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Free Talk Live => The Polling Pit => Topic started by: SaintLucifer on November 01, 2006, 01:53:03 AM

Title: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: SaintLucifer on November 01, 2006, 01:53:03 AM
  Please take part in my poll. As a fascist, I am most curious to see how people vote. I wish to see how much of a chance one such as myself has for swaying you all over to my side. I abhor libertarians as much as I do communists (are the two truly different?).

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Nazi_Swastika.svg/200px-Nazi_Swastika.svg.png)
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: ladyattis on November 01, 2006, 02:01:30 AM
Can you explain why the State is the primary when without people it does not exist?

The same for color, the mind, [human] morality, Oprah, and etc.

Basically, you need to prove the State pre-exists the person, if it does not then it's not a primary. Q.E.D.

-- Bridget
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: SaintLucifer on November 01, 2006, 02:09:17 AM
Can you explain why the State is the primary when without people it does not exist?

The same for color, the mind, [human] morality, Oprah, and etc.

Basically, you need to prove the State pre-exists the person, if it does not then it's not a primary. Q.E.D.

-- Bridget

  What are the people without the State? Anarchists, which is you. You and yours are the very symbol of chaos.

  "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
  “Democracy is beautiful in theory; in practice it is a fallacy”
  “Every anarchist is a baffled dictator”
  “It is the State which educates its citizens in civic virtue, gives them a consciousness of their mission and welds them into unity”
   
   Next time you lose your job due to downsizing, try not to think about the State and never demand access to unemployment insurance, lest you become a fucking hypocrite. If you are injured and need to survive, do not look to the State for according to your very own post, it does not exist. Take care of yourself. Do not look to the State to build the very roads you travel. Do not look to the State to educate your children. The State does not exist to you. You are therefore on your own bitch. Go back to sucking the cocks of your anarchist motherfuckers.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Nazi_Swastika.svg/200px-Nazi_Swastika.svg.png)

 
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: ladyattis on November 01, 2006, 02:18:11 AM
What are the people without the State?
Tourists?

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Anarchists, which is you. You and yours are the very symbol of chaos.
Wrong again, anarchy simply means no rulers, but I'm not an anarchist, I just don't believe the state is the center of all human functions.

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"All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
  “Democracy is beautiful in theory; in practice it is a fallacy”
  “Every anarchist is a baffled dictator”
  “It is the State which educates its citizens in civic virtue, gives them a consciousness of their mission and welds them into unity”
That's sorta fucking stupid to quote since neither have you referenced who said them, nor have you went up to explain them to make your case. I can quote my neighbors, they all seem to speak rather elegantly and shit, but that doesn't make whatever they may say to be true. To make something true it must have facts to back it up.

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Next time you lose your job due to downsizing, try not to think about the State and never demand access to unemployment insurance, lest you become a fucking hypocrite.
I can't, because I never paid into it, asshole. If you don't know in the US, unemployment insurance must be applied for, it is not automatically withheld. Also, there are exemptions, such as part-time workers, farm workers, and service industry workers. I happen to be a part-time service industry worker, ergo no unemployment insurance.

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If you are injured and need to survive, do not look to the State for according to your very own post, it does not exist.
If I get injured, I got friends to help me, duh. Also, many charity orgs have actually helped me with hospital bills. In this case, I broke my arm last year and I got a cast and everything, no charge.

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Take care of yourself. Do not look to the State to build the very roads you travel.
The roads were built by people, the State did nothing. The state is simply the confluence of individuals as you seem to fail to understand that. Next, you'll say the Ocean made the water it is made of.
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: SaintLucifer on November 01, 2006, 02:36:21 AM
What are the people without the State?
Tourists?

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Anarchists, which is you. You and yours are the very symbol of chaos.
Wrong again, anarchy simply means no rulers, but I'm not an anarchist, I just don't believe the state is the center of all human functions.

