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Free Talk Live => The Polling Pit => Topic started by: Alex Libman on August 08, 2008, 12:07:38 PM

Title: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman on August 08, 2008, 12:07:38 PM
[youtube=425,350]l-lCS3FK0X4[/youtube]

...
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: atomiccat on August 08, 2008, 12:40:22 PM
They have a 15 million dollar economy ? they probably spent more then 15 million just bombing them... oooo the idiocy of governments
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Taors on August 08, 2008, 12:42:28 PM
They should do what they want.
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman on August 08, 2008, 12:50:42 PM
The screwed up thing is that Russia is the good guys here, joining them is what South Ossetia wants.  No wonder, Russia's GDP per capita is currently three times Georgia's, and thanks to Russia's natural resources that won't change very soon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_future_GDP_per_capita_estimates_(PPP)).  I'm sure Putin has bribed those poor and desperate people with stability and jobs...
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: hellbilly on August 08, 2008, 06:58:17 PM
If they want to join Russia, let them join Russia.
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Russell Griswold on August 08, 2008, 08:13:20 PM
This reminds me of the 1990's situation in Abkhazia. At the time I was visiting my relatives in Gagra and I remember leaving with tanks rolling behind our bus. Seems like nothing had changed with that scummy Georgia.
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman on August 09, 2008, 01:33:45 AM
From the UK Telegraph -- Georgia: Russia enters into 'war' in South Ossetia (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2525400/Georgia-Russia-enters-into-war-in-South-Ossetia.html) --

Quote
Over 1,300 people are reported dead after Russian forces responded to a Georgian attack on rebels in the breakaway province of South Ossetia by mounting a full scale invasion.

[Visit the actual article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2525400/Georgia-Russia-enters-into-war-in-South-Ossetia.html) for embedded video, etc.]

Columns of Russian tanks plunged the two neighbours [sic] into war as they filed into South Ossetia, marking the Kremlin's first military assault on foreign soil since the Soviet Union's Afghanistan intevention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan) [sic], which ended in 1989.

Russian tanks rolled towards the capital of South Ossetia and fighters bombed Georgian air bases after Georgia launched attacks on rebels in the breakaway region. South Ossetia won de-facto independence in a war which ended in 1992 but has been a source of tension ever since, along with Abkhazia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazia), another separatist region.

Russian peacekeepers have suffered 12 dead and 150 wounded, the peacekeeping forces were quoted as saying by Russian news agencies, while over 1300 civilians are reported to have been killed.

"Now our peacekeepers are waging a fierce battle with regular forces from the Georgian army in the southern region of Tskhinvali (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tskhinvali)," a representative of the Russian force was quoted as saying by Interfax.

Reports last night claimed that Russia had started to bomb civil and economic infrastructure, including the Black Sea port of Poti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poti) and the military base at Senaki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senaki). Between 8 and 11 Russian jets reportedly hit container tanks and a shipbuilding plant at the port.

"I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars," said Lyudmila Ostayeva, 50, who had fled with her family to Dzhava, a village near the border with Russia.

"It's impossible to count them now. There is hardly a single building left undamaged."

The confrontation between the two countries deepened in April when Nato (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO) promised that Georgia would be allowed to join - although no clear timetable was offered.

The European Union was trying to secure a ceasefire in the pro-Russian enclave. The United States and the EU sent a joint delegation to the region in a bid to halt the fighting, while Nato called for an immediate end to the clashes and for direct talks between Russia and Georgia.

Any ceasefire would be unlikely to hold. Hours after President Mikheil Saakashvili (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikheil_Saakashvili) of Georgia, a devoutly pro-Western leader, declared a unilateral ceasefire on Thursday night, his forces began an artillery barrage against Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital.

The fighting broke out as much of the world's attention was focused on the start of the Olympic Games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Summer_Olympics). Many leaders, including Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin) and President George W Bush, were in Beijing watching the opening ceremony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Summer_Olympics_Opening_Ceremony).

Mr Putin declared: "War has started." Victor Dolidze, Georgia's ambassador to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_Security_and_Co-operation_in_Europe), said: "If this is not war, then I wonder what it is."

Mr Dolidze told the OSCE's permanent council in Vienna that Russian forces had been bombing Georgian territory since the morning, according to a diplomat who attended the 45-minute meeting.  Vladimir Voronkov, Russia's representative, told the assembly that "the true story is very different." He accused the Georgian side of launching a massive attack in defiance of diplomatic efforts.

As the roar of warplanes and the explosion of heavy shells sounded outside Tskhinvali, Sergei Lavrov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Lavrov), the Russian foreign minister, accused the Georgians of driving people from their homes.

