The Free Talk Live BBS
Free Talk Live => The Polling Pit => Topic started by: LoveFreedomAndLiberty on January 06, 2012, 12:51:52 PM
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Additional Topics
1)Are there too many laws?
2)Are too many people placed in cages?
3)What do cages do to human psychology?
4)Do you agree with the reasons people are caged?
5)Have innocent people been caged?
6)Should claustrophobic people be placed in cages?
7)Do some people come out of the cage with more problems than they went in with?
8)Do some people become the victims of crime while in the system?
9)Should those unable to repay a debt be placed in a cage?
10)Should humans be placed in cages for not paying child support?
11)Are there any studies that you know of regarding this topic?
12)What reasons should humans be placed in cages?
13)Do cages rehabilitate?
14)Are defendants allowed to present any and all evidence they feel is important?
15)Do you know of any studies?
16)What are your opinions and solutions?
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Yes, but it doesn't have to only be for "seriously" violent crimes. I guess that depends on how you define serious. There are lots of real crimes which should result in someone's caging. Seriously violent to me sounds like only rape and murder. But someone who goes around starting fist fights regularly should be caged. Someone who threatens someone physically should be caged. Muggers should be caged. Those who commit fraud should be caged. People who commit real sex crimes, even if they are not violent, should be caged. The criminally insane should be caged. There are a myriad of reasons for caging someone.
Obviously the term of the sentence and the amount of restitution should vary by the degree of the crime committed.
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Additional Topics
1)Are there too many laws?
No shit.
2)Are too many people placed in cages?
Obviously. People who commit truly victimless crimes should not be caged. (i.e. smoking a joint, or gambling).
3)What do cages do to human psychology?
Probably make those who are or were caged feel like shit and decide to fix their lives for the future so they don't have to return to a terrible life in a cage again.
4)Do you agree with the reasons people are caged?
Described above.
5)Have innocent people been caged?
Seriously?
6)Should claustrophobic people be placed in cages?
If they committed a real crime with a victim that warrants a caging, who the fuck cares about their psychology?
7)Do some people come out of the cage with more problems than they went in with?
Sure, but if they did something that warrants a caging then who the fuck cares?
8)Do some people become the victims of crime while in the system?
Obviously.
9)Should those unable to repay a debt be placed in a cage?
No, the way our current system handles these individuals seems to work well enough to me.
10)Should humans be placed in cages for not paying child support?
Probably not.
11)Are there any studies that you know of regarding this topic?
No.
12)What reasons should humans be placed in cages?
13)Do cages rehabilitate?
They sure can with some people. Look at Mark Edge, is he living the life of crime that he alleges he was prior to caging?
14)Are defendants allowed to present any and all evidence they feel is important?
Probably depends on the judge. They should be able to.
15)Do you know of any studies?
16)What are your opinions and solutions?
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Only problem I have with keeping murderers and rapists in a cage, is if people that had nothing to do with it end up being forced to pay for it. Some might say "well, thats the price you pay to live in a safe society" If thats how you feel, we might as well go full on socialism and give everyone free health care and everything else under the sun, which most of us here would agree is bullshit.
If you can figure out a way cover the costs of food, electricity, guards, health care and other necessities for these caged animals through donations or by other means, I say go for it. Keep em in a cage.
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We have to restrain people who harm innocent people. I still think really evil Charles Manson type killers would be generally lynched in a free society, but in the rare instances where the individual gets taken alive they would have to be caged, for their protection and everybody else's.
For permanent closer I am starting to warm up to quickmike's island idea.
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Its a good plan.
I just didn't want to mention it again because everyones probably getting sick of hearing about it.
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A rape cage should only be used for temporary holding.
If someone is so bad you need to lock them up for a long time, you might as well kill them.
Not gonna disagree with that. I've always been a supporter of the death penalty for murderers, assuming there is good proof they did it.
Its a good plan.
I just didn't want to mention it again because everyones probably getting sick of hearing about it.
Ever read Methuselah's Children by Heinlein? It's all about "Coventry", which is pretty much the same idea you're talking about.
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Hmmm, this Methuselah sounds like a pretty smart guy.
I'll might just have to check that out. I think you mentioned this book before, but I probably spaced it off at the time.
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Is the bbs down or something?
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Yes, This "down hidden at the right and super skinny retro look" sucks some pretty sweaty dead man's balls.
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Its back now though...
Nothing to say about cages except I'd hate to live in one.
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Maybe these enclosers could pay for themselves by being some sort of reality show. Live screen savers or something. Give them little zap collars when they don't move around enough.
I really liked that "Man on a desert island" screen saver.
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They're already serving the corporations as prison labor.
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Human beings can live together in a free society only by respecting one another’s rights. Of course, there are many other sorts of societies that can exist, such as dictatorships. But, for a “free” society to exist, mutual respect for rights is a necessity.
