Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  The Polling Pit
| | |-+  Apple, Microsoft, or Linux?

Poll

Do you own a

Apple
- 13 (20.6%)
Microsoft
- 29 (46%)
Linux
- 21 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21


Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5]   Go Down

Author Topic: Apple, Microsoft, or Linux?  (Read 21299 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Brian Wolf

  • Guest
Re: Apple, Microsoft, or Linux?
« Reply #60 on: November 18, 2006, 09:00:17 PM »

Yes I've used a Mac. 
1) more secure than what?  All OS's available on any platform?
2) easier to use than what?  + easy is what you know. 
3) faster than what?
4) yeah.... probably prettier but My tower is under the desk.
5) now that they've switched to intel they're just another PC
6)  I build my own...  It's twice as much.  better quality than what?....  My hardware doesn't typically break faster than I replace it for other reasons.  I've had one HD go out after 5 years....  that's understandable, after 5 years it was time for more storage space.... storing massive amounts of audio/video had become practical and cheap in the last 5 years.  and one heavily used 4x CD burner crap out on me.  It was time to get a faster burner anyway.

I was going to respond to this, but you are either being deliberately obtuse, or you are just stupid.
Either way this conversation would be wasted on you, I can tell that right now, so Ill just say that you are right dude.
Windows is awesome! You are obviously very wise.
Logged

Ecolitan

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3244
    • View Profile
Re: Apple, Microsoft, or Linux?
« Reply #61 on: November 19, 2006, 08:20:05 AM »

I was going to respond to this, but you are either being deliberately obtuse, or you are just stupid.
Either way this conversation would be wasted on you, I can tell that right now, so Ill just say that you are right dude.
Windows is awesome! You are obviously very wise.

I never said windows is awesome.  I didn't intend to imply that anything not Mac is windows..  Why would you think that?  I ran OS/2 warp for awhile and liked it fine.  Too bad they got their ass kicked on the price point and no one made software for it.  The whole industry would be better off today for the increased competition.

I'm right about what?  That my tower is under the desk?  How would you know?  That I haven't found the quality of my PC hardware to be insufficient?  How would you know?  That I build my computers for cheap cuz I get all my parts wholesale...  how would you know?

The rest of it was questions....  If you don't have good answers..... fine.  I'll go on thinking extreme mac defenders are crazy cultists who can't give good answers about why macs are better.  More so now that the Macs they say are sooo great have so much in common with the PC's they've been insulting for years.
Logged

Brian Wolf

  • Guest
Re: Apple, Microsoft, or Linux?
« Reply #62 on: November 19, 2006, 12:32:52 PM »


I never said windows is awesome.  I didn't intend to imply that anything not Mac is windows. Why would you think that?

Maybe because I was responding to your post that did imply that you were talking about Windows.
Quote
I said that a couple years ago but now that they use a unix OS with Intel Processors what do they have on a PC other than perhaps the percieved prestige of being willing to pay twice as much?

For years, people have referred to Windows based machines as a PC and Apples Macintosh’s as Mac’s. Now you could claim that you meant ‘personal computers’ when you said ‘PC’ in which case, you would have to include ‘Mac’s’ as a ‘PC’, which would make what you said nonsensical.  So, yeah whether intentional or not, you did imply that you were talking about Windows as compared to Macintoshes.

Quote
I ran OS/2 warp for awhile and liked it fine.  Too bad they got their ass kicked on the price point and no one made software for it.  The whole industry would be better off today for the increased competition.

That’s fine. From everything I hear OS/2 was a good OS. I think that there is plenty of competition for the OS market though. If an OS like Linux which is free, fast and secure, cannot gain market share against Windows, whose ONLY advantage is ‘mind share’ then I doubt OS/2 would fare much better.

Quote
I'm right about what?  That my tower is under the desk?  How would you know?  That I haven't found the quality of my PC hardware to be insufficient?  How would you know?  That I build my computers for cheap cuz I get all my parts wholesale...  how would you know? The rest of it was questions....  If you don't have good answers..... fine

All right, if you really want the answers, here goes.

1) more secure than what?  All OS's available on any platform?
No, just windows

2) easier to use than what?  + easy is what you know. 
Windows. I’ll give you the ‘easy is what you know’ bit.
If you are unwilling to learn how to use a computer, then using a typewriter to type up your documents would be easier. That does not make a typewriter easier for word processing in general, just for that one person.

