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John Shaw

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Cataclysmic interactions with the state.
« on: October 21, 2011, 01:54:58 PM »

Ever been arrested? Jailed? Harassed by gooberment? Did it influence or set you onto the path to liberty thinking?

Share your personal story of abuse by thugs here.
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Re: Cataclysmic interactions with the state.
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2011, 02:11:34 PM »

I try to stay away from those kinds of interactions with the state.  I value my freedom too much to "go to jail for freedom".
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John Shaw

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Re: Cataclysmic interactions with the state.
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2011, 02:31:54 PM »

I try to stay away from those kinds of interactions with the state.  I value my freedom too much to "go to jail for freedom".

Yeah, but I don't mean activism. I'm just talking bummer experiences with the state that may have influenced your views.

Example - When I was eighteen, a buddy and I went to Meijer (Big department store, like a Super Walmart) and were walking around. I went because I wanted to buy a jar of black powder. (Making homemade fireworks) Anyway, this friend grabs a cassette tape and I guess a frog spear tip and stuffs them into his pants.

Mind you, I have no idea he did this.

He was 17, I was 18.

We go to leave and get stopped at the door. My friend bolts. I stand there looking confused.

Police are called.

I get held and cited for "Second Degree Retail Fraud"

My friend gets caught exiting the wooded area behind the store by police, after an hour long game of hide and seek. He was apparently climbing trees and waiting for them to pass by and jumping down and all sorts of ninja shit.

I go home.

They never send me paperwork or anything. A court date comes and goes. The next day my friend calls me and asks why I didn't show up at the courthouse. I immediately go up there with my father (I didn't live with him, I was in my own place at 17 and a few months) and try to explain that I never received notification.

They throw me into the tank for two hours and almost arrest my father for screaming at them for several minutes. The tank was this jail looking room right off of the court room. Stunk and was creepy and grimy.

They let me out and reschedule court after we have to pay $200 to get me out of the tank.

I show up to new court date.

My whole family is there, the friend who stole the shit is there. The friend who stole the shit admits that I knew nothing and had nothing to do with the theft.

He gets six months probation. I get two years probation, during which time I am required to show evidence that I am in school (Yes, including college), 80 hours of community service, and I have to take classes about retail fraud.

Mind you I was what you would call a GOOD FUCKING KID by the mainstream definition. I didn't smoke, drink, or use drugs. I had my own place, two jobs, and was in school.

None of that mattered to Judge Gail "Maximum" McKnight. (That was her actual nickname)

At the end of all of this, I have to stand in front of her again and talk to her about how good a boy I've been and explain my personal life to her. Yes, I stayed in school, here's is my Cert of Outstanding attendance, Here is my cert for outstanding achievement, here is my nomination for a student category Academy Award for Best Animated Short (Not kidding) etc etc.

Bitch then sat in that chair and mused about how she did the right thing because of how well I was doing for myself and then complimented me on being a good boy.

That night I went out and committed my first premeditated crime ever, by driving through town and defacing just about every single stop sign in Plymouth, Michigan (Okay, it was exactly 40) by putting bumper stickers that said "Government" under the word "Stop"

Because fuck that stupid bitch.

That was in 1992 and I'm still pissed.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 02:34:26 PM by John Shaw »
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latebloomer

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Re: Cataclysmic interactions with the state.
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2011, 04:19:53 PM »

I've had a couple, although one was not directly. It hit close enough to home to be traumatic, though. Both left me with an innate fear of the police, even though my dad was an auxiliary officer (unpaid) from the time I was 3 or so until I was out of college.

1. When I was 18 or so, my dad and his buddy (another auxiliary cop) decided to switch the towns they volunteered through. They went from our little town to the village right next to it. My understanding was that the only reason was that they could have more hours/shifts with the new assignment. Well, soon after the switch, Dad came home and told my mother and I that we were going to have to be very careful driving through our little town. The cops had taken the switch very personally and the word was out that we were to be given tickets for any infraction - 1 mile over the speed limit, etc. Dad's partner told his wife and daughter (same age as me) the same thing. So for many months, I held my breath whenever driving through town (no more than 2 miles in any direction -- small town!), went a mile under the speed limit and stopped 3x as long as necessary at any stop signs.

