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Poll

Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad? and state why you believe the way you do

Yes I am circumcised
- 21 (25.6%)
No I'm not circumcised
- 16 (19.5%)
I'm a girl
- 4 (4.9%)
I believe circumcision is good
- 13 (15.9%)
I believe circumcision is bad
- 28 (34.1%)

Total Members Voted: 32


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Author Topic: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?  (Read 19123 times)

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Rillion

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Re: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2009, 10:20:15 AM »

however permanently modifying someones body without consent is immoral whatever you're doing.

Well, hang on-- you'd be a terrible parent if you didn't do certain things to a child whether he consents or not.  Sometimes small children need surgery, vaccinations, and so on. 

The thing is that there is no legitimate argument for circumcising a child without his/her consent, no argument that it's "for his own good" that's actually backed up medically.   If there were, then I could probably get behind supporting it even though it's a non-consensual permanent modification.  But as it stands, the reasoning behind it is almost entirely a combination of religion and straight-out mindless tradition. 

Man, procrastination makes me write about a lot of stuff I otherwise wouldn't.  How silly to keep writing to avoid writing. 
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fatcat

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Re: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2009, 10:29:41 AM »

however permanently modifying someones body without consent is immoral whatever you're doing.

Well, hang on-- you'd be a terrible parent if you didn't do certain things to a child whether he consents or not.  Sometimes small children need surgery, vaccinations, and so on. 

Okay in that instances such as that its permissible, as I'm assuming any surgery that is required does not lead to any permanent harm that would have happened without surgery. Most vaccinations and surgeries do not have permanent physical consequences, and if they do its usually a positive, like saving a leg or something. You can always get a leg cut off if you aren't happy with your parents decision later in life.


Just like if I'm knocked unconscious in an accident, its safe for paramedics to assume I consent to being saved, rather than just let me die on the off chance I want to die. If they do treat me, I'm always free to kill myself later, and I don't really think performing life saving surgery, even if it is physical invasive can count as the initiation of force. There is always a grey area when it comes to areas where consent is impossible, so I wouldn't claim anything I've said is set in stone correct.

When I said body modification I was simply thinking more of this kind of stuff.
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Rillion

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Re: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2009, 10:33:28 AM »

When I said body modification I was simply thinking more of this kind of stuff.

Yes, though luckily there aren't many parents around keen on tattooing their kids or piercing their nipples, though the fact that plenty of mothers think it okay to pierce their infants' ears disturbs me.  Sometimes pierced ears heal back together, other times they don't.  And even if they do heal, they leave a dent. 
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Bill Brasky

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Re: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2009, 03:11:12 PM »


Its the childs body, its the childs choice when they grow to make that choice as an adult, or at least when they're old enough to be reasonable. 

The problem with circumcision is so many people do it to their kids, the uncut kid is the minority.  When they get into any school setting (even private, gov. school haters) they get involved in locker room stuff, or standing at the urinal, they see each others penises.  In the ignorance that is young boys, they eventually run across the uncut kid who thinks he is normal, then they laugh at him.  This is psychologically damaging to the self perception and sexuality of the uncut kid. 

If all kids were left uncut until they were more mature, this wouldn't happen.  And most girls will have by then been exposed to uncut penises, so they wouldn't think it was weird, which in turn would further reduce the demand for cutting in normal society (aside from religious reasons, I mean).   
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rabidfurby

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Re: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2009, 04:23:47 PM »

I cannot even believe that people do this. It is such a massive act of degradation, yet it goes on. It is a total violation. Understand that your parents and your "doctors" are mindless scum.

not to mention the double standard that says it's "ok" to mutilate the male's genitalia...even a celebration/ceremony for some...

and then to not have the same "standard" for mutilating the female's genitalia...

it's a barbaric and sadistic practice either way and it should cease...

after the first parents are found guilty of male mutilation it will send a strong signal that it should cease...

otherwise, advocates against it should continue to display photos and videos of the clitoris being hacked off with a piece of broken glass...or a tin can lid...

sick fuckers...really sick...


look at it this way...

today, in many countries, if you walked into a religious ceremony where a male infant's genitalia was being mutilated...and you rescued the infant, and destroyed the perpetrators...that would be frowned upon...

shame shit, different skin...

today, in many countries, if you walked into a religious ceremony where a female's genitalia was being mutilated...and you rescued the infant, and destroyed the perpetrators...you'd be a hero...

go figure...

sick
sick
sick

ask how I really feel

enjoy!



