Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  The Polling Pit
| | |-+  If we had open borders ...

Poll

If America becomes the only industrialized nation to completely open its borders to uncontrolled immigration, as Ian suggests, how many people would move here?

More than 4,000,000,000
- 22 (32.4%)
More than 3,000,000,000
- 0 (0%)
More than 2,000,000,000
- 0 (0%)
More than 1,000,000,000
- 2 (2.9%)
More than 500,000,000
- 6 (8.8%)
More than 250,000,000
- 5 (7.4%)
More than 100,000,000
- 5 (7.4%)
More than 50,000,000
- 8 (11.8%)
More than 25,000,000
- 5 (7.4%)
More than 10,000,000
- 7 (10.3%)
Less than 10,000,000
- 8 (11.8%)

Total Members Voted: 30


Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8]   Go Down

Author Topic: If we had open borders ...  (Read 34150 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

markuzick

  • Atheist Pro-Lifer
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1876
  • Dr. Montessori: Discipline through liberty
    • View Profile
Re: If we had open borders ...
« Reply #105 on: March 19, 2008, 08:48:06 AM »

They will be coming here to escape socialism, so a far smaller percentage of immigrants than citizens will be likely to be socialists.

Like Mark pointed out a few shows ago, the Massholes moving north aren't subject to instant conversion on I-93...

The "Massholes" are citizens. They are entitled to state funded health, education and welfare and they have the right to vote for more of the same. If NH was an independent country and immigrants were exempted/barred from these programs and naturalization, they would make good neighbors or at least the ones still willing to come would be.


Those who are socialists will be unable to vote anyway.

Quote
You still don't get it.  Giving people the vote and letting them vote themselves into socialism was done in self-defense to prevent violent revolution.


People who are not oppressed by the laws, regulation and corruption of the state and who have the right to private property do not start violent revolutions. A violent revolution is infinitely more likely to come from an oppressed citizenry.

Quote
A free society is only possible when you have lots of well-educated, armed middle-or-upper-class people and as little poor people around as possible.  The more poor people you have around, the more socialism you need to keep them content.

Poor people are citizens who are indoctrinated in statism, oppressed by the state, who are kept on welfare or state employment and kept by monopolistic regulations from starting businesses and accumulating wealth, property or any form of dignity or independence. They are not upwardly mobile, hard working immigrants, no matter how disdainfully you view their meager origins.


By being free of subjection to socialist programs and indoctrination, those immigrants that started off with socialist beliefs will soon learn the relative advantage of living with individual responsibility as compared with the hapless citizen who is bred to be a slave. They will be the first to reject socialism and the citizens will learn from and, I hope, follow their example.

Quote
Yes, history is filled with examples of majority-poor societies working hard to lift themselves out of poverty, which often takes several generations, with neither colonialism nor socialism nor any other form of violence what-so-ever.  Just look at how well it works in Africa, Latin America, Eastern Europe, South Asia, etc! </SARCASM>  :roll:

You cannot even give one example of a poor society that has protection of property rights, but then you're off topic anyway, since the subject is immigration. (Your slight of hand trickery isn't working for you. :wink:)


Each person's freedom is not yours to share or withhold.  Every person who pursues freedom without the expectation of state welfare and is able to establish an economic foothold for himself, is more worthy of freedom than someone who has done nothing but get born to the right parents.

Quote
Yes, but the entire 6.5 billion (and growing) mob of humanity cannot achieve freedom by coming to America!


No one ever said they could. The optimal level of immigration is not predictable. It would be regulated by market incentives. It's the only rational and moral way to regulate any market, be it the flow of goods or people.

Quote
It is in the best interests of those already living here to let the best of would-be immigrants compete for this privilege, and only let in a reasonable amount every year.  All other first-world countries are doing that, to varying degree of success, and for America to be the only first-world country to open itself to an endless flood of third-world refugees (who don't necessarily love the concept of property rights as much as we do) would be suicide!

I've already explained what a disaster that would be, but you still want us to continue to follow the rest of the world toward socialistic suicide, just as much of the rest of the world is finally giving up on socialism as an unmitigated disastrous mistake.


