FSP opinions.

The FSP is our best shot. I have moved or am planning to move at some point.

28 (53.8%)

The FSP is important, but I am not interested in joining/moving to new hampshire any time soon.

8 (15.4%)

The FSP is an okay idea but I don't think it will work and I have no intention of joining or funding it.

4 (7.7%)

The FSP will fail. It's a waste of time/diversion.

6 (11.5%)

Other

6 (11.5%)

Total Members Voted: 30

[sillyperson]

Kaze is Blackie/Prez/Sniper/John/MoneyD
Just a hunch.

[jimmed]

Kaze is Blackie/Prez/Sniper/John/MoneyD
Just a hunch.

Blackie is still Blackie.

[MobileDigit]

The People of Nevada.

Why do you think they have a better chance?

They have approved more freedom then any other state so far. Seems like they're in the lead to me.

I've thought about it, and I've come to the conclusion that it's the principle of the thing. I don't think a free society will be achieved without an outside influence, and I think the best chance for that is the Free State Project. Whether they have some more freedoms now is irrelevant if they are not on the path to liberty. That's what it comes down to, for me at least.

Isn't a defunct FTP better than nothing?

No, because that means it has failed and discourages anyone else from trying.

I think Grafton has a higher than normal percentage of FSP members. So it hasn't totally failed.

Kaze is Blackie/Prez/Sniper/John/MoneyD
Just a hunch.

I think it's Taors.

[jimmed]

I've thought about it, and I've come to the conclusion that it's the principle of the thing.

If you're going to stick to principles over practicality, then you've already lost. Principles don't mean shit in a state where people consistently vote to take away more of your rights. I want as much freedom as I can get NOW.

I think Grafton has a higher than normal percentage of FSP members. So it hasn't totally failed.

So does Keene. 5 people out of 1000 in Grafton and 20 people in 20000 in Keene aren't gonna do shit.

[SamR]

I don't think we need 20,000 or even 10,000. Most people are figuring that 2,000 will be enough, and maybe half that. There were 1,031 signers for the First 1,000 and already 21 on the Next 1,000. If the number of signers at the fsp site and on Next 1,000 keep going up at the current rate, we should have 2,000 by the next presidential primary.

[jimmed]

I don't think we need 20,000 or even 10,000. Most people are figuring that 2,000 will be enough, and maybe half that. There were 1,031 signers for the First 1,000 and already 21 on the Next 1,000. If the number of signers at the fsp site and on Next 1,000 keep going up at the current rate, we should have 2,000 by the next presidential primary.

Can you even absolutely confirm you have 500 people moved there? How many of those are activists, 25? So If you get 2000 people moved there, eventually, how are 100 activists gonna make a difference in a state of over a million? Gonna suicide bomb the legislature?

How's that smoking ban?

[MobileDigit]

If you're going to stick to principles over practicality, then you've already lost.

I think my argument holds:
1. Goal: Free society.
2. Achieving the goal requires an increase in the concentration of liberty activists.
3. The FSP is the best chance for #2.
4. Therefore, NH wins over Nevada.

I understand you have a slightly different goal than me, but I don't think that makes my argument incorrect.

Principles don't mean shit in a state where people consistently vote to take away more of your rights.

I don't think that changes just because you move to NV.

I want as much freedom as I can get NOW.

I have a different goal. I want to establish a free society in my lifetime. If that means I have to work to get it, so be it. I think it's worth it.

So does Keene. 5 people out of 1000 in Grafton and 20 people in 20000 in Keene aren't gonna do shit.

You're probably right. But I disagree that NV has a better chance. I think if we are fucked either way, we may as well give NH a shot.

[jimmed]

3. The FSP is the best chance for #2.
4. Therefore, NH wins over Nevada.

If 1000 liberty activists, not just MOVERS, moved to Nevada independent of the FSP would you reconsider?[/quote]

I think if we are fucked either way, we may as well give NH a shot.