Actually, Rob.  Ol' buddy, ol' pal...you make an excellent point and I you've also made me look at it from an angle I had not previously considered.   :shock:

Mark this day in history, as the day when Rob made a reasonable point, and refrained from suggesting RADing some mobocracy looter minions for at least a few minutes.

2009-01-24. Nevar forget.
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mikehz

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Re: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2009, 06:48:08 PM »

The practice of circumcision started off as a way of discouraging young male from having sex, in particular, masturbatory sex, which was thought to cause all sorts of horrible things, such as insanity. Doctors quickly found that the surgery helped line their pockets. When it was later found out that a) masturbation didn't cause health problems and b) circumcision didn't do anything to prevent masturbation, a new excuse had to be cooked up for the money-making practice. "It helps prevent disease. Yeah, that's the ticket! Plus, everyone else has been deformed, and you don't want to look funny in the locker room."
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hellbilly

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Re: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2009, 08:09:22 PM »

I'm snipped, but I chose to not have my son go through the needless and savage practice.

Adult males who decide to do it for religious reasons.... have at it! lol
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ox

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Re: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2009, 12:09:08 AM »

I'm snipped, but I chose to not have my son go through the needless and savage practice.

Nice work.  Me too.
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2009, 07:39:33 PM »

Its funny how many "libertarians" here are ranting. You might have heard of a line that goes "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose" and this is such a situation.

Just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean you have any right to stop others from doing it. I dont like pornography, but I will be damned if its illegalized, for example. You might not like circumcision, but no one here is in any place to tell the parent of someone elses child what to do. If you do, then theres no difference between you and any other conservative that tells others how to live their lives.
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Rillion

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Re: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2009, 07:49:48 PM »

Its funny how many "libertarians" here are ranting. You might have heard of a line that goes "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose" and this is such a situation.

Just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean you have any right to stop others from doing it. I dont like pornography, but I will be damned if its illegalized, for example. You might not like circumcision, but no one here is in any place to tell the parent of someone elses child what to do. If you do, then theres no difference between you and any other conservative that tells others how to live their lives.

1.  I haven't seen anyone here say that parents don't have the right to have their babies circumcised.

2.  At what point do you think that people have a right not to have permanent, non-medically necessary alterations made to their bodies? 
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fatcat

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Re: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2009, 09:41:11 PM »

Just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean you have any right to stop others from doing it. I dont like pornography, but I will be damned if its illegalized, for example. You might not like circumcision, but no one here is in any place to tell the parent of someone elses child what to do. If you do, then theres no difference between you and any other conservative that tells others how to live their lives.

Compelling argument...... if we were talking about children asking to be circumcised.

Pornography is a complete false parallel as no one is physically mutilated by watching porn.


Is any sort of body modification to (presumably your) children acceptable so long as there are no real major health complications? Is foot binding okay? How about scarification?

I fail to see on what principle you defend any initiation of force on children. If forced body modification is acceptable for male circumcision, then its acceptable for every other kind, unless you're going to draw up some false distinction about "harmless" body mutilation and harmful mutilations.

I don't see how having a kid gives me any more right to do things to them than any other kid.

Quote
You might not like circumcision, but no one here is in any place to tell the parent of someone elses child what to do.

Of course they are. Is it okay to beat a kid just because its yours? Of course not. So stop acting like parents choosing to circumcise their kids before they can even have a say in the matter is some act of personal expression, when its an act of force, albeit not a particularly egregious and life changing one, but an act of force, with permanent consequences non the less.
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CaL DaVe

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Re: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2009, 12:18:03 AM »

I have an interesting situation....

The following is a graphic description of my favorite body part, if you don't want to read it the I suggest you do not. :D

I have never talked to my mother about this because of the awkwardness of the conversation, so I don't know how I ended up the way I did. Anywho, I know that at some point my parents chose to get me circumcised although I don't remember getting it done. The procedure for some reason didn't go correctly, today I have a portion of the foreskin attached to the head of the penis. it is really small, I'd say about three eights of an inch or so.? I have no idea how this could have happened. It boggles my mind. I think it must have had to do with the post operation home care. However it does not effect any functions, sex is great and there is really no downside besides it looking a little odd.

None of the women I have been with were ever freaked out about it and if they were, none of them were complaining once it went to work, IFFFFF you know what I mean,  8) but I do admit, I was kind of nervous for my first time at how my g/f would react, luckily she was a good girl and we had a good time. I used to think about  getting it fixed but it does not bother me anymore now that I'm married and my wife does not care at all.