By erecting a great wall?  :roll:
Quote
If we do enforce immigration limits, the question of the physical wall isn't all that crucial - maybe like 200,000 a year will get in if we have the wall and 300,000 a year if we don't.  If we have open borders, on the other hand...  After a while, the biggest red spot on he population density map would be in North America:

Again, you fail to consider the self regulating effect of market incentives to maintain an optimal balance. These kinds of predictions, like the predictions of all statist panic mongers from population control advocates to global warming doomsayers, are all baseless speculation and conjecture for the purpose of empowering the state.

The failure of socialistic immigration policy is what leads to illegal immigration and the war against this is what will result in requiring permission of the state to seek employment, a place to live or the right to travel.

I hope you enjoy the slavery that you seek.
Logged
As the state feeds off of the limitation and destruction of legitimate government, anarchy is its essence.

To claim "economic rent" from someone Else's labor when applied to land, which is something no one can own outright, is in itself, to claim landlord status over raw nature. It is an attempt at coercive monopoly power that is at the root of statism.

hellbilly

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6664
  • Pogue Mahone.
    • View Profile
Re: If we had open borders ...
« Reply #106 on: March 21, 2008, 02:04:39 AM »

i think this thread is debating an outdated version of the issue - it has gone far beyond this simple concept of a guy sneaking across once and becoming a mooch. so lets start with some recent problems..

so lets say the unauthorized immigrant came across and had his chance at success - but that he raped someone and got arrested and deported for his crime.

what should we do with the same guy when he sneaks across the border for the 2nd or 3rd time? once he has been convicted of raping someone or molesting a child- all we're gonna do is drop him off at the border and hope to catch him next time?

news vid on the topic from AZ:
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=65874#comment-245674
Logged
Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

"We are profoundly dissatisfied with pretty much everything but we canít articulate why, and are unable to offer any viable alternative." - Nathaniel Weiner

rabidfurby

  • Guest
Re: If we had open borders ...
« Reply #107 on: March 21, 2008, 02:11:17 AM »

raping someone or molesting a child

What percentage of rapes and child molestations are done by immigrants, whether legal or illegal?
Logged

markuzick

  • Atheist Pro-Lifer
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1876
  • Dr. Montessori: Discipline through liberty
    • View Profile
Re: If we had open borders ...
« Reply #108 on: March 21, 2008, 02:27:58 AM »

i think this thread is debating an outdated version of the issue - it has gone far beyond this simple concept of a guy sneaking across once and becoming a mooch. so lets start with some recent problems..

so lets say the unauthorized immigrant came across and had his chance at success - but that he raped someone and got arrested and deported for his crime.

what should we do with the same guy when he sneaks across the border for the 2nd or 3rd time? once he has been convicted of raping someone or molesting a child- all we're gonna do is drop him off at the border and hope to catch him next time?

news vid on the topic from AZ:
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=65874#comment-245674

Maybe he should have been jailed or castrated in the first place, but definitely after the second crossing.
Logged
As the state feeds off of the limitation and destruction of legitimate government, anarchy is its essence.

To claim "economic rent" from someone Else's labor when applied to land, which is something no one can own outright, is in itself, to claim landlord status over raw nature. It is an attempt at coercive monopoly power that is at the root of statism.

hellbilly

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6664
  • Pogue Mahone.
    • View Profile
Re: If we had open borders ...
« Reply #109 on: March 21, 2008, 07:05:22 PM »

raping someone or molesting a child

What percentage of rapes and child molestations are done by immigrants, whether legal or illegal?

how the fuck would i know, im not a border/immigration agent. and what does it matter? what percentage constitutes a concern for you? how many is not a concern, and thus acceptable?

but, if you had watched the video you would have heard the number 400.
Logged
Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

"We are profoundly dissatisfied with pretty much everything but we canít articulate why, and are unable to offer any viable alternative." - Nathaniel Weiner

Alex Libman

  • Guest
Re: If we had open borders ...
« Reply #110 on: May 27, 2008, 01:25:40 PM »

Sorry. That was too funny to ignore. Don't bother to call me. I'll call you in the future should I need you for a re-audition to fill a position on my ignore list. (Hint: Next time don't make jokes. You're too good at it. Try debating instead. You really suck at that!)