"We are receiving reports that a policy of ethnic cleansing was being conducted in villages in South Ossetia, the number of refugees is climbing, the panic is growing, people are trying to save their lives," he said in televised remarks from the ministry.

Georgia, which would be hugely outnumbered in an all-out confrontation with Russia, said that it had control of the capital, but there were reports of Russian tanks on the outskirts and that Georgian forces had started to retreat.

Georgia will withdraw 1,000 soldiers from its military contingent of around 2,000 troops in Iraq to help in the fighting against South Ossetian separatist rebels, a top Georgian official said.

Georgia has asked the US military to provide aircraft to move Georgian troops home from Iraq as fighting rages in Georgia's breakaway South Ossetia region, a US military official said Friday.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called on Russia to withdraw its troops from Georgia.

"The United States calls for an immediate ceasefire to the armed conflict in Georgia's region of South Ossetia," Rice said in a statement.

"We call on Russia to cease attacks on Georgia by aircraft and missiles, respect Georgia's territorial integrity, and withdraw its ground combat forces from Georgian soil," she said.

The United States is working actively with its European allies to launch international mediation to end the crisis and senior US officials have spoken with the parties in the conflict, she added.

A spokesman for EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javier_Solana): "We repeat our message to all parties to immediately stop the violence."

In Washington, State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos said the US was sending an envoy to the region "to engage with the parties in the conflict".

Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: hellbilly on August 09, 2008, 01:41:21 AM
The US has been called in for help?

Oh great.
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: mikehz on August 09, 2008, 11:19:17 AM
Just what we need--get drawn into another war over some place no one has ever heard of.  :x

Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman on August 09, 2008, 02:27:19 PM
There's no good resolution of this.  It would be best if the conflict didn't escalate and Russia got its way...
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: hellbilly on August 09, 2008, 08:27:03 PM
Agreed. What sort of moron must the leader of Georgia be? Unless he knew he might get back up from the US..

Georgia, the size of a thimble compared to Russia, wants to wage war against the behemoth? Yeah. That makes sense.
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith) on August 10, 2008, 12:54:14 AM
The US won't mobilize troops against Russia.
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman on August 10, 2008, 04:37:18 AM
Is the I-285 joke not funny?  I loved it...  (It's a ring road around Atlanta.)
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: AntonLee on August 10, 2008, 09:34:51 AM
oh Georgia. . . Ray Charles would have been all for ya
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman on August 11, 2008, 03:27:09 AM
Here's more food for thought:

NATO's yearly military expenditures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures): $850 billion.  Russia's: $45 billion (3% of world's share).  As percent of GDP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_future_GDP_(PPP)_estimates):  Russia is 4.58% (about same as USA), Georgia is 15.90% - that's a mind-bending figure given that Russia's per-capita GDP is 3x higher!  Georgia's listed defense chunk of the budget is second only to North Korea!  And in reality it's much higher, since they're buying some stuff at deep discount and that data is a year old - it went up by like 30x over the past few years!

According to the 2008 Forbes tax misery index (http://www.forbes.com/global/2008/0407/060.html):  If I make a million euros in Russia, I get to keep 870,000 - and that's with a lot of people to raise from poverty.  If I make the same million Euros in Denmark, I keep 381,400.  So.... who are the blood-sucking commies again?   :?
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: trollfreezone on August 11, 2008, 11:56:37 AM
Where's the option for leave them the fuck alone and let them decide what they want to do?
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Taors on August 11, 2008, 12:35:38 PM
Where's the option for leave them the fuck alone and let them decide what they want to do?

But Ken, we're a super power, we have to flex our muscles lest the world think us weak!
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Skooma on August 11, 2008, 02:54:53 PM
The US has been called in for help?

Oh great.

Holy shit.

This is pretty much exactly what happened in the original Ghost Recon game. Same year too.


I've started playing it again.
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman on August 11, 2008, 03:14:25 PM
Where's the option for leave them the fuck alone and let them decide what they want to do?

They seem to want to join the Northern ~4/5th of their nation, so that's why the language of "let them" in the first option.

And Georgia decided to invade to strong-arm them into compliance, and they chose do to it just when the world won't notice because of the Olympics.  And the world didn't - BBC, CNN, etc kept silent as if nothing was going on.  Then Russia took the bait and rolled in the defense of South Ossetia, and suddenly the western media is like, "wow, where did that come from, big bad Russia attacking poor defenseless Georgia for its vast natural resources"...  :x

Needless to say, this goes a long way in validating a number of other suspicions / conspiracy theories I have...
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: trollfreezone on August 11, 2008, 03:15:46 PM
Where's the option for leave them the fuck alone and let them decide what they want to do?

They seem to want to join the Northern ~4/5th of their nation, so that's why the language of "let them" in the first option.


