Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  Serious Business
| | |-+  Family
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: Family  (Read 12228 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sanchopanza

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Family
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2011, 05:30:46 PM »

That's a very utilitarian way of maintaining a relationship with anyone, let alone family.

Don't associate with bad people. That is absolutely utilitarian and it is also moral. And I will do as I please, thanks very much.

Families do drift apart. Varied interests and work schedules often prevent interaction until a holiday forces our hand and we interact with virtual strangers.

Who is this "we"? Got a mouse in your pocket? You're collectivizing there.

However, I demonstrate no virtue in loving those that love me in return. That's E-A-S-Y....and selfish.

I demonstrate real virtue by loving those that can, or don't, give me a thing in return, are unpopular and/or unloveable. In other words, selflessly. I should love others, especially family, regardless whether they love me back.

Everything you say in this part of your post is the opposite of what is good and true. Selflessness is not a virtue. Rand covered this in 1943 and codified it in 1957 fairly well.

This is many times difficult and painful. I  only grow as a human being when I'm stretched out of my 'comfort zone'; when I do what I KNOW is right vs what I FEEL like doing. When I act out of conviction instead of simply reacting.

What you "KNOW is right" is wrong. Altruism is for suckers.

If I withhold relationship from anyone in my family I'm committing violence against them, albeit covert, but violence just the same.  

Incorrect, also stockholm syndrome.

I'd give you advice but you probably won't listen, so I'll just hope you eventually see how self abuse isn't any better than abuse from others and wish you good luck.

But look, it's your life, right, go do what you want and if you think you have an obligation to associate with bad people then by all means go ahead and enjoy it, or not enjoy it for the sake of your interpretation of what is virtuous if that suits you.

But I have to disagree and reject with great distaste your definition of virtue and absolutely refuse to acknowledge it as valid.

Also, the claim that me NOT giving something to someone else is the initiation of violence is absolutely absurd, and logic like that could be turned right around and applied as an argument for pretty much any power the state currently wields. So double ick on that.

<<<Goes to shower off the icky.


I simply expressed my opinion. I don't expect you to embrace it any more than I hope you expect me to embrace yours.

Thanks for posting your reply.

Logged
"If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them." -Samuel Adams

John Shaw

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17244
    • View Profile
    • Think Twice Productions
Re: Family
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2011, 06:14:08 PM »

I simply expressed my opinion. I don't expect you to embrace it any more than I hope you expect me to embrace yours.

Right on. Just keep in mind that when you throw the word "virtue" around you're sorta claiming a moral high ground and you'll draw the attention of people who don't agree with your definition of what virtue is, and they will question it.

Also, you tossed the word "Utilitarian" into the mix in regards to my view of family...

Taking a moral stance about not associating with bad people is not utilitarian at all. As a matter of fact, in an immoral world, refusing to deal with people who are immoral is sorta the opposite of utility. It would qualify as quite the inconvenience most of the time. So I take back my acceptance of your comment about my views being utilitarian. It's fucking hard to try to be the good guy in a world of bad guys, even at the cost of separating yourself from family.

So utilitarian? No. Practical? Yes. Easy? Hell no. Right? Damn skippy.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 06:21:42 PM by John Shaw »
Logged
"btw its not a claim. Its documented fact."

sanchopanza

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Family
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2011, 08:10:59 PM »

I simply expressed my opinion. I don't expect you to embrace it any more than I hope you expect me to embrace yours.

Right on. Just keep in mind that when you throw the word "virtue" around you're sorta claiming a moral high ground and you'll draw the attention of people who don't agree with your definition of what virtue is, and they will question it.

Also, you tossed the word "Utilitarian" into the mix in regards to my view of family...

Taking a moral stance about not associating with bad people is not utilitarian at all. As a matter of fact, in an immoral world, refusing to deal with people who are immoral is sorta the opposite of utility. It would qualify as quite the inconvenience most of the time. So I take back my acceptance of your comment about my views being utilitarian. It's fucking hard to try to be the good guy in a world of bad guys, even at the cost of separating yourself from family.

So utilitarian? No. Practical? Yes. Easy? Hell no. Right? Damn skippy.

Thanks for correcting me.  When you express it the way you did this time, I can't but agree.

Logged
"If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them." -Samuel Adams

mikehz

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8033
    • View Profile
    • Day by Day
Re: Family
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2011, 01:14:41 PM »

'Pends on the family. I have not spoken to any of my three brothers in years, and don't even know where one of them is. On the other hand, my two daughters, one 300 miles away and the other 3,000, call us nearly every day.

My wife's family of 13 brothers and sisters scattered around the country gets together for a reunion every other year. We hosted the last one, and it was a kick. This year, it is in Arizona, and just about everyone will be there, along with their spouses and kids.
Logged
"Force always attracts men of low morality." Albert Einstein

JDW

  • A sincere diplomat is like dry water or wooden iron.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Family
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2011, 07:52:30 AM »

I work in the evil public school system. I find every year more and more families go home and spend time together doing seperate things, all in the same room, but Mom's watching TV, dad's on the laptop and kids playing on the PSP.  See it during interviews, kids playing something on the mobile phone, dad's talking to one staff member and mom's talking to herself, or the kid or into her phone. I find lots of stuff very superficial, even friends feel upset sometimes when we spend time actually talking to each other instead of facebooking or some other social media shit. I stopped using facebook for that reason, I found it cut me off more than it connected me, at least to what I think is meaningful communication. I remember growing up and eating supper around the kitchen table, do it with my family, but l think more families today eat in their own little area. Biggest shock for me was coming back to North America after living in Europe and seeing how people don't even seem to sit down and eat, or even cook real food. Growing up I remember all my aunts, uncles and cousins stopping in to visit, nobody does that anymore, even people who live in the same city. We still get together for reunions but even those seem less social than back in the day. I feel because of social media etc. people don't really say, "Holy shit, I haven't seen you in a coons age, how the hell have ya been? Whatcha up to?" They've seen it all on the intertubes so it's like nobody has anything to talk about. I had a good family, still have a good family, some people don't, but be it family or friends. I think people need to connect to a real live community, and social media ain't it. Unless it helps create one, like Porcfest, what an awesome thing, I've never been but what a great event that is.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 07:56:26 AM by JDW »
Logged
"Don't know what you got till it's gone."
- Cinderella
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  Serious Business
| | |-+  Family

// ]]>

Page created in 0.024 seconds with 32 queries.