I have a question.

Yes

9 (40.9%)

No

8 (36.4%)

Other (Please include a post with this vote)

5 (22.7%)

Total Members Voted: 11

[Lindsey]

There is a bit more to this question as well.  I have a friend who claims to align themselves with the system of Libertarian beliefs, yet my friend and their spouse have received Social Security and other benefits in lieu of employment, as well as advocating the state's involvement in not only criminal (i.e. sexual crimes) cases, but in child custody cases as well.  I feel that this conflicts with a sort of Libertarian belief system.  I'm not totally on par because I'm pretty much on the Ian end of extreme reasoning as far as politics seem to concern.  I would very much like it if you all shared your thoughts on this subject with me. 

[BonerJoe]

As far as Social Security goes, why not get back what they've stolen?

[Lindsey]

As far as Social Security goes, why not get back what they've stolen?

One would have to work for it to be their stolen money. 

[BonerJoe]

As far as Social Security goes, why not get back what they've stolen?

One would have to work for it to be their stolen money. 

Well then, fuck 'em.

[Lindsey]

I mean, I can't totally stand on a soapbox with the Social Security issue.  When my dad died, I received his social security payments, but only because I was a minor and my mother accepted for me.  I never even was able to see where it all went.  And it stopped when I graduated high school.  By then I was working full-time.   

[voodoo]

As far as Social Security goes, why not get back what they've stolen?

One would have to work for it to be their stolen money. 

How can they claim SSI without any SSI payments?  Even unemployment requires at least a one-time employment.  Are they both collecting, from birth, disability?

[Lindsey]

As far as Social Security goes, why not get back what they've stolen?

One would have to work for it to be their stolen money. 

How can they claim SSI without any SSI payments?  Even unemployment requires at least a one-time employment.  Are they both collecting, from birth, disability?

Not sure for how long.  "Disability", yes. 

[Taors]

My friend Lee considers himself a libertarian and he recently got on welfare ($1,200 a month). He won a house in an online contest, and he two fucking touch-screen monitors, a big screen television, a PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, and every game you can imagine for all three, and he has a fucking jacuzzi AND bar.

Incidentally, my friend Kyle who works at McDonald's, actually has to pay indirectly for Lee's welfare. Once he figured this out he was pretty pissed...Lee makes about twice as much as him in a month off of welfare.

[BonerJoe]

My friend Lee considers himself a libertarian and he recently got on welfare ($1,200 a month).

Well, I wouldn't exactly call him...sane. So can you really blame him for thinking he's not initiating force?

[Taors]

My friend Lee considers himself a libertarian and he recently got on welfare ($1,200 a month).

Well, I wouldn't exactly call him...sane. So can you really blame him for thinking he's not initiating force?

No, he knows he is. He has told me this specifically.

[BonerJoe]

My friend Lee considers himself a libertarian and he recently got on welfare ($1,200 a month).

Well, I wouldn't exactly call him...sane. So can you really blame him for thinking he's not initiating force?

No, he knows he is. He has told me this specifically.

Whatever, he's still wrong.

[Lindsey]

For me, it sort of goes back to root principles I guess.  The rest of us are paying in to Social Security  (well, a lot of us), and I don't feel that it is right or just for two individuals to claim disability (when said disabilities are not physical) and the rest of us to support them almost entirely. 

I guess some people could come back and say that we should stop paying taxes, yada yada yada.  And while I agree, I don't particularly want to end up like Ed and Elaine Brown.  That seems to be my breaking point in this whole game.  While I admire the courage people like the Browns, the Kannings, and Lauren Canario have, I feel that it would be a waste of my time and efforts to get thrown in to prison, or locked in to my home with armed guards outside because I defied the law to prove a point.  I think I would rather enjoy what freedoms I do have. 

[Laetitia]

I think it's possible, but that's only because the gov't system is fucked up.

My mother is receives SS Disability, as she is only able to work to a fraction of her former capacity, after multiple surgeries to remove brain & spinal tumors. She doesn't like it, but the government has taken away her options. For years, she was a responsible individual who purchased disability insurance through work, in addition to the regular percentage taken by the federal government. Her retirement savings were the nest egg; the disability plan the emergency backup. As it should be.

She wasn't able to work full time after the first round of surgeries and chemo, but the disability insurer worked with her to keep her income steady during the part-time return to work. After a year or so, she was back. No problem, everyone happy.

Round two - She was unable to back to work at all for a while. Social Security steps in, and the disability insurer only pays the amount between what SSA pays, and her set percentage. Everything is still fine, until Mom wanted to go back to work. The SSA, not the disability insurer, has requirements. She can't do the same job part time which she used to do full time. She can't work over a set amount. She cannot make more than a set amount. If she goes over set amount, SSA stops paying. At this point, the disability insurance could kick back in, to make up the difference like when she first became ill, wouldn't you think? Not so. Against the rules. She'd lose everything.

If anything, her dealings with this over the last 10-15 years have made her more receptive to liberty, especially in financial matters. She's still a right wing conservative on the moral issues, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. But it's a start.

[miamiballoonguy]

My friend Lee considers himself a libertarian and he recently got on welfare ($1,200 a month). He won a house in an online contest, and he two fucking touch-screen monitors, a big screen television, a PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, and every game you can imagine for all three, and he has a fucking jacuzzi AND bar.

Incidentally, my friend Kyle who works at McDonald's, actually has to pay indirectly for Lee's welfare. Once he figured this out he was pretty pissed...Lee makes about twice as much as him in a month off of welfare.

Lee should be publicly flogged.  No self respecting libertarian would get on welfare.  If he gets on welfare, take away his libertarian card and call him a socialist.

[Taors]

I dunno.