Did you interview each and every one of them to find out whether they want to participate in a foreign monopoly government?
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: hellbilly on August 11, 2008, 04:41:10 PM
Their own gov. attacked them.. sounds like leaving for Russia isn't such a bad idea.

And if there were some who wanted to stay.. I'll bet they might not now!
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: YixilTesiphon on August 11, 2008, 06:26:52 PM
But in Russia, if somebody with connections wants to make those million rubles, they'll expropriate your business.
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman on August 11, 2008, 06:36:27 PM
Not really.  Russia has to behave to attract foreign capital, like any country.
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: atomiccat on August 13, 2008, 04:10:11 AM
http://www.russiatoday.com/en
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman on August 13, 2008, 10:57:22 PM
American citizen telling the truth about Georgian invade in South Ossetia:

[youtube=425,350]yCwTo9AdT2c[/youtube]

You won't see that on USMSM...
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: hellbilly on August 14, 2008, 02:01:03 AM
You can bet your ass that nearly all Americans will turn away from any shred of evidence that suggests Russia is justified in what they have done.

I certainly don't have all the details, and think that there is guilt on both sides- but Georgia instigated this battle. Many citizens in that area were actually Russian citizens and Georgia wanted them out because they wanted to secede. So Russia stepped in to protect those citizens even though it was on Georgian soil.

MSM is so shady..
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: trollfreezone on August 14, 2008, 11:27:06 AM
I think there's guilt on all sides, because governments are involved.
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: bakerbaker on August 14, 2008, 12:17:42 PM
Quote from: tool
monkies killing monkies killing monkies over pieces of the ground...
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman on August 14, 2008, 06:12:43 PM
Fox News: 12 Year Old Girl Tells the Truth about Georgia

[youtube=425,350]H8XI2Chc6uQ[/youtube]

"Before I say anything else, I just want to say that I was running
from Georgian troops bombing our city, not Russian troops.  I want
to say Thank You to the Russian troops that were helping us."

Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman on August 14, 2008, 08:00:18 PM
Here's how history should remember this war:
(http://www.alexlibman.com/__imagebucket2/Russia-Bear-vs-Georgia-Punk-1.png) (http://www.alexlibman.com/__imagebucket2/Russia-Bear-vs-Georgia-Punk-1.png)



(http://www.alexlibman.com/__imagebucket2/Russia-Bear-vs-Georgia-Punk-2.png) (http://www.alexlibman.com/__imagebucket2/Russia-Bear-vs-Georgia-Punk-2.png)

Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: bakerbaker on August 14, 2008, 08:20:56 PM
Fox News: 12 Year Old Girl Tells the Truth about Georgia

he was about to say "that's certainly what Russia would want you to think.." --wasn't he?


sweet graphic, btw.

EDIT:  i was hoping she was just going to remain completley silent when he told her she had 30 seconds to speak...must have been the time lapse.
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman on August 27, 2008, 11:17:45 PM
Can't believe I missed this RidleyReport:

[youtube=425,350]sEgDPoZsUn8[/youtube]


Oh, and for those who missed it...  Here's Gorby!

[youtube=425,350]nSd_FNhZEZs[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]mZNjKMS6onc[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]pa3eS2qfzd0[/youtube]
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Russell Griswold on August 28, 2008, 12:59:08 PM
Whoa, Gorbachev looks really old!  :shock:
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman 14 on June 03, 2009, 03:37:59 AM
So they had themselves a lil democratic election (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetian_parliamentary_election,_2009)...

Needless to say, the "free world" is much pissed!  :roll:
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith) on June 03, 2009, 05:03:27 AM
So they had themselves a lil democratic election (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetian_parliamentary_election,_2009)...

Needless to say, the "free world" is much pissed!  :roll:

Wow what an awesome list of parties:

Quote
The following parties participated in the election:[18]
Unity Party
Communist Party of South Ossetia
People's Party of South Ossetia (pro-Kokoity)
Fatherland Socialist Party

The Unity Party is the ruling party in the current parliament.[14] According to Reuters, Unity, Communists, and the pro-Kokoity People's party support the current President Eduard Kokoity, while the Fatherland Socialist party opposes him.[6] Two opposition parties were barred from running, the ruling Unity suspecting they would not be sufficiently loyal to the ruling president Kokoity. Specifically, Unity has been expressing concerns that if the opposition parties were allowed in the Parliament, they might try to block a constitutional amendment removing presidential term limits, thus not permitting Kokoity to run for a third presidential term. Somewhat confusingly, one of the barred opposition parties also used to be named "People's Party" but was preëmpted by appearance of a pro-Kokoity block registering themselves under this name.
  :?
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman 14 on June 03, 2009, 08:34:49 AM
Secession aside, that's not much different than most countries...