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"All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
  “Democracy is beautiful in theory; in practice it is a fallacy”
  “Every anarchist is a baffled dictator”
  “It is the State which educates its citizens in civic virtue, gives them a consciousness of their mission and welds them into unity”
That's sorta fucking stupid to quote since neither have you referenced who said them, nor have you went up to explain them to make your case. I can quote my neighbors, they all seem to speak rather elegantly and shit, but that doesn't make whatever they may say to be true. To make something true it must have facts to back it up.

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Next time you lose your job due to downsizing, try not to think about the State and never demand access to unemployment insurance, lest you become a fucking hypocrite.
I can't, because I never paid into it, asshole. If you don't know in the US, unemployment insurance must be applied for, it is not automatically withheld. Also, there are exemptions, such as part-time workers, farm workers, and service industry workers. I happen to be a part-time service industry worker, ergo no unemployment insurance.

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If you are injured and need to survive, do not look to the State for according to your very own post, it does not exist.
If I get injured, I got friends to help me, duh. Also, many charity orgs have actually helped me with hospital bills. In this case, I broke my arm last year and I got a cast and everything, no charge.

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Take care of yourself. Do not look to the State to build the very roads you travel.
The roads were built by people, the State did nothing. The state is simply the confluence of individuals as you seem to fail to understand that. Next, you'll say the Ocean made the water it is made of.


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I can't, because I never paid into it, asshole.

   Of course you did you stupid fuck. What do you think all those deductions are for? The office Christmas party? Your taxes pay for those. Now you are telling me that you are willing to turn down those services you pay for because they are against your libertarian beliefs?

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If I get injured, I got friends to help me, duh. Also, many charity orgs have actually helped me with hospital bills. In this case, I broke my arm last year and I got a cast and everything, no charge.

  Fucking hypocrite. You demand no allegiance to any State, yet you are more than willing to take charity from strangers. What do you think receiving funds from the State is you dumb shit? You are clearly no different from a would-be fascist. The only difference is the method, although the source is identical. This is what makes a fascist like me laugh. You claim you are different, yet you are not. Your form of government is no different from the one you have today. I challenge you to prove otherwise.

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The roads were built by people, the State did nothing. The state is simply the confluence of individuals as you seem to fail to understand that. Next, you'll say the Ocean made the water it is made of.

   So you went out personally and built the roads? You contacted various construction companies and said 'here's $2 million dollars. I want you to construct a new 2 km stretch of road here'? You speak of a confluence of individuals. What the fuck do you think libertarianism is? Does not your ideology seek to hire out construction companies to build the roads for you? How is this any different from the State? The only thing you have done is cut out the middleman. Would this improve efficiency? If so, how? Do you know anything about roads? Do you know the best locations for roads? The State knows all of this. You, as an individual, do not. How, in your libertarian ways, are you going to get others to agree that perhaps this is the best location for a road or that location? How are you going to agree on the best corporation to deal with to build your roads? How will you ensure the new roads comply with traffic standards? Oh wait, you HAVE no traffic standards because you have no State to set them. You libertarian fucks will squabble amongst yourselves over which would be the best standards. You have removed order and replaced it with chaos, all in the mistaken belief you have given yourselves more freedom. Yes, the freedom to fuck up. Anarchism will reign. You do understand I mean to say chaos will reign yes? Libertarianism is nothing more than a group of individuals squabbling over who gets what, who should pay for what.

   Under my fascist reign, the people hand me, the State, the fucking money whereupon I decide (after consultation with road experts) where the roads shall go, I will determine how much the construction will cost, not the fucking corporation. I will tell them you will do the roads for this much or fuck off. I am the State, you do whatever the fuck I tell you. Be glad I am not making you my bitches and paying you fuck all. I would have every single city in Canada connected via new high-speed roadways whilst you libertarian fucks are still diddling each other before whining about the best way to deal with things.

   You libertarian fucks whine about government squabbling in your House of Representatives? Fuck that. It would be a fucking minor skirmish compared to the squabbling that would go on if libertarians ran the show.