2. 20 years ago, maybe longer, my dad's cousin was shot and killed by a rookie cop, while cousin was standing on his back steps in his underwear. That was bad enough. But to make matters worse, he and his partner concocted this elaborate story which had cousin attacking the rookie, who was only defending himself. The news showed footage of the back door - although cousin has supposedly jumped the cop in the yard, the blood splatter was all over the door, as if he had been standing in front of it when he was shot. It was played out in the news for several days, cousin (who was the gentlest, sweetest guy) made out to be a monster, until a couple of college girls (used to call them co-eds) came forward. IIRC, they did so through the press, because they were afraid to approach the police. They'd seen the whole thing: alarm at neighbor's house went off, when police went through his yard, cousin stepped out to tell them that the alarm went off all the time and that he'd already been over to check. Skittish rookie turned and shot without hesitating.
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hellbilly

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Re: Cataclysmic interactions with the state.
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2011, 11:59:00 PM »

Nothing cataclysmic for me.. was arrested for skateboarding on a sidewalk in Tampa once. Judge scoffed at me being in her court with all the rapists & thieves.. the guy sitting next to me had doused his woman with kerosene and tried to set her alight. Actually everyone scoffed when my charges were annonced, including the guy next to me.

But I thought I'd tell ya about how I avoided a bad interaction so maybe others can learn.

I was living in Orlando at the time and some friends from here & there came down to attend a big reptile convention. Along with their snakes & bugs & other critters they brought good drugs. There were probably a dozen of us, guys and gals, going from club to club and stopping at bars in between and we ended up in the big park downtown.

I had taken ecstasy and acid and then had a pretty bad low blood sugar event and was sitting on a bench eating a sub while some others were in the woods smoking a joint. Here comes a bicycle cop peddling towards me.. he asks where I put my pot. I'm not holding and haven't smoked and try to convince him I'm just hanging out having a bite. The others soon are ushered out of the trees by another bicycle cop.

They stand us in a circle and give the speech that all of us will be arrested unless whoever has the dope hands it over, so the gal who has a bag eventually gives it up. The cop then asks for her pipe too which she gives. Then the cop lectures us and throws the stuff into the pond. He orders us to leave the park, go to our cars and head outta town.

The people I rode with are all fucked up and shook up and do just as the cop said. But I noticed while we were walking that the bicycle cops are on their radios.. then as we get away from the bar district, two unmarked cars are pacing us, one a block or two behind and the other a street over. Me and a lady reckon that the cops want us to drive away (DUI) in our car where more drugs are kept (possession of who knows what) plus whatever infractions we rack up along the way (weaving, too many bodies piled up in the back).

So we decided to go back to a club instead. Was an awesome night that could have ended a lot differently.
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Cataclysmic interactions with the state.
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2011, 02:13:35 AM »

Just that one thing in HS that I got busted for. That thing I described the best I could about a year ago on here without saying exactly what it was...... That thing I dont wanna give details about because nowadays it would get you thrown in Gitmo, never to be heard from again. I'm certain of it.

I dont know if the experience put me on the path towards liberty at that young stage in my life, but I will say that it taught me that no matter how much govt officials seem to hate people on the other side of the political fence in public, in private they will cover each others asses to the end because they know that giving the other guy up will expose all the heinous stuff that they themselves have in their closet. I guess it did teach me, first hand, that there will never be such a thing as government "of, by and for the people" so long as there is a power structure involved somewhere down the line, because that kind of power corrupts.

Thick as thieves.
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LTKoblinsky

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Re: Cataclysmic interactions with the state.
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2011, 12:50:55 AM »

I actually had a lot of events in small towns in Oklahoma that made me believe in the state at the time. My family was heavily involved in drugs and so the police were constantly coming around. I thought my family was morally corrupt and wrong, so I actually approved of the police hauling off a drunk stepfather, detaining a violent, destructive brother, and seizing a vehicle a family member had been caught driving drunk and recklessly getting into accidents in. They also let me off several times for traffic violations because they weren't complete dicks.  Despite all of that, I still came out on the liberty side of the equation and recognize that my experience isn't indicative of the system as a whole and was still subjected to the same, sick incentive problems and moral hazards.
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MOE from between St. Joe's River and the railroad tracks

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Re: Cataclysmic interactions with the state.
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2011, 12:24:22 PM »

Quote
The people I rode with are all fucked up and shook up and do just as the cop said. But I noticed while we were walking that the bicycle cops are on their radios.. then as we get away from the bar district, two unmarked cars are pacing us, one a block or two behind and the other a street over. Me and a lady reckon that the cops want us to drive away (DUI) in our car where more drugs are kept (possession of who knows what) plus whatever infractions we rack up along the way (weaving, too many bodies piled up in the back).