3) faster than what?
Again, its nice that you are trying to backpedal, but we all know that you were talking about Windows, if you meant something  else, you should have been more clear.

4) yeah.... probably prettier but My tower is under the desk.
I wasn’t referring to the hardware; (although you might have a point there in general) I was referring to how nice OSX looks in comparison to Windows.
Widows Vista’s ‘Arrow Glass’ interface is just a lame attempt to be ape OSX’s GUI, which it has had for years, and runs on much more modest hardware.

5) now that they've switched to intel they're just another PC
Mac’s are not PC’s (see above). But if you mean Personal Computer, then what made them ‘not a PC’ when they were using their Power PC architecture?
It may be ‘just another PC’ but with a higher quality OS.

6)  I build my own... It's twice as much.
So you are comparing a pre-built computer with one you put together?
Okay, I guess maybe you have a point there, but I would challenge you to build one cheaper than you can order the exact same one from Dell.
But, ,to go back to my original point, If you compare a pre-built Windows box with a pre-built Mac, I give you that Mac’s are a little more expensive, but twice as much? I am not so sure.

Quote
better quality than what?....  My hardware doesn't typically break faster than I replace it for other reasons.  I've had one HD go out after 5 years....  that's understandable, after 5 years it was time for more storage space.... storing massive amounts of audio/video had become practical and cheap in the last 5 years.  and one heavily used 4x CD burner crap out on me.  It was time to get a faster burner anyway.

Well, if you want to use personal anecdotes as a way of proving your point, I have a old G3 ‘Power Mac’ that is 7 years old. Everything on it still works perfectly. Including the CD ROM drive.

Quote
I'll go on thinking extreme mac defenders are crazy cultists who can't give good answers about why macs are better.

Think whatever you want, I am by no means an ‘extreme Mac defender’.
If I were to say to you that using a bic lighter to start fires is a better way to start fires than rubbing two sticks together, then I suppose I would be an “extreme bic defender” to you. I just happen to use all 3 OS’s (XP, OSX, and Linux).
I also pay attention. Windows is plagued by spyware, viruses, and a bloated, inefficient and insecure OS.

Quote
More so now that the Macs they say are sooo great have so much in common with the PC's they've been insulting for years.

The only thing that they have in common is the hardware.
I have not been insulting PC’s, I have been honest about them, but I am not a crazy Mac zealot.
But you sound kind of like the crazy windows zealots that I have heard insulting the Mac for years who “can’t give good answers about why” Windows machines are better.
Logged

Ecolitan

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3244
    • View Profile
Re: Apple, Microsoft, or Linux?
« Reply #63 on: November 21, 2006, 08:19:43 AM »


I never said windows is awesome.  I didn't intend to imply that anything not Mac is windows. Why would you think that?

Maybe because I was responding to your post that did imply that you were talking about Windows.
Quote
I said that a couple years ago but now that they use a unix OS with Intel Processors what do they have on a PC other than perhaps the percieved prestige of being willing to pay twice as much?
I specifically mentioned a Unix OS here.  The "implication" is that similar OS's are available on other platforms and Windows does not fit that description.  I wasn't talking about windows.  What I intended to imply is that a few years ago the lack of convenience of right button functionality was enough to dissuade me from a system that I thought might have several advantages.  Now that Macs use unix and I can get that on a PC if I want it.  Than the old advantages of macs are gone to me.  I totally didn't include windows in the equation.  Not in text nor in my head.

For years, people have referred to Windows based machines as a PC and Apples Macintosh’s as Mac’s. Now you could claim that you meant ‘personal computers’ when you said ‘PC’ in which case, you would have to include ‘Mac’s’ as a ‘PC’, which would make what you said nonsensical.  So, yeah whether intentional or not, you did imply that you were talking about Windows as compared to Macintoshes.

That PC thing has always been a pet peeve of mine.  Macs ARE personal computers and that's why in the course of this conversation I've tried to use "other platforms" and similar phrases.  I don't think I was entirely consistent with that.  Unfortunately I don't know of another term to differentiate "IBM compatible" is no longer accurate.  But again here...  the assumption that "PC's" in the commonly used sense are windows based is your assumption and not mine.  From the beginning my whole point was that unix based OS's are available for "other platforms" and therefore the unix OS available for the Mac is not a selling point for me.


