sometimes shocking criticism of nominalism gave conservatives a new literary direction. Conservative intellectuals such as Russell Kirk, William F. Buckley Jr., and Wilmoore Kendall, to name a few, praised the book for its critical insights (Young 179). Publisher Henry Regnery claims that the book gave the modern conservative movement a strong intellectual foundation (Nash 82). Weaver gained such respect in the academic world that in 1964, a graduate fellowship program [2] was named after him at the Intercollegiate Society of Individualists (Nash 82) after his death. Even the key libertarian theorist of the 1960s -- and former Communist Party official -- Frank S. Meyer, publicly thanked Weaver for inspiring him to join the Right (Nash 88). Weaver’s writings struck a cord with conservative intellectuals with his refutation of what Russell Kirk termed, “ritualistic liberalism” (Nash 87). In other words, much of Weaver’s writing attacked the growing number of modern Americans denying conservative structure and moral uprightness by replacing them with naive relativism. Weaver has been accredited with precisely defining America’s plight, and inspiring conservatives to find “the relationship between faith and reason for an age that does not know the meaning of faith” (Toledano 259). In the 1980s, the emerging paleoconservatives [3] adapted Weaver’s theories regarding the Old South. These conservatives adopted Weaver’s dialogue to express the ideas of antimodernism (Nash 109). For relativistic liberals, Weaver was a misguided propagandist of authoritarianism. For conservatives, Weaver was a champion of tradition and liberty, with the emphasis on traditionalism. For Southerners, Weaver was a refreshing “defender of the antimodern South” (Nash 108).

Wendell Berry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendell_Berry

excerpt:
His nonfiction serves as a long defense of the life in which he finds value. According to Berry, this good life includes: sustainable agriculture, appropriate technologies, healthy rural communities, the Gospels, connection to place, the pleasures of good food, stewardship of Creation, husbandry, good work, local economics, the miracle of life, fidelity, frugality, reverence, peacemaking and the interconnectedness of life. The threats Berry finds to this good life include: industrial farming and the industrialization of life, ignorance, hubris, greed, violence against others and against the natural world, the declining topsoil in the United States, global economics, environmental destruction.

Wendell Berry is often cited as a defender of agrarian ideals and frequently voices his appreciation for the Amish. His appreciation for the traditional farming techniques such as those of the Amish grew in the 1970s, due in part to exchanges with Draft Hourse Journal publisher Maurice Telleen. Berry has long been a friend of, and supporter of the work of, scientist Wes Jackson, whose agricultural research at The Land Institute Berry feels lives out the promise of "solving for pattern" and using "nature as model."

E.F. Schumacher http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._F._Schumacher

excerpt:
Schumacher's rejection of materialist, capitalist, agnostic modernity was paralleled by a growing fascination with religion. His interest in Buddhism has been noted. However, from the late 1950s on, Catholicism heavily influenced his thought. He noted the similarities between his own economic views and the teaching of papal encyclicals on socio-economic issues, from Leo XIII's "Rerum Novarum" to John XXIII's "Mater et Magistra", as well as with the distributivism supported by the Catholic thinkers G.K. Chesterton, Hilaire Belloc and Vincent McNabb. Philosophically, he absorbed much of Thomism, which provided an objective system in contrast to what he saw as the self-cented subjectivism and relativism of modern philosophy and society. He also was greatly interested in the tradition of Christian mysticism, reading deeply such writers as St. Teresa of Avila and Thomas Merton. In 1971, he converted to Catholicism.



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Ecolitan

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Re: Is Libertarianism perfect?
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2006, 09:25:06 PM »

Damnit Ben....  That throws my numbers all off.  And for the life of me I can't figure out how to arrange all those words in a manner that is pleasing to both the eye and the ear.  I'm going to reccoment you adopt tribalism because I can pass tribal off as an adjective but you should also lose one other ism if you're going to add agrarian into the mix.  One more thing, you might not want to wear your religion on your sleeve so as not to alienate anyone.  If you can do all that and give me some leeway on suffixes I think I can come up with something both sexy and simple consisting of no more than 78 syllables but if you don't stop reading right now I'm afraid the result will be unsalvageable.
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Taors

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Re: Is Libertarianism perfect?
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2006, 09:31:54 PM »

It's neither perfect nor simply the 'lesser of x-many evils'. It's the best system as it doesn't exert force on others, or at least minimalises the force used. There will still be problems, but they're not 'political problems' anymore.