Of course who cares what people think.  Elections are only valid when they're in our favor...
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Luke Smith on June 05, 2009, 06:50:23 AM
Here's more food for thought:

NATO's yearly military expenditures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures): $850 billion.  Russia's: $45 billion (3% of world's share).  As percent of GDP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_future_GDP_(PPP)_estimates):  Russia is 4.58% (about same as USA), Georgia is 15.90% - that's a mind-bending figure given that Russia's per-capita GDP is 3x higher!  Georgia's listed defense chunk of the budget is second only to North Korea!  And in reality it's much higher, since they're buying some stuff at deep discount and that data is a year old - it went up by like 30x over the past few years!

According to the 2008 Forbes tax misery index (http://www.forbes.com/global/2008/0407/060.html):  If I make a million euros in Russia, I get to keep 870,000 - and that's with a lot of people to raise from poverty.  If I make the same million Euros in Denmark, I keep 381,400.  So.... who are the blood-sucking commies again?   :?

It's the funniest thing, isn't it. Russia moving towards capitalism and the West moving towards communism. But it used to be even worse, believe it or not. In this country there used to be 70% and 90% income tax brackets, but Reagan got rid of them I believe.
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman 14 on June 07, 2009, 12:17:37 PM
Yeah, and as a recent episode of FTL had reminded me - the Denmark numbers you've quoted don't even include the VAT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax#Criticisms)...

If you don't care about political speech, Russia is a pretty good place to live.  Taxes as low as Singapore, but the drug laws are less crazy (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/8339.php), the climate is cooler (if you don't like it being so hot and humid you can't breathe), land is waaaay cheaper, and the women are hotter too!  ;)

Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: AL the Inconspicuous on February 12, 2010, 11:41:57 PM
This thread was started during the Summer Olympics two years ago, when NATO-backed Georgia used the international distraction to violently crush freedom in a region desiring secession.

Today, during the Winter Olympics in Vancouver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Winter_Olympics), an event happened that was so mind-blowing I still can't believe it's not a hoax.  The Russia-Georgia rivalry was playing itself out in a luge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luge) race, and...  Wow! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nodar_Kumaritashvili)

[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/H5lAS7H6tkg&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/H5lAS7H6tkg&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]


(EDIT: above video ordered taken down (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20100222/ioc-orders-blogger-take-down-video.htm) by the Olympics Nazis...)
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: anarchir on February 13, 2010, 01:26:39 AM
wow
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: AL the Inconspicuous on February 22, 2010, 10:47:07 PM
Looks like Hollywood is making a propaganda film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_%282010_film%29) to solidify their lies about NATO's crackdown on Ossetian self-determination...

If something that happened right before our eyes can be lied about so drastically, that goes a long way to legitimize all other historical revisionism on all subjects...

All of history can be nothing but a steaming pile of shit...

:x
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith) on February 23, 2010, 10:11:39 AM
Looks like Hollywood is making a propaganda film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_%282010_film%29) to solidify their lies about NATO's crackdown on Ossetian self-determination...

If something that happened right before our eyes can be lied about so drastically, that goes a long way to legitimize all other historical revisionism on all subjects...

All of history can be nothing but a steaming pile of shit...

:x

I think you're the revisionist.
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: AL the Inconspicuous on February 23, 2010, 07:05:10 PM
You're a proven deranged ethnocentric fanatic.  Who cares what you think.

I too want to support the slightly more economically free Georgia over Russia, but that doesn't mean tolerating NATO violence, oppression, and deceit!  Truth is my highest value!  Let justice be done though the heavens fall!  You get the idea.  Or maybe you don't...

So then, which part of "Ossetians overwhelmingly want secession from Georgia" still escapes your petty little brain?
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith) on February 23, 2010, 07:09:33 PM
I don't think you're looking at all of the intricacies of Georgian politics.  I'm not going to pretend I know them all, but I would not be surprised if this "secessionist movement" you're talking about turns out to be nothing more than Russian imperialism.
Title: Re: Free Ossetia?
Post by: Alex Libman on August 09, 2010, 01:28:24 AM
Fox News prominently links to this propaganda piece:

Georgia Shines 2 Years After Russians Rolled In (http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/georgia-shines-two-years-after-russians-rolled-in/19584181)

I guess the government-controlled Western press is still utterly incapable of mentioning how this conflict got started, or the fact that the break-away regions near-unanimously (~95%) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetian_independence_referendum,_2006) prefer leaving Georgia and would rather be a part of Russia, agree with them or not.  Sure, Russia is still Russia while Georgia could be the next Estonia, but I just cannot stand the lies and spin no matter which side of the iron curtain they're coming from!