Quote
I'm right about what?  That my tower is under the desk?  How would you know?  That I haven't found the quality of my PC hardware to be insufficient?  How would you know?  That I build my computers for cheap cuz I get all my parts wholesale...  how would you know? The rest of it was questions....  If you don't have good answers..... fine

All right, if you really want the answers, here goes.

1) more secure than what?  All OS's available on any platform?
No, just windows
Quote
My point exactly

Quote
2) easier to use than what?  + easy is what you know. 
Windows. I’ll give you the ‘easy is what you know’ bit.
If you are unwilling to learn how to use a computer, then using a typewriter to type up your documents would be easier. That does not make a typewriter easier for word processing in general, just for that one person.

also my point exactly


Quote
3) faster than what?
Again, its nice that you are trying to backpedal, but we all know that you were talking about Windows, if you meant something  else, you should have been more clear.

uh.... no I wasn't.    I guess my original "now that they use a unix OS with Intel Processors what do they have on a PC" was not enough for you to realize that unix OS's are available for PC's.  I am not under the impression that everything NOT mac is windows based.  In an online community I don't know anyone who is....except you.

Quote
4) yeah.... probably prettier but My tower is under the desk.
I wasn’t referring to the hardware; (although you might have a point there in general) I was referring to how nice OSX looks in comparison to Windows.
Widows Vista’s ‘Arrow Glass’ interface is just a lame attempt to be ape OSX’s GUI, which it has had for years, and runs on much more modest hardware.

That's a non-issue for me anyway. 

Quote
5) now that they've switched to intel they're just another PC
Mac’s are not PC’s (see above). But if you mean Personal Computer, then what made them ‘not a PC’ when they were using their Power PC architecture?
It may be ‘just another PC’ but with a higher quality OS.

let's not revisit the PC argument.  I've been using it in it's commonly accepted form.  The higher quality OS is what we're talking about.  Higher quality than what?  At this point I have to assume that you're comparing everything to windows which I believe is a mistake, one that I did not make.  Which brings us finally to a topic that I DO have some interest in.  What makes the mac OS so great?  Not what makes it better than windows?  But everything else.  I've used OSX and It wsa totally frustrating that it took so much moving around of the mouse and single clicking to do what I'm used to doing with a stationary right click.  I know there are other concerns like stability and security but this particular mac was always giving me the spinning beach ball.  I can't speak to security.  I run my old financial software on an old computer that's NOT connected to the internet.

Quote
6)  I build my own... It's twice as much.
So you are comparing a pre-built computer with one you put together?
Okay, I guess maybe you have a point there, but I would challenge you to build one cheaper than you can order the exact same one from Dell.
But, ,to go back to my original point, If you compare a pre-built Windows box with a pre-built Mac, I give you that Mac’s are a little more expensive, but twice as much? I am not so sure.

Dell is getting competitive and the real savings is in software packages although most of that software I don't need or want so I couldn't put it all in the savings column.  I haven't built one for a few years and I probably couldn't compete if I payed retail for parts but I know a guy.

Quote
Quote
better quality than what?....  My hardware doesn't typically break faster than I replace it for other reasons.  I've had one HD go out after 5 years....  that's understandable, after 5 years it was time for more storage space.... storing massive amounts of audio/video had become practical and cheap in the last 5 years.  and one heavily used 4x CD burner crap out on me.  It was time to get a faster burner anyway.

Well, if you want to use personal anecdotes as a way of proving your point, I have a old G3 ‘Power Mac’ that is 7 years old. Everything on it still works perfectly. Including the CD ROM drive.

And good for you.  I have a pentium pro 200 that's approximately the same age.  I got it free so I don't know when it was built but I know I was supporting them 10 years ago.  My point was that I'm OK with my hardware.  That you are also OK with yours doesn't change things. 


Quote
I'll go on thinking extreme mac defenders are crazy cultists who can't give good answers about why macs are better.

[quoteThink whatever you want, I am by no means an ‘extreme Mac defender’.
If I were to say to you that using a bic lighter to start fires is a better way to start fires than rubbing two sticks together, then I suppose I would be an “extreme bic defender” to you. I just happen to use all 3 OS’s (XP, OSX, and Linux).
I also pay attention. Windows is plagued by spyware, viruses, and a bloated, inefficient and insecure OS.
Quote

what betrays you as an extreme mac defender is your assumption that this conversation is about windows.  That's something YOU brought to this table... not me.  Also that you haven't told me one real aspect whether hardware of software that makes a mac so secure or stable or anything else.  If it's really got something going for it and you know what that is wouldn't be willing to tell me as best you understand it.  Whether it's they way it handles internet traffic or prevents data loss....  anything.