Yep.
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lapafrax

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Re: Is Libertarianism perfect?
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2006, 05:19:15 PM »

No human system is perfect.

But libertarianism draws upon human nature because all people want to be free to live their lives and make choices.  Other ideologies, like socialism or conservatism, aren't so in tune with human nature.
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mike the godless heathen

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Re: Is Libertarianism perfect?
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2006, 05:47:25 PM »

No human system is perfect.

But libertarianism draws upon human nature because all people want to be free to live their lives and make choices.  Other ideologies, like socialism or conservatism, aren't so in tune with human nature.

word to your mother
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Hittman

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Re: Is Libertarianism perfect?
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2006, 05:57:31 PM »

Is capitalism perfect? 

Hell no.  It's messy and mean and often unfair and sloppy and random and nasty and darwinistic. 

But no one has come up with a better system.  No other system comes close when it comes to getting the maximum amount of freedom and prosperity to the maximum number of people. 

And it works so well for two primary reasons - it's self correcting, and it works with human nature, not against it. 

The same can be said of Libertarianism.  It can't be perfect.  But it can be a damn site better than anything else. 
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velojym

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Re: Is Libertarianism perfect?
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2006, 06:42:38 PM »

The closer we can come to a LACK of a system, the better. Eventually, we may once again learn to deal with each other
without a bunch of armed thugs looking over our shoulders.
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We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.
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Bill Brasky

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Re: Is Libertarianism perfect?
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2006, 05:52:03 AM »

I have a minor rant that I saved to a document that would fit in here nicely...  The other day when the board wasn't accepting posts, I kept it cause it was mercifully short and it made sense for a change. 

I know, thats damn near a miracle for me. 

So, I am placing this little message here as a bookmark.  I'm elsewhere. 

PS-  Libertarianism makes sense...  but I have to agree with the lesser of the three evils choice.  Not that I could come up with a better solution. 
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freedom geek

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Re: Is Libertarianism perfect?
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2006, 09:28:20 PM »

nothing or nobody is perfect
I am nobody therefore I am perfect
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tones

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Re: Is Libertarianism perfect?
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2006, 01:11:30 PM »

I think I have more in common with Libertarianism than anything but I can't answer this question because I find the philosophy or the party at least, not maleable enough for consistently real participation in the country's direction. This mostly has to do with my support for the current war. I think wartime and peacetime are decidedly different with respect to execution of the Constitution and I think that the Constitution itself has accounted for this, but people do not read it as such. But then during peacetime people the other side doesn't read the Constitution right either and they want to gift money away, so nothing's perfect.
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Hittman

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Re: Is Libertarianism perfect?
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2006, 04:37:19 PM »

Quote
I recall reading somewhere years ago either in the party documents or on their website that if you don't adhere to ALL the principals of the party - then you're not libertarian. 

This is a huge problem.  A lot of Big Ls insist that if you're not 100% pure, you're not a principled libertarian.  (Ian is guilty of this.)  Someone can agree with 98% of the platform, but that remaining 2% makes them an evil statist.

The libs need to outgrow this attitude unless they want to keep failing miserably everywhere. 
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Smitty507

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Re: Is Libertarianism perfect?
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2006, 09:39:15 PM »

Libertarianism is perfect.  No matter whether you are a minarchist or a total anarcho-capitalist, as long as you adhere to the the libertarian principle everyone's peaceful and happy.

 :D
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Taors

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Re: Is Libertarianism perfect?
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2006, 10:09:38 PM »

Libertarianism is perfect.  No matter whether you are a minarchist or a total anarcho-capitalist, as long as you adhere to the the libertarian principle everyone's peaceful and happy.

 :D

That's what most Socialists think too.
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