My point is that the unnecessary procedure caused me to have a defect that I was pretty self conscious when I was younger. In addition my relationship with my parents wasn't such that I felt comfortable saying to my mom: "Hey do you think we can go to the doctor so they can re-snip my dick. lol. I didn't even know anything was wrong with it until I was reaching puberty. And at that point I didn't want to talk to my mom about my member. I would have liked to have the choice on being snipped, and would have liked to have been old enough to give it the care it so rightfully deserves.

 


I will not be cutting my sons or daughters for no good reason.
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Re: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2009, 12:32:52 AM »

Quote
I have never talked to my mother about this because of the awkwardness of the conversation, so I don't know how I ended up the way I did. Anywho, I know that at some point my parents chose to get me circumcised although I don't remember getting it done. The procedure for some reason didn't go correctly, today I have a portion of the foreskin attached to the head of the penis. it is really small, I'd say about three eights of an inch or so.? I have no idea how this could have happened. It boggles my mind. I think it must have had to do with the post operation home care. However it does not effect any functions, sex is great and there is really no downside besides it looking a little odd.

None of the women I have been with were ever freaked out about it and if they were, none of them were complaining once it went to work, IFFFFF you know what I mean,  Cool but I do admit, I was kind of nervous for my first time at how my g/f would react, luckily she was a good girl and we had a good time. I used to think about  getting it fixed but it does not bother me anymore now that I'm married and my wife does not care at all.

My point is that the unnecessary procedure caused me to have a defect that I was pretty self conscious when I was younger. In addition my relationship with my parents wasn't such that I felt comfortable saying to my mom: "Hey do you think we can go to the doctor so they can re-snip my dick. lol. I didn't even know anything was wrong with it until I was reaching puberty. And at that point I didn't want to talk to my mom about my member. I would have liked to have the choice on being snipped, and would have liked to have been old enough to give it the care it so rightfully deserves.
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hellbilly

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Re: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2009, 12:47:42 AM »

Its funny how many "libertarians" here are ranting. You might have heard of a line that goes "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose" and this is such a situation.

Just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean you have any right to stop others from doing it. I dont like pornography, but I will be damned if its illegalized, for example. You might not like circumcision, but no one here is in any place to tell the parent of someone elses child what to do. If you do, then theres no difference between you and any other conservative that tells others how to live their lives.

If you're speaking of adults choosing to modify their body, have at it. I pierced my own nose, nipples, sack and penis. Not as extreme as lopping off a foreskin- but you get the idea.

The concern is mutilation of infants, and let's not forget the good 'ol tradition of young girls having their clitorises snipped off.. all for religious reasons and/or "wanna fit in" excuses. You OK with parents doing that? As others have said, what about beatings and scarification- or any other sort of blood-letting?
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WallyC33

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Re: Do you Believe Circumcision is good or bad?
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2009, 02:49:46 AM »

Quote
I have never talked to my mother about this because of the awkwardness of the conversation, so I don't know how I ended up the way I did. Anywho, I know that at some point my parents chose to get me circumcised although I don't remember getting it done. The procedure for some reason didn't go correctly, today I have a portion of the foreskin attached to the head of the penis. it is really small, I'd say about three eights of an inch or so.? I have no idea how this could have happened. It boggles my mind. I think it must have had to do with the post operation home care. However it does not effect any functions, sex is great and there is really no downside besides it looking a little odd.

None of the women I have been with were ever freaked out about it and if they were, none of them were complaining once it went to work, IFFFFF you know what I mean,  Cool but I do admit, I was kind of nervous for my first time at how my g/f would react, luckily she was a good girl and we had a good time. I used to think about  getting it fixed but it does not bother me anymore now that I'm married and my wife does not care at all.

My point is that the unnecessary procedure caused me to have a defect that I was pretty self conscious when I was younger. In addition my relationship with my parents wasn't such that I felt comfortable saying to my mom: "Hey do you think we can go to the doctor so they can re-snip my dick. lol. I didn't even know anything was wrong with it until I was reaching puberty. And at that point I didn't want to talk to my mom about my member. I would have liked to have the choice on being snipped, and would have liked to have been old enough to give it the care it so rightfully deserves.

Damn! I went through the trouble of copy and paste into notepad to read it. All I had to do was read the next post. Duh
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