   Tell me, in your libertarian utopia, who is going to be the one to call the shots? Do you seriously think human nature will allow the 'we all share equal responsibility' bullshit? You must be fucking kidding me. It is due to human nature that communism failed. Libertarianism will fail for the very same reason. The ideology is a fucking joke and should be forcefully suppressed as an ideal fit for nutcases.



Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: libertylover on November 01, 2006, 03:04:09 AM
Hey look Brokor is back  :D
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: error on November 01, 2006, 04:29:24 AM
I've never been so tempted to hit the ignore button.
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: lapafrax on November 01, 2006, 05:29:31 AM
I'd rather fuck a fit woman than libertarianism.  :lol:
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: error on November 01, 2006, 05:39:45 AM
Yes, I see that now. :)
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: ladyattis on November 01, 2006, 08:46:42 AM
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I can't, because I never paid into it, asshole.

   Of course you did you stupid fuck. What do you think all those deductions are for? The office Christmas party? Your taxes pay for those. Now you are telling me that you are willing to turn down those services you pay for because they are against your libertarian beliefs?

Asshole, in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE IS NOT COMPULSORY, do you understand? YOU HAVE TO CHECK THE 800-NUMBER TO START THE DEDUCTION PROCESS. Lets see a regular breakdown of a paycheck... First, federal income tax is deducted. Second, SSI is deducted. Third, possible state income tax [most states have it]. And finally, extraneous taxes that cover other shit, but unemployment isn't there by default. Now, unless you got a USC citation or have ever worked in the states, anything you say to the contrary without evidence is fucking wrong.

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Fucking hypocrite. You demand no allegiance to any State, yet you are more than willing to take charity from strangers. What do you think receiving funds from the State is you dumb shit? You are clearly no different from a would-be fascist. The only difference is the method, although the source is identical. This is what makes a fascist like me laugh.
Bullshit, facism requires the state to be the arbitor of all human activity, a charity is not of the state and it's VOLUNTARY. So, if charity A doesn't like me, they don't have to fucking deal with me. And their funding sources don't come from uncooperative non-consenting individuals.

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You claim you are different, yet you are not. Your form of government is no different from the one you have today. I challenge you to prove otherwise.
It's different in that it operates to do two functions and no more; common defense and general welfare [THE LEGAL SYSTEM].

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So you went out personally and built the roads? You contacted various construction companies and said 'here's $2 million dollars. I want you to construct a new 2 km stretch of road here'? You speak of a confluence of individuals. What the fuck do you think libertarianism is? Does not your ideology seek to hire out construction companies to build the roads for you?
Asshole, the state already does this, it's called CONTRACTING.

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How is this any different from the State?
I don't steal my money to pay for the road?

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The only thing you have done is cut out the middleman.
Exact-o-mundo, dumbass, and REDUCED THE COST. I don't think you ever went to business calculus have you?


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Would this improve efficiency? If so, how?
Yes, by allowing more civil liability for any contractor and the contractee. This makes the business more 'put up or shutup' instead of 'whenever I feel like it', when you got a man by his pocket book it hurts more than when you got him by his balls, that's if you ever asked a married man, and the same follows in business.

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Do you know anything about roads?
Yes.

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Do you know the best locations for roads?
Where they don't lead to you.

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The State knows all of this.
No, because the state does not have a mind, memory, brain, limbic system, and/or independent existence from the individuals that compose it. If you knew that, then you wouldn't be making such fallacious arguments, but you don't so continue being a fool, it's fun to see you do this.

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You, as an individual, do not. How, in your libertarian ways, are you going to get others to agree that perhaps this is the best location for a road or that location?
I don't have to agree if I buy their land fair and square.
 
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How are you going to agree on the best corporation to deal with to build your roads?
Insured contracting? Bueller? Bueller?
 
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How will you ensure the new roads comply with traffic standards?
Engineers, asshole, engineers.

