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Poll

What level of Education have you completed?

Have not Graduated Highschool
- 4 (2.3%)
Highschool or GED
- 17 (9.8%)
Attended College but have not Graduated
- 57 (32.8%)
2 Year College Degree
- 18 (10.3%)
4 Year College Degree
- 45 (25.9%)
Masters Degree
- 10 (5.7%)
Doctoral Degree
- 6 (3.4%)
Other Professional Degree (MD, LLB, ETC)
- 2 (1.1%)
Multiple Technical Certification(s) w/o HighSchool Diploma or GED
- 1 (0.6%)
Multiple Technical Certifications w/o College Degee
- 6 (3.4%)
Multiple Technical Certification(s) & 2yr Degree
- 0 (0%)
Multiple Technical Certification(s) & 4yr Degree
- 4 (2.3%)
Multple Degrees (In Different Fields of Study)
- 4 (2.3%)

Total Members Voted: 106


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Author Topic: Demographics - Education Level?  (Read 27099 times)

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Taors

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Re: Demographics - Education Level?
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2008, 09:15:36 PM »

...except that, unlike Judaism, the belief systems of Atheism and Agnosticism do not have any collectivist ideals built into them.

Basically, what I am getting is that you have conceded that Judaism does in fact have some collectivist ideals built right in, with the only exception to that fact being that one is free to simply stop believing in Judaism. (At which point you are no longer Jewish, so... guess what, Judaism still has socialist principles built into it... as long as you are a believer... You personally discontinuing your personal belief does not change the faith as a whole, and as defined by the Torah)

That is not like Atheism or Agnosticism much at all. It is of course, similar to the Christian concept of tithing... and one can stop being Christian just as easily, and stop putting money into the collection plate.

Regardless of the fact that Judaism doesn't threaten it's followers with hellfire and damnation, there are certainly other systems of pressure within the Jewish community. Your claims to the contrary are just deceptive and frankly that is a load of crap. To suggest that it is not common in Jewish society to pressure family members to devoutly follow their faith, and to even date and marry only other Jewish people - is just ignoring a very common truth of the Jewish community. I'm a little surprised that you would act as though Orthodox Jews, and Hasidics simply don't exist...

It is not written anywhere in any sort of "non-believer doctrine" that you will be expected to give 10% of your income after taxes to the church, the poor, or anyone else. It is also certainly not expected that if you do not, that you will receive pressure from your peers until you do, or until you change your faith.

Also... since it needs to be addressed, even though it's not really the argument at hand... pressuring people into joining a faith, and pressuring people into giving up their property, are two separate issues. They are individual issues, and should not be linked or confused.

If collectivism is voluntarily obtained, then there is nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

It sounds to me like you're basing your views on a false premise (that collectivism is inherently evil).
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Johnson

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Re: Demographics - Education Level?
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2008, 09:38:41 PM »

I guess I don't equate fraud and coercion to being voluntary.

I don't equate the indoctrination of children to the reasoned and informed decisions of grown adults who have had the opportunity to actually experience multiple ways of life.

So, yes, while I do believe in pizzanomics, I don't believe in collectivism obtained through coercion.
For example, I would be OK with a group of people pitching in to buy pizza, but I would not think it would be OK for a group of people to say "Pitch in to buy a pizza with us, even if you don't have very much money, or aren't hungry... OR LEAVE OUR GROUP." While it may be voluntary... It's coerced.  It's also not very moral.

Also...
What principles in Judaism advocate initiation of force? 

Circumcision.

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"In silent resignation, one must never submit to them voluntarily, and even if one is imprisoned in some ghastly dictatorship's jail, where no action is possible - serenity comes from the knowledge that one does NOT accept it. To deal with men by force, is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion... Which is the policy of savages who rule men by force, and who plead with nature by prayers, incantations and bribes (sacrifies)." - Ayn Rand

Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Demographics - Education Level?
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2008, 10:21:13 PM »

Shoot, I might as well jump into this.