NEEEEEXT!

Too many immigrants would come here waving Che Guevara banners, call us thieves for being rich, and liberate our wealth through force because they have more of a stomach for a fight and less to lose than an average American.  Heck, the average American is half-way brainwashed into socialism (that is "liberal democracy") already!
Logged

markuzick

  • Atheist Pro-Lifer
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1876
  • Dr. Montessori: Discipline through liberty
    • View Profile
Re: If we had open borders ...
« Reply #111 on: May 28, 2008, 05:14:29 AM »

Sorry. That was too funny to ignore. Don't bother to call me. I'll call you in the future should I need you for a re-audition to fill a position on my ignore list. (Hint: Next time don't make jokes. You're too good at it. Try debating instead. You really suck at that!)

NEEEEEXT!

Too many immigrants would come here waving Che Guevara banners, call us thieves for being rich, and liberate our wealth through force because they have more of a stomach for a fight and less to lose than an average American.  Heck, the average American is half-way brainwashed into socialism (that is "liberal democracy") already!


Ah Ha! An excellent example of yourself at your suckiest, but you're too good a straw man bigot against which I can practice my rhetoric for me to simply ignore you. That's two strikes!

NEEEEEXT!
Logged
As the state feeds off of the limitation and destruction of legitimate government, anarchy is its essence.

To claim "economic rent" from someone Else's labor when applied to land, which is something no one can own outright, is in itself, to claim landlord status over raw nature. It is an attempt at coercive monopoly power that is at the root of statism.

Alex Libman

  • Guest
Re: If we had open borders ...
« Reply #112 on: May 28, 2008, 07:04:58 AM »

I myself am convinced that we need a gradual and pragmatic approach to opening the borders, which might even include a "North American Union".  I cannot climb into your brain and see what major malfunction is causing your fanatical idealism.  "Open borders or bust, even if that means the end of capitalism as we know it!"  Well, I hope your stupidity hurts no one but yourself.
Logged

markuzick

  • Atheist Pro-Lifer
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1876
  • Dr. Montessori: Discipline through liberty
    • View Profile
Re: If we had open borders ...
« Reply #113 on: May 28, 2008, 08:12:21 AM »

I myself am convinced that we need a gradual and pragmatic approach to opening the borders, which might even include a "North American Union".  I cannot climb into your brain and see what major malfunction is causing your fanatical idealism.  "Open borders or bust, even if that means the end of capitalism as we know it!"  Well, I hope your stupidity hurts no one but yourself.


My approach is gradual and pragmatic. The government should open the borders while outlawing all aliens from participating in state run health, education or welfare schemes and ending naturalized citizenship. Then we can watch as the best self motivated and ambitious people, both rich and poor, gradually populate this land, making it, once again, the greatest, richest and freest place on earth, while keeping our best people free of the corrupting temptation of using the state to cater to their special interests.

And: No Alex, my faith in liberty is not stupid. Your faith in socialism is stupid. We don't need socialism to save capitalism from itself.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 08:20:19 AM by markuzick »
Logged
As the state feeds off of the limitation and destruction of legitimate government, anarchy is its essence.

To claim "economic rent" from someone Else's labor when applied to land, which is something no one can own outright, is in itself, to claim landlord status over raw nature. It is an attempt at coercive monopoly power that is at the root of statism.

Alex Libman

  • Guest
Re: If we had open borders ...
« Reply #114 on: May 28, 2008, 08:27:16 AM »

I'm done here.
Logged

Alex Libman 15

  • Guest
Re: If we had open borders ...
« Reply #115 on: October 05, 2009, 05:31:12 AM »

[youtube=425,350]l7qKD-Ph7ds[/youtube]

 :lol:
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8]   Go Up
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  The Polling Pit
| | |-+  If we had open borders ...

// ]]>

Page created in 0.023 seconds with 37 queries.