So we decided to go back to a club instead. Was an awesome night that could have ended a lot differently.

You are incredibly lucky your friends had some sense. That could have been one bad night.

Me? I've only had to run from the cops once.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 12:57:12 PM by PV »
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Cataclysmic interactions with the state.
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2011, 12:49:29 PM »

Oh, man.  I guess my two or three stories were erased in the last great purge.  I've been unjustly arrested or otherwise persecuted three or four times (FWIW, I don't have a criminal record, but I did have to go to court, and pay an attorney.)
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Re: Cataclysmic interactions with the state.
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2011, 06:56:12 PM »

I've posted my story before, but I'll share it again:

I was driving home from the Delta on a straight-as-an-arrow four lane highway going 85 in a 70. I spotted the state trooper but it was too late and he got me for speeding. I wasn't converted at the time, so I obediently paid the fine without contesting the ticket in court. Unfortunately, I paid for the ticket using an old checkbook from an account that had been closed. It was at the same bank that my current account is at, so the check was identical to my current checks except for that pesky account number.

I mailed in the check and heard nothing further from the state. I assumed everything was fine. Six months later I get a nasty letter in the mail saying I never paid their fined and they had suspended my license and put a warrant out for my arrest. I was never contacted about the check bouncing.

My parents freaked out and took me down to the local sheriffs office and they kindly threw me in a jail cell and I had no idea what was going on for hours. Behind the scenes, the county where I had received the speeding ticket demanded I be thrown in jail and transferred to their custody before the fine could be paid. The sheriff in my county refused (the county where I got the ticket is very poor and crime ridden and he was concerned I'd get roughed up in their jail) and said he'd hold me here until my parents could drive down there to pay the fine. I was in jail about 4 hours over this nonsense, and I found out later that if my parents had been levelheaded and consulted an attorney first, I could have probably gotten out of the ticket entirely.

I took a few things away from this experience:
-The state is utterly ridiculous. They claimed they couldn't find my address to contact me about the bounced check, but their little love letter about the warrant for my arrest found me just fine.

-Speeding laws are bullshit and not about safety

-Sheriffs are a lot more reasonable than most police officers. Sheriffs in Mississippi do not carry radar in their car, so they generally only harass you if they get called out for something. I've spoken to a lot of them off duty and they are for the most part very reasonable people. When I was in high school several classmates said they got pulled over with beer in the car and the deputy confiscated it and let them go without writing a ticket. I've never seen sheriffs do a roadblock in my county either, its always the city cops or the highway patrol.

I think this event had a huge influence on my path to liberty. My brother loaned me Ron Paul's The Revolution to read a few months later and I switched from an Obama supporter and started learning more and more about freedom and liberty.
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Re: Cataclysmic interactions with the state.
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2011, 06:59:31 PM »

Sorry about your story. Government sucks.

Quote
When I was in high school several classmates said they got pulled over with beer in the car and the deputy confiscated it and let them go without writing a ticket.

Happened to a friend of mine too. He's white.

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Re: Cataclysmic interactions with the state.
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2011, 10:22:36 PM »

My first experience with the law was getting the shit kicked out of me by a gang of off-duty cops providing security at a Dead Show while I was tripping my balls off.

Buffalo, July 4th, 1989.  

In order to get out of the pokey, I had to sign a waiver stating I would not sue the City of Orchard Park, The Buffalo Bills NFL franchise, the New York State Police, The Grateful Dead, the private security firm.  I was a minor.  The off-duty cops were drunk.

Everything went downhill from there.

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Re: Cataclysmic interactions with the state.
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2011, 06:19:12 AM »

Had a run in with an extremely rude, power hungry cop tonight. I was riding passenger with my sister and her 7 year old girl(who is sick) was in the back seat. It was about 10 o'clock, my sister had to get some medicine from the store, I decided to ride with her. We pull in, and BAM red and blue lights start flashing. The cop struts up to her car like he was top cock, does the whole "license and registration" bit, my sister complies. He looks at me and asks me for my I.D.(I left it at home because who needs an ID to ride passenger?) I tell him I don't have it on me. He gets very pissy towards me, tells me I CAN'T go around without an I.D.

I give him my name, apparently I wasn't loud enough for him so he demands I speak up, at this point he seems like he's trying to provoke me or something. He leaves for a second,  comes back and asks my sister to step outside the car, well... The door on her side was stuck. He starts getting really upset, and two more cops pull in. At this point he's pretty much trying to rip the door off. He keeps telling me to stay in the car, the crazy thing is I never even moved an inch.