In Judaism charity is given voluntarily, in that the person with the money does decides to give it, and how much between 10-20% of his income, and when, and to whom they should give it. We have no worldly offices that do our accounting; telling us how much to give. No being on earth decides that we should give more or less.

That said, it is still a commandment. A G-d given law that we practice justice. G-d wills to the cent how much each person has, and how much will come into their hands. The justice involved is when you realize the poor exist for the rich to give charity to, because that is the reason the rich have their wealth.  The purpose of the 10% every person must give is that they realize that money comes from the hands of G-d for the purpose of giving out.

And, this is not communism, because as it is written in the communist manefesto wealth will be redistributed after a violent revolution ( I am heavily rephrasing) which is in effect theft. So, as opposed to communism which purports itself to being just, Judaism recognizes there are legitimate reasons each person has whay he owns, so that the Vanderbilts, and the Rockefellers of the world did rightly get their money, as it came from G-d. Therefore stealing would prevert the natural order.

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I am looking for an honest man. -Diogenes The Cynic

Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

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Johnson

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Re: Demographics - Education Level?
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2008, 11:50:13 PM »

The justice involved is when you realize the poor exist for the rich to give charity to, because that is the reason the rich have their wealth.

Oh, I see, that's not collectivist thought or a total misunderstanding of the concept of wealth at all...

I retract my ENTIRE argument....
Just Kidding.... Circumcision!
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"In silent resignation, one must never submit to them voluntarily, and even if one is imprisoned in some ghastly dictatorship's jail, where no action is possible - serenity comes from the knowledge that one does NOT accept it. To deal with men by force, is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion... Which is the policy of savages who rule men by force, and who plead with nature by prayers, incantations and bribes (sacrifies)." - Ayn Rand

Johnson

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Re: Demographics - Education Level?
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2008, 02:31:26 AM »

I feel I should link this discussion to two principles I sort of glazed over:

1. Wealth is Infinite - http://www.ruwart.com/Healing/chap2.html
2. Pizzacracy (which I incorrectly referred to as pizzanomics) http://www.isil.org/resources/libertydocs/pizzacracy.html
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"In silent resignation, one must never submit to them voluntarily, and even if one is imprisoned in some ghastly dictatorship's jail, where no action is possible - serenity comes from the knowledge that one does NOT accept it. To deal with men by force, is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion... Which is the policy of savages who rule men by force, and who plead with nature by prayers, incantations and bribes (sacrifies)." - Ayn Rand

orion

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Re: Demographics - Education Level?
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2008, 06:57:15 PM »

I have not graduated high school. Then again, I am still in it.
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Johnson

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Re: Demographics - Education Level?
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2008, 06:59:31 PM »

I have not graduated high school. Then again, I am still in it.

That's fine, like I said to Lindsey, this will be shown along side the occupation poll, where you most likely answered "student".
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"In silent resignation, one must never submit to them voluntarily, and even if one is imprisoned in some ghastly dictatorship's jail, where no action is possible - serenity comes from the knowledge that one does NOT accept it. To deal with men by force, is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion... Which is the policy of savages who rule men by force, and who plead with nature by prayers, incantations and bribes (sacrifies)." - Ayn Rand

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Re: Demographics - Education Level?
« Reply #52 on: October 01, 2008, 09:45:11 AM »

Bachelor's degree in Chemical Engineering
Bachelor's degree in Computer Science
Dropped out of grad school, decided to take my degrees and start making $$  8)

NHArticleTen

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Re: Demographics - Education Level?
« Reply #53 on: October 01, 2008, 10:06:43 AM »


Never-ending Student and Advocate of the Philosophically Mature Non-Aggression Principle...

other...

jack-of-all, master-of-none...

OJT-culinary arts-101(dishwashing)
OJT-earth sciences-101(bulldozer)
OJT-aeronautical navigation-101(flight instructor)
OJT-statistical matter projection-101(firearms instructor)

and many, many others as well...

enjoy!

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Lindsey

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Re: Demographics - Education Level?
« Reply #54 on: October 01, 2008, 07:33:59 PM »

Statistical matter projection.  ROFL.  Sounds like an interesting name for a band. 
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