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Author Topic: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.  (Read 9055 times)

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johngalt

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Re: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2011, 02:34:36 AM »

Hi,
Seems sorta' like shooting 'fish in a barrel'.
Inviting 'the choir' to your seminar.
Why not propose the same questions to those that are not of 'like mind' and have drunk the kool-aide?
Perhaps trust those whom have only and always had your best interests in mind. Consider, perhaps, that you've been wrong.
Anyway. A modest proposal.
--john galt
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John Shaw

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Re: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2011, 03:45:09 AM »

Hi,
Seems sorta' like shooting 'fish in a barrel'.
Inviting 'the choir' to your seminar.
Why not propose the same questions to those that are not of 'like mind' and have drunk the kool-aide?
Perhaps trust those whom have only and always had your best interests in mind. Consider, perhaps, that you've been wrong.
Anyway. A modest proposal.
--john galt

Yeah why don't you start a thread doing exactly that? Seems like a good opportunity for adding something to the board rather than subtracting something from this particular thread, you know?

Post a new thread. Let the market decide.

"...those whom have only and always had your best interests in mind."

By that you mean specifically the implication that non-believers will be tortured for eternity for not joining, yes? Don't answer that, I already know.

Again, this thread is going to be for the subject stated in the title and will not devolve into a religious debate thread. Also, the Serious Business part of the board has a zero tolerance policy for any sort of abuse or nastiness between users. Passive aggressive potshots count.

Make a thread reflecting your suggested topic, and don't use it as a platform to attack or criticize the decisions of other people on the Serious Business board. Otherwise take it to the Rubber Room, please.
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dalebert

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Re: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2011, 07:39:25 AM »

At age 21, a Christian boy I was quite seriously dating broke up with me because his minister told him he was spending too much time with me and not enough time with God.

WOW! Read between the lines of that one! When you're temporarily Earth-bound, who do you go to to "be with" God?  :?

Fred

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Re: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2011, 11:36:55 AM »

Hi,
Seems sorta' like shooting 'fish in a barrel'.
Inviting 'the choir' to your seminar.
Why not propose the same questions to those that are not of 'like mind' and have drunk the kool-aide?
Perhaps trust those whom have only and always had your best interests in mind. Consider, perhaps, that you've been wrong.
Anyway. A modest proposal.
--john galt

Exactly what the FUCK, are you trying to say?  Can't you make more sense to the normal blue collar working man?
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Level 20 Anklebiter

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Re: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2011, 11:39:00 AM »

I'd say I'm spiritual, but not religious anymore. The trappings of ritual are tiring.
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mikehz

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Re: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2011, 06:28:27 PM »

I was a good Lutheran in high school right up until I decided to read the Bible. Less than half way through, I realized the thing is bullshit.

I think the Bible should perhaps be required reading in high school. It would break the back of fundamentalism. 
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mikehz

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Re: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2011, 09:09:39 PM »

Couldn't buy the magic tree or talking snakes, eh?
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John Shaw

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Re: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2011, 12:48:25 AM »

I mean, I can't believe we're even having a serious discussion on this crap.

Mainly for people, as you said, were brainwashed as children.

This is a place they can talk about what led them away from said brainwashing.
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2011, 01:30:41 AM »

Quote
Couldn't buy the magic tree or talking snakes, eh?
No thinking person can believe that crap. People only believe it because they want to fit in or they were brainwashed into it as a child. I mean, I can't believe we're even having a serious discussion on this crap.
And you're an idiot.
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latebloomer

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Re: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2011, 08:07:15 AM »

I mean, I can't believe we're even having a serious discussion on this crap.

Mainly for people, as you said, were brainwashed as children.

This is a place they can talk about what led them away from said brainwashing.

The whole point of most (or all?) religions is to indoctrinate or brainwash children as young as possible, and keep it going, so money can be milked out of them for as long as possible. If you're taught from birth that there is an omnipotent, omnipresent being somewhere "up there," watching and judging your every move, and you're young enough to believe it, then walking away or even questioning it is the hardest thing a person can do. I count "deconverteds" (from religion altogether) to be among the bravest people I know (myself included) - some religions more than others because of the threat of physical violence. Technically, the bible dictates that my friends and family not only shun me because I don't believe, but it also says they should kill me. Luckily, they aren't as fundamental as they think they are. They might shun me (not everyone knows - those that do are fine with it), but they won't kill me.