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Oh wait, you HAVE no traffic standards because you have no State to set them.
Good, I may be a minarchist, but if anarchy meant no assholes like you to worry about, I think I could be convinced.
 
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You libertarian fucks will squabble amongst yourselves over which would be the best standards.
Like engineers, scientists, philosophers, ethicists and the rest of the world? Yes, and that's how you get to the truth of things. Truth doesn't come from on high from a god, or rest on some pedestal in far away land.

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You have removed order and replaced it with chaos, all in the mistaken belief you have given yourselves more freedom.
Order without change, without discourse, and without the ability to learn is not better than chaos, it's worse. Atleast in chaos you can change things for the better, in unyielding order you cannot.
 
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Yes, the freedom to fuck up. Anarchism will reign.
The word is anarchy, anarchism is the belief system, but you're also misuing anarchy to say chaos. Anarchy is not chaos, anarchy is WITHOUT RULES as ATHEIST is WITHOUT GOD. I suggest you take a course in etymology, then you would know this.

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You do understand I mean to say chaos will reign yes?
Pet rocks? Fake tits? and Star Trek? Yes, all good in my opinion.


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Libertarianism is nothing more than a group of individuals squabbling over who gets what, who should pay for what.
Like science? OH NOES! PROGRESS WITHOUT A LEADER IS BAD! ... NOT!

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Under my fascist reign
1. Only in your dreams, small pecker boy. 2. It's FACIST, NOT FASCIST, asshole. Fucking learn how to spell. Did your public EDUMUNCATION teach yous how to spell that way? LOL!

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Tell me, in your libertarian utopia, who is going to be the one to call the shots?
Hopefully sexy female robots like in the new Battlestar Galactica.


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Do you seriously think human nature will allow the 'we all share equal responsibility' bullshit?
There is no equal anything. Either you are responsible or you are not. You can try to evade it, but all you do is wind up fucking up your own world.


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You must be fucking kidding me. It is due to human nature that communism failed. Libertarianism will fail for the very same reason. The ideology is a fucking joke and should be forcefully suppressed as an ideal fit for nutcases.
So, we're all sinners and evil people huh? Lets think about this one because this is where your argument dies instantly.

1) According to you we need a strong-man government dictatorship where one person is ruling everyone because they're all evil and what not.

2) But all people, including that person, are human, thus are evil by your admission.

3) If all people, including said tyrant person, are human, then all of them are evil.

4) Thus, the dictator is just as evil as the people he was selected from.

5) Therefore, you're saying we need an evil man to lead evil people? That doesn't fucking work, it's a circular argument. Especially, when you're saying people are bad evil and then you want a person of said bad evil population to lead with the same bad evil mentality. How do you expect to stop this logic loop? Jesus? God? LOL!

-- Bridget
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: Trademark on November 01, 2006, 11:21:52 AM
SaintLucifer, you could not provoke a raddlesnake! You are a fucking Idiot. I am glad you come around, because you make me look good, and that is not a good thing.  :lol:
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: velojym on November 01, 2006, 11:23:21 AM
Wow. Devil's Advocate brought to an extreme.
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: Trademark on November 01, 2006, 11:27:56 AM
Wow. Devil's Advocate brought to an extreme.

  :lol:  :lol:

Who the hell reads a block of read text anyway?
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: Porcupine_in_MA on November 01, 2006, 11:32:43 AM
Saint Lucifer if one of my favorite trolls.  :lol: Pure entertainment.
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: Porcupine_in_MA on November 01, 2006, 11:34:25 AM
I think I might need to vote Fuck yes bring on the SS not only to be contrarian but it rhymes.
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: mrapplecastle on November 01, 2006, 12:33:58 PM
i would like to be able to change my vote to fuck yess
will the fascist ruler allow me to change it?
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: Johnny_ on November 05, 2006, 09:31:54 PM
(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8701/troll3oh.jpg)
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: gandhi2 on November 05, 2006, 10:38:49 PM
Has anybody seen the movie SLC Punk with Matthew Lillard?  This guy reminds me of that for some odd reason.  Oh, wait...it's the lack of logic and screaming voice.
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: gandhi2 on November 05, 2006, 10:40:26 PM
i would like to be able to change my vote to fuck yess
will the fascist ruler allow me to change it?