Any person who does not respect the rights of others (by, say, stealing) shows through their actions that they do not accept the concept of rights. After all, you can’t both accept a right AND reject that same right to someone else, since this would entail a contradiction. Therefore, it is morally acceptable to remove rights from those who would deny rights to others.
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Hmmm, this Methuselah sounds like a pretty smart guy.
I'll might just have to check that out. I think you mentioned this book before, but I probably spaced it off at the time.
Coincidentally the Ericksson Foundation (however they spell it) concept was also nabbed from a Heinlein book; it appears to be modeled after the "Free Trader" society of Heinlein's Citizen of the Galaxy.
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I just found a bittorrent with all of Heinlen's books in e-book format included in it. Cool.
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I agree with MikeHz (I always read that as Hertz) with this one. If a person isn't socialized enough to live among civil society, and transgresses a law, he should be punished by a set time of removal.
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A man spends 2 years in solitary for DWI:
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/26/10243856-letters-from-solitary-confinement-reveal-dwi-mans-despair (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/26/10243856-letters-from-solitary-confinement-reveal-dwi-mans-despair)
Covicted but later found innocent:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/wrongfully-imprisoned-man-awarded-25-million-damages-212356410.html (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/wrongfully-imprisoned-man-awarded-25-million-damages-212356410.html)
http://rawjustice.com/2010/10/18/15-people-who-were-jailed-andor-executed-then-found-innocent/ (http://rawjustice.com/2010/10/18/15-people-who-were-jailed-andor-executed-then-found-innocent/)
Is the current system working?
Have these people been caused any psychological issues?
Can money restore a human being's psychology?
Can money restore time?
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3)What do cages do to human psychology?
Probably make those who are or were caged feel like shit and decide to fix their lives for the future so they don't have to return to a terrible life in a cage again.
6)Should claustrophobic people be placed in cages?
If they committed a real crime with a victim that warrants a caging, who the fuck cares about their psychology?
7)Do some people come out of the cage with more problems than they went in with?
Sure, but if they did something that warrants a caging then who the fuck cares?
I care. Considering that some people will be released into society again, I think it is important to avoid creating psychological problems in people. I think it is important to avoid placing people in places where they can become the victim of a crime. I think if society plans to release a person back into society, the mental state of every individual should be a serious concern.
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A rape cage should only be used for temporary holding.
If someone is so bad you need to lock them up for a long time, you might as well kill them.
Good point. The sad thing is when the wrong person is convicted. However, I think it is cruel to hold a human in a cage for long periods.
What time frame would be temporary?
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I agree with MikeHz (I always read that as Hertz) with this one. If a person isn't socialized enough to live among civil society, and transgresses a law, he should be punished by a set time of removal.
It depends on the law, some laws are only there because they were lobbied by a bunch of bureaucratic fucks.
You can find plenty of examples of that by state-by-state legislation. Pot, abortion, buttfucking, the DUI skirmish that resulted in .08 from highway funding- courtesy of MADD.
People love to argue that DUI law as safety to the citizenry, I think its nonsense in a country that has equal gun homicides to drunk driving deaths.
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Are there any cases where DNA, Drugs, etc. have ever been planted? Have lies ever been told to convict someone? Have mistakes ever been made?
Should placing the wrong person in jail for 16 years(as an example), be considered a crime? Should those involved in placing the wrong person in jail for 16 years(as an example) be held accountable and charged with a crime?
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Interesting Articles:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/us/23prison.html?pagewanted=all (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/us/23prison.html?pagewanted=all)
"Incarceration Rates by Country":
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Incarceration (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Incarceration)
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Do these people deserve to be placed in a cage?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/22/debtors-prison-legal-in-more-than-one-third-of-us-states_n_1107524.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/22/debtors-prison-legal-in-more-than-one-third-of-us-states_n_1107524.html)
http://www.startribune.com/investigators/95692619.html (http://www.startribune.com/investigators/95692619.html)
http://www.keyc.tv/story/15176536/jackson-man-jailed-for-shingling (http://www.keyc.tv/story/15176536/jackson-man-jailed-for-shingling)
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Have lies ever been told to convict someone? Have mistakes ever been made?
Do you pay attention to the things you say?
I hate to be an asshole about it, but you have a dozen threads asking stupid shit like this, and the answers are quite fucking obvious.
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stupid shit
obvious.
>.>
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I agree with MikeHz (I always read that as Hertz) with this one. If a person isn't socialized enough to live among civil society, and transgresses a law, he should be punished by a set time of removal.
It depends on the law, some laws are only there because they were lobbied by a bunch of bureaucratic fucks.
You can find plenty of examples of that by state-by-state legislation. Pot, abortion, buttfucking, the DUI skirmish that resulted in .08 from highway funding- courtesy of MADD.
People love to argue that DUI law as safety to the citizenry, I think its nonsense in a country that has equal gun homicides to drunk driving deaths.