He pulls her door open, the door pretty much is hanging off at this point. He tells my sister that she has a charge and she's coming with him. No reading of rights, no explanation of her "charge", nothing. After sending her over to the other cops he looks at me and starts asking questions about my 7 year old niece(as if she's a threat), then says "I'm not going to sit here all night and baby sit you two" I'm 22 years old, and judging by this man's attitude, probably should have been baby sitting him. Every time I answered him correctly it seemed to make him more sarcastic and angry. He tells me he's leaving and I can do whatever I want, but I CAN'T move until he's out of the parking lot.

 It's 30 something degrees outside, about 10:30 at this point, the guy saw that my niece wasn't wearing socks, just crocs, and had the sniffles. His two cronies are just sitting around and I asked if they could give her a ride back to her house(a little under a mile) and I would walk, this was apparently too much for the guy. He came back to the window, told me the baby sitting line AGAIN, once more told me I can do whatever I want when he leaves. I believed he was trying to bait me into driving the car without a license.

I wait for all 3 of them to leave, I get my niece bundled up, and we start walking home. Funny thing is, the cops were actually trying to bait me into driving the car! They drove by us a couple times, I guess to make sure I wasn't driving my sister's car.

My sister gets released at about 11:30 or so, the guy at the station apparently told her that there was an error. She did get a ticket for no seat belt(she took it off when she pulled into the store), but the court date is written "1/1/2011". Unless she builds a time machine then I don't think she can make it.

Long story short: The cops tried to provoke a peaceful person, and forced a 7 year old girl(with the flu) to walk home at 10:30 P.M. in 30 degree weather all over an "error"
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 06:23:11 AM by tmk20201 »
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SeanD

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Re: Cataclysmic interactions with the state.
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2011, 11:50:21 AM »

Had a run in with an extremely rude, power hungry cop tonight. I was riding passenger with my sister and her 7 year old girl(who is sick) was in the back seat. It was about 10 o'clock, my sister had to get some medicine from the store, I decided to ride with her. We pull in, and BAM red and blue lights start flashing. The cop struts up to her car like he was top cock, does the whole "license and registration" bit, my sister complies. He looks at me and asks me for my I.D.(I left it at home because who needs an ID to ride passenger?) I tell him I don't have it on me. He gets very pissy towards me, tells me I CAN'T go around without an I.D.

I give him my name, apparently I wasn't loud enough for him so he demands I speak up, at this point he seems like he's trying to provoke me or something. He leaves for a second,  comes back and asks my sister to step outside the car, well... The door on her side was stuck. He starts getting really upset, and two more cops pull in. At this point he's pretty much trying to rip the door off. He keeps telling me to stay in the car, the crazy thing is I never even moved an inch.

He pulls her door open, the door pretty much is hanging off at this point. He tells my sister that she has a charge and she's coming with him. No reading of rights, no explanation of her "charge", nothing. After sending her over to the other cops he looks at me and starts asking questions about my 7 year old niece(as if she's a threat), then says "I'm not going to sit here all night and baby sit you two" I'm 22 years old, and judging by this man's attitude, probably should have been baby sitting him. Every time I answered him correctly it seemed to make him more sarcastic and angry. He tells me he's leaving and I can do whatever I want, but I CAN'T move until he's out of the parking lot.

 It's 30 something degrees outside, about 10:30 at this point, the guy saw that my niece wasn't wearing socks, just crocs, and had the sniffles. His two cronies are just sitting around and I asked if they could give her a ride back to her house(a little under a mile) and I would walk, this was apparently too much for the guy. He came back to the window, told me the baby sitting line AGAIN, once more told me I can do whatever I want when he leaves. I believed he was trying to bait me into driving the car without a license.

I wait for all 3 of them to leave, I get my niece bundled up, and we start walking home. Funny thing is, the cops were actually trying to bait me into driving the car! They drove by us a couple times, I guess to make sure I wasn't driving my sister's car.

My sister gets released at about 11:30 or so, the guy at the station apparently told her that there was an error. She did get a ticket for no seat belt(she took it off when she pulled into the store), but the court date is written "1/1/2011". Unless she builds a time machine then I don't think she can make it.

Long story short: The cops tried to provoke a peaceful person, and forced a 7 year old girl(with the flu) to walk home at 10:30 P.M. in 30 degree weather all over an "error"

Sounds like your sister is fucked for missing her court date.
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