That's like sinking the rest of your life savings into a losing horse because "I'm fucked anyways". Some people know when to cut and run, some people go down with the sinking ship over principle. I am not a lemming.

[MobileDigit]

If 1000 liberty activists, not just MOVERS, moved to Nevada independent of the FSP would you reconsider?

Absolutely. I think people should move to wherever they think is best. If they think NV has a better chance, I've got no problem with that. In my opinion step number one is concentrating liberty activists, and NH seems to be doing better than NV at that. That's what it comes down to for me.

I think if we are fucked either way, we may as well give NH a shot.

That's like sinking the rest of your life savings into a losing horse because "I'm fucked anyways". Some people know when to cut and run, some people go down with the sinking ship over principle. I am not a lemming.

Actually the proposition is this:
1. If NV cannot achieve a free society;
2. and NH has the possibility;
3. then NH wins.

If NH does not have that possibility, then I would agree with you: freedom lovers should go to wherever is currently the freest. I think it does have the possibility though, and so NH wins.

[AntonLee]

If the FSP up and moves to Nevada, you can count me in for your celebrations such as PorcFest, but once I'm in NH, I'm staying in NH.

for life. . . I love the state, and it's been my dream to move there since I was a kid.  A nice house in the mountains, with a barn, some electricity from solar panels/generator/wind turbine. . . I'll be set.

but I love the fact that Ron did good in Nevada and Montana.

[SamR]

NH hasn't been winning for everyone. There are lots of people who can't or won't come up. NV was never given a chance, anyway, because the board excluded the state from the vote. If someone can't or won't move to NH for whatever reason, maybe we should just have an alternate out there. Some people started movements in MT and WY, but they never got the mandate of a vote, so they just started moving.

Discussion a potential second state could also bring in some more attention for NH. The more activists we have nationwide, the better chance we'll have to make some impact on national government. Four US Reps and four US Senators would have to answer to liberty voters.

[AntonLee]

we might as well just have everyone stay in all 50 states and every country worldwide.  Doing lots of good that way too.

[DogOn]

NH hasn't been winning for everyone. There are lots of people who can't or won't come up. NV was never given a chance, anyway, because the board excluded the state from the vote. If someone can't or won't move to NH for whatever reason, maybe we should just have an alternate out there. Some people started movements in MT and WY, but they never got the mandate of a vote, so they just started moving.

Discussion a potential second state could also bring in some more attention for NH. The more activists we have nationwide, the better chance we'll have to make some impact on national government. Four US Reps and four US Senators would have to answer to liberty voters.

I want as many liberty groups, free state projects, whatever as possible. Anyone doing anything to help liberty has my total support. I might suggest ways i think might be better, but I'm still extremely grateful that they're getting off their ass and doing anything at all, rather than just being cynical and taking the easy position of, nothings going to get better so im not even going to try.

I'm not particularly arguing against people who don't think NH is the best place for the FSP. I mean i think it is, but if you think theres a better state, i don't want you to do something you don't believe in just because i say, its just the, "things are bad now, i dont think they're going to get better so im going to wait until it falls into my lap" attitude that i don't like.

So far all the people who are so certain the NH FSP will fail, haven't been advertising their NV FSP or any other freedom helping idea. I don't know what it is but some people seem to enjoy just pissing on other peoples bonfires without actually suggesting or doing anything better. If they were disagreeing because they genuinely thought they had a better idea to achieve liberty, they'd be putting some effort into achieving their goal, instead of just being crotchety and insulting on an internet forum.

I'm sorry, if you think waiting for things to get better is going to do more than the NH FSP, whatever disagreements you have with it, you're delusional and I'm ashamed to be counted in the same group as you.

[jimmed]

we might as well just have everyone stay in all 50 states and every country worldwide.  Doing lots of good that way too.

Wank wank wank.

[jimmed]

Discussion a potential second state could also bring in some more attention for NH.