I can only speak from the perspective of an Evangelical/Fundy Baptist background. They start you out very young, as early as 18 months or so, with bible story books, full of the most popular stories that have been sanitized  - as best as they can - you don't really see or hear the real bible for some time. Other books full of morality tales are popular; my dentist's office had a stack of them (they're given out for free a lot of the time). I still remember one story about a mother who left her sleeping baby in the house to run to the store for milk (although the illustrations made her look like a painted whore) and while she was gone, the cat or something knocked over the lamp (these were old stories) and the house burned down with the baby inside. (I would have been 4-6 years old when I read that.)

Simultaneously, all authority (parents, pastors, Sunday school teachers, pretty much every adult in the place) is set on breaking your will. Obedience is the goal; independent thought is frowned upon. I've seen it in action even recently: kids being taught to say "yes, mommy" and obey without question. I even knew a family that spanked their infant because she cried when she wasn't hungry, sick or wet/poopy (this was probably in the late 70s, early 80s - there is a shitton more of those freaks following the Pearls). Little wonder that there is so much sexual abuse in churches. They fucking raise the kids to lay down/bend over and take it.

By the time you're reading the real bible, you are mostly ready to believe whatever other people say it says and most believers don't read the nuances. Hell, I can honestly say that I read the whole thing cover-to-cover, but I have to have been only half paying attention because the story of Japeth's daughter never clicked. Or Job - offering his daughters to the angry mob to save the angelic visitors - being such a virtuous man.

The teaching is full of contradiction - god cast Adam and Eve out of Eden because they listened to a talking snake and became self-aware, destroying all human life on earth (except for one family), Job, Japeth's daughter - such an evil bastard, really, then suddenly, you turn the page and it's the new testament and the same vengeful guy is loving and caring and wonderful. Jesus was the ultimate PR spin. A lot of shit is forgiven/forgotten in the bible because of jesus. He loves the little children, you know.

They never got me entirely, which is why I think I was able to walk away, even if it took a long time. I was indoctrinated, but not 100% because my dad wasn't especially religious. Of course, he let me be trucked to church from the age of 2 or earlier, but was okay with questions and even encouraged me to consider breaking the rules if the rules were stupid (as long as I understood that I might still get in trouble with those in authority if I got caught). The fact that my parents weren't united in my religious upbringing saved me, eventually.

I know people that have this tiny worm of doubt, but they keep burying it. They're all "la la la, I don't want to hear it," (literally, except maybe for the la la la part, I've heard those exact words) because they can't risk doubting their faith. Odd, since if it's true, it should be able to withstand a little investigation. To them, it's far scarier to risk separation from their social group (which church is when you get down to it) and of course eternity in hell (if it exists) than look closely at the evidence. In a lot of ways, I don't blame them. It is fucking scary. What helped me a lot is that my social group (my church) turned its back on me first. So I got some distance and the threat of losing it couldn't be effective. That was an additional chink that led me to serious questions.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 08:11:28 AM by latebloomer »
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Fred

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Re: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2011, 10:46:03 AM »

Everyone has to decide for him or herself what's true and what's not. 

Its not a simple decision.  And, the answers are not all there....
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alaric89

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Re: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2011, 11:43:57 AM »

Quote
Couldn't buy the magic tree or talking snakes, eh?
No thinking person can believe that crap. People only believe it because they want to fit in or they were brainwashed into it as a child. I mean, I can't believe we're even having a serious discussion on this crap.
And you're an idiot.
I don't believe us religious people should comment on this thread. We were clearly not invited and I respectively kept my nose out of it. If you would like to discuss general belief from a liberty perspective, I would be happy to discuss it on a fresh thread. I happen to know at least two of the newer posters are not Atheists.

MOE from between St. Joe's River and the railroad tracks

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Re: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2011, 03:42:43 PM »

I think I was way too harsh on religious people with my previous comment so I deleted it.

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2011, 04:09:07 PM »

I think I was way too harsh on religious people with my previous comment so I deleted it.
No, it's just that you're missing the point.  Most people who would consider themselves religious would say that they think the story of Genesis is a parable.

If anyone actually believes word for word many things in the Bible, then your description might be correct.
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MOE from between St. Joe's River and the railroad tracks

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Re: The I ain't religious no more but I used ta be thread.
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2011, 04:54:47 PM »

Quote
No, it's just that you're missing the point.  Most people who would consider themselves religious would say that they think the story of Genesis is a parable.

If anyone actually believes word for word many things in the Bible, then your description might be correct

Maybe the bible should come with a disclaimer that says, "This is a parable which one must NOT take seriously"?

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