Yeah, me too, me too!  The clarity in his argument is so delightfully appealing!  Hallelujah, I have seen The LIGHT!!!
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: ladyattis on November 06, 2006, 09:29:50 AM
i would like to be able to change my vote to fuck yess
will the fascist ruler allow me to change it?

Yeah, me too, me too!  The clarity in his argument is so delightfully appealing!  Hallelujah, I have seen The LIGHT!!!

Don't forget to apply for your Hitler china dinner set and Fascist party action figure [collector's addition]. ^_^

-- Bridget
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: Rebel on November 06, 2006, 04:17:25 PM
St. Lunatic?
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: lapafrax on November 06, 2006, 04:48:43 PM
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  Under my fascist reign, the people hand me, the State, the fucking money whereupon I decide (after consultation with road experts) where the roads shall go, I will determine how much the construction will cost, not the fucking corporation.

"Your" reign?!  Shit, I bet you masturbate over pictures of Mussolini or something.
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I will tell them you will do the roads for this much or fuck off. I am the State, you do whatever the fuck I tell you.

Oh yeah, and what the fuck gives you that power?  What makes ANY one person SO more intelligent or skilled to assume rule over others?  No person on this Earth has such God-like wisdom, insight or foresight.

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Be glad I am not making you my bitches and paying you fuck all. I would have every single city in Canada connected via new high-speed roadways whilst you libertarian fucks are still diddling each other before whining about the best way to deal with things.

You know what?  Leave it to the market.  Yep, get the state the fuck out of there.

If a road needs to be built between Ottawa and Toronto, then let the MARKET handle it.  Shit, Ottawa is the capital!  Toronto is the major economic hub!  So naturally there is DEMAND, from both industry and the consumer, for transport links.  You don't need some little Mussolini to figure that out! 

Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: Porcupine_in_MA on November 06, 2006, 05:00:27 PM
Okay Lapafrax, you do realize you are not supposed to take Mr. St. Lucifer seriously right?
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: CrimethInc on November 30, 2006, 09:39:05 PM


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Oh wait, you HAVE no traffic standards because you have no State to set them.
Good, I may be a minarchist, but if anarchy meant no assholes like you to worry about, I think I could be convinced.

-- Bridget

In an anarchist society, there would still be people exactly like this guy, however, no one would listen to him. He'd just be "That crazy guy" who no one would deal with and everyone would ignore. Eventually, after having enough of everyone ignoring him, he'd start to see why everyone is ignoring him, then he'd see how well everyone else is working together, then he'd want to work with everyone else and abandon his prior belief's in favor of more constructive (and also self serving, I might add) attitude because by working within his community, he would not only be helping other members of the community, but would be helping himself in that no one would be avoiding him at all costs...
Title: Re: Fuck Libertarianism?
Post by: CrimethInc on November 30, 2006, 09:48:46 PM

You must be fucking kidding me. It is due to human nature that communism failed. Libertarianism will fail for the very same reason. The ideology is a fucking joke and should be forcefully suppressed as an ideal fit for nutcases.

True communism has never been tried. Totalitarian dictatoriships who call themselves "communist" fail because first of all, the state is involved, and secondly, said state is run by a single power hungry person. I think a lot of Libertarian ideals are great things to work towards, however, I don't agree with all of them. That being said, having the option of a libertarian society versus your "fascist" society, I think most people would choose the first.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating communism, nor do I believe or call myself a communist, however, the "governments" who claim to be "communist" are not communist at all. Just as anarchy is not chaos, as the "elite" would have you believe.