...and the special case of THC-DUI, which in some cases includes zero tolerance, meaning if any is found in your blood, you're DUI per se (legally so, regardless of whether you are actually DUI.) This is important, because in most states, you can have THC in your system--well over the stated limits, typically between two and five nanograms per milliliter--and not be measurably impaired at all. We defeated a 5mg bill in Colorado last year, and the same asshole is coming back this year, with bigger and bolder lies than last year. It took a major effort to get it tossed at around 8:30pm of a morning hearing, and we don't get paid to fight it. Those assholes get paid, and they pull every trick in the book to try to get these things railroaded through, which they eventually do, such as the bill that made it "illegal" to grow in most counties (by zoning it out), even though the constitution clearly states that patients have a right to grow for themselves.
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Interesting Articles:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/us/23prison.html?pagewanted=all (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/us/23prison.html?pagewanted=all)
"Incarceration Rates by Country":
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Incarceration (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Incarceration)
Fucking Nixon and the war on drugs--it couldn't be any clearer.
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yea, fuck the "I'm not a crook" fucking crook that was richard milhouse nixon - dickhead!
law and order motherfucka's
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Not a fan, Fred?
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of fucking tricky dick? I think he was sucking dick in the backroom. whatever, if that what he wants to do, but to act like all law and order mother fuc king hippo.
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Legend has it Richard Nixon watched Deep Throat 10 times. It took that many times to get it down Pat.
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In our anarcho-capitalist minecraft server we have a prison mod. You can send people you kill to a specific prison that you build. I built mine high above an ocean where the only escape is a drop to the ocean below. Then you may swim until someone rescues you (wouldnt happen) or until you starve to death as the location is many miles from the nearest land, many more miles from the nearest inhabited land, and ten times that distance to the nearest city. Also, the nearby land is uninhabitable being only a small piece of dirt.
It makes wrongdoers truly think about their actions when I ultimately remove them from society.
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stupid shit
obvious.
>.>
Not sure what that means.
However, I do know I could place either one of my teen girls here, they'd read that statement about "Have lies ever been used to convict anyone", and they'd go "WELL, DUHHH!"
So, I consider that to be a pretty stupid and obvious statement.
I know he's most likely just trying to spur topics, but still - I can't think of anything more obvious. Cops lie. They cheat, use voluminous law that no reasonable person could ever expect to know to tangle people up in impossible loopholes, thereby giving them reasons to violate a persons right to live peaceably, and like a skeleton key, that opens all locks of privacy like an open book. Once a person is hooked into the "system" every detail is another hurdle to bury them deeper and keep them chained to the mechanics of the system.
Example, if you're on probation, for any reason, you are living at the whims of the probation officer. Even if the charge is unrelated, you can't drink, use recreational drugs, carry weapons, enter certain establishments, or get into any further (unrelated) trouble, or your probation will be revoked.
If the P.O. is friendly, you may escape most inconveniences. If he is not, he may look for reasons to make your life a living hell, and try to get you violated for his own private reasons.
I've heard of people living in shared living conditions, apartments and so-forth, who got yanked around because there were beer cans in the recycling bin, with no real proof who they actually belong to.
They can enter and search for incriminating evidence, disrupt your worklife, damaging your credibility as a valued employee - yet you are expected to retain employment.
People who know you are on probation can call in anonymous tips to settle a grudge, thereby bypassing your "right" to know your accuser.
The list goes on. There are hundreds of details they can use to cause you unnecessary problems.
They can justify unnecessary force by simply saying they had reason to suspect the citizen was about to behave dangerously.
People are violently assaulted every day because they don't know how to react to commands, having never experienced that kind of situation before, when the officers are trained, experienced, and fully armed in no reasonable danger whatsoever. This results in "resisting arrest", when in reality the citizen was just reacting out of fear of his personal safety.
I don't know if this person has been living under a rock for his whole life, but reading a single newspaper or watching one edition of news, or the fictional heroism drama television would answer this question to the satisfaction of any logical person above the age of ten.
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stupid shit
obvious.
>.>
Not sure what that means.
(http://i.imgur.com/oWvTF.jpg)
But I didn't want to say that because that just triggers more. So disregard this post. Pretend it was not posted. <.< >.> <.<
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Is that Ron Paul's Giant in the background?
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There's just no appreciation for subtlety around here lately.
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Oh.
I donno. Maybe he's trolly, maybe he's a pre-pubescent mentally challenged individual.
I just see a lot of dumbfuck "why is the sky blue?" kinda questions, and it makes me weird out.
My bad.
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Like, someone asks what seems to be a dumb question and you take time answering it and then they still don't get it so you take even more time explaining it, and then wash, rinse, repeat and after a while you realize you're spending a lot of time on this person and...
OOoooooooh, shit. I been trolled.
God damn it!
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Like, someone asks what seems to be a dumb question and you take time answering it and then they still don't get it so you take even more time explaining it, and then wash, rinse, repeat and after a while you realize you're spending a lot of time on this person and...
OOoooooooh, shit. I been trolled.
God damn it!
I've noticed you've demanded, frequently, as of late, that God damn things.