Quote
Quote
More so now that the Macs they say are sooo great have so much in common with the PC's they've been insulting for years.

The only thing that they have in common is the hardware.
I have not been insulting PC’s, I have been honest about them, but I am not a crazy Mac zealot.
But you sound kind of like the crazy windows zealots that I have heard insulting the Mac for years who “can’t give good answers about why” Windows machines are better.



If you want me to agree that windows is bloated, inneffecient, insecure and susceptible to spyware that's a no brainer.  Yes windows is all those things.

But I'm not talking about windows...  never was.  I'm talking about Intel/nvidia and friends and Unix OS's. 

Furthermore, I never made a claim that windows was better.  More like willing to accept the assumption that at one point Macs WERE better but now that they've undergone this drastic overhaul why are they STILL better?  You said the only thing they have in common is the hardware.... well what makes OSX so much better than Fedora Redhat (to pull an OS out of my.....brother's persona)?  There could be something amazing about OSX that easily answers that question.  I don't know what that is.  If you do....  by all means let me know.  But saying that windows sucks does not accomplish that.

So far what I've got is that they're prettier and not quite as much more expensive as I thought.  I'm willing to accept that.  Not enough to convince me to buy one but hey....  It's an answer.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2006, 08:39:41 AM by Roycerson »
Logged

Brian Wolf

  • Guest
Re: Apple, Microsoft, or Linux?
« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2006, 09:58:26 AM »

Quote
I said that a couple years ago but now that they use a unix OS with Intel Processors what do they have on a PC other than perhaps the percieved prestige of being willing to pay twice as much?

I specifically mentioned a Unix OS here.  The "implication" is that similar OS's are available on other platforms and Windows does not fit that description.  I wasn't talking about windows.  What I intended to imply is that a few years ago the lack of convenience of right button functionality was enough to dissuade me from a system that I thought might have several advantages.  Now that Macs use unix and I can get that on a PC if I want it.  Than the old advantages of macs are gone to me.  I totally didn't include windows in the equation.  Not in text nor in my head.
For years, people have referred to Windows based machines as a PC and Apples Macintosh’s as Mac’s. Now you could claim that you meant ‘personal computers’ when you said ‘PC’ in which case, you would have to include ‘Mac’s’ as a ‘PC’, which would make what you said nonsensical.  So, yeah whether intentional or not, you did imply that you were talking about Windows as compared to Macintoshes.
Quote
That PC thing has always been a pet peeve of mine.  Macs ARE personal computers and that's why in the course of this conversation I've tried to use "other platforms" and similar phrases.  I don't think I was entirely consistent with that.  Unfortunately I don't know of another term to differentiate "IBM compatible" is no longer accurate.  But again here...  the assumption that "PC's" in the commonly used sense are windows based is your assumption and not mine.  From the beginning my whole point was that unix based OS's are available for "other platforms" and therefore the unix OS available for the Mac is not a selling point for me.
Quote
let's not revisit the PC argument.  I've been using it in it's commonly accepted form.
Quote
what betrays you as an extreme mac defender is your assumption that this conversation is about windows.  That's something YOU brought to this table... not me

What I said before still stands.
Now you could claim that you meant ‘personal computers’ when you said ‘PC’ in which case, you would have to include ‘Mac’s’ as a ‘PC’, which would make what you said nonsensical.
because to translate, now that I know that you did mean ALL ‘personal computers’ when you said PC’s, I will restate your original statement.
“ … but now that personal computers use a Unix OS with Intel processors what do personal computers have on personal computers other than perhaps the perceived prestige of being willing to pay twice as much?"
In your original statement,
Quote
“I said that a couple years ago but now that they use a unix OS with Intel Processors what do they have on a PC other than perhaps the percieved prestige of being willing to pay twice as much?”
You were comparing Mac’s to a PC, so you were definitely not including Mac’s as a PC, which is misleading, if you really meant to say “all other OS’s (except windows)”
Regardless of your pet peeve, it is standard among most people to use the term PC to mean a computer with a Microsoft based OS. (Dos/Windows).
Example
Personally, I have always thought this was lame myself, but there isn’t much I can do about that.
I don’t like that most people use the term ‘tribalism’ to refer to a pattern of thought that pretends a superiority of your group to all other groups. Personally, I think that is way more a product of ‘civilization’ than actual tribalism. I could invent the word ‘civilizationism’ and use that instead, but no one but me would know what I was talking about. If I did use that term in a conversation, and I did not want people to be confused, I would explain what I meant by that term.

Quote
What makes the mac OS so great?  Not what makes it better than windows?  But everything else.  I've used OSX and It wsa totally frustrating that it took so much moving around of the mouse and single clicking to do what I'm used to doing with a stationary right click.

Mac OS X has featured support for two-button mice since day one. They don’t ship with them (unless you upgrade to a 'mighty mouse' ..yuck) because Steve Jobs is a megalomaniac, but 2 button USB mice are cheap. I am sure that you have one lying around.

Quote
I know there are other concerns like stability and security but this particular mac was always giving me the spinning beach ball.
 
That is odd. I never have problems with mine. All of the Comps that I have available to use at work are old G4 iMac’s. They get used by dozens of students a day and after years of hard work, they all still work just fine.

Quote
I can't speak to security.  I run my old financial software on an old computer that's NOT connected to the internet.

I can, they are more secure (to Windows, which is what I was talking about). That you don’t care about security is cool. Most people would consider ‘security’ a feature.

Quote
You said the only thing they have in common is the hardware.... well what makes OSX so much better than Fedora Redhat (to pull an OS out of my.....brother's persona)?  There could be something amazing about OSX that easily answers that question.  I don't know what that is.

Well, I never made the claim that Mac’s were better than ‘nix systems. But having had experience installing several versions of Linux and FreeBSD I would say that OS X does have a couple of advantages. Not saying that it is better overall.
*It is much easier to install than most ‘nix systems. Even Ubuntu which was the easiest Linux install that I have experienced isn’t nearly as easy as installing OSX.
*It is focused on usability. Most ‘nix systems assume a certain level of knowledge beforehand, I was completely new to OS X when I got my G3, and I never had to crack open a manual or even search online for how to do anything until I started doing more advanced stuff like installing X11 and messing with Darwin. Now this may not matter as much to people who are command line wizards, but for someone who prefers a GUI it really improves productivity.
That’s about it really; I actually prefer Free and Open source software.
Mostly on principle,  but FOSS does have its advantages too.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2006, 10:06:49 AM by Brian Wolf »
Logged

Ecolitan

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3244
    • View Profile
Re: Apple, Microsoft, or Linux?
« Reply #65 on: November 21, 2006, 10:18:31 AM »

Wow, you people should really spend your time doing something productive!  You're just spinning your wheels arguing this minutia...

tell me about it.  Right after my first post I knew I done screwed up getting involved in a battle of the PC's.  Especially when I really don't have any strong opinions either way.  But now I'm here so I might as well run with it.  I have some time off.  If I weren't doing this I'd be playing Rome: Total War
Logged

aquabanianskakid

  • Guest
Re: Apple, Microsoft, or Linux?
« Reply #66 on: November 21, 2006, 10:36:45 AM »

Yeah I've also lost interest. Anyone wanna play parcheesi?
Logged

badinfluence

  • Guest
Re: Apple, Microsoft, or Linux?
« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2006, 12:49:33 PM »

Linux all the way.

I use SuSe, but might have to rethink that option now - too bad, I like the OS.

I find Apple users are cult victims in a world of PC superiority.  Most people that use them on a regular basis are sheeple.

They either like the way they look, or feel they want a superior computer to surf the web, type a letter or instant message.

There are some people that "need" the apple.  But, my video editing on my XP machine is far superior to my buddies G5 (it was also a lot cheaper to beef up the machine!).

Now, if I had good video editing (there are already some decent audio programs) on linux - then I wouldn't even need XP!

Jonathan
Logged

aquabanianskakid

  • Guest
Re: Apple, Microsoft, or Linux?
« Reply #68 on: November 23, 2006, 08:28:57 PM »

Haha great picture. I've seen some made into PCs as well as fish tanks.
Logged

Zhwazi

  • Recovering Ex-Anarchocapitalist
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3102
    • View Profile
    • Ana.rchist.net
Re: Apple, Microsoft, or Linux?
« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2006, 06:32:24 AM »

Ubuntu Linux.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5]   Go Up
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  The Polling Pit
| | |-+  Apple, Microsoft, or Linux?

// ]]>

Page created in 0.027 seconds with 37 queries.