Why the opposition to pacifism?

[Pizzly]

Ok, im gonna go out on a limb here and say that Russell Kanning is utterly full of shit if he really expects anyone to believe he would sit idly by while his wife was getting ass raped by some pigpen lookin ghetto hood rat right in the middle of their living room floor with the kid screaming for his mommy. Only reason someone says shit like that is because they are trying to show how ultra-passive they are by using the most extreme example even beyond their own level of passivism. Similar to vegetarians who claim they would starve to death on a life raft before they would eat a cheeseburger if it were the only food available.

I call  BULLSHIT

It's like the question "if you were starving would you steal food." I know the moral answer, I know what I should do, but there is a reasonable chance in such a dire situation that I will be overcome by deep uncontrollable emotions. If I comit the immoral act of violence, I can only ask for fogiveness.

[Riddler]

I find it troubling that becuse I am against causing violence, you feel I should die.

you are confused, mr. pizzly.
if violence is thrust upon thee, then you are certainly not ''the cause'' of said action, nor , by a defensive action, have you ''caused'' violence.
you did not instigate.
you reacted in self-preservation (automatic, in most people...like....breathing)
if your reaction to a threat on your life resulted in a ''violent'' action against the perpetrator, that is called survival.
see,  most times, soft-talk &  oprah-winfrey reasoning won't get the pcp-addled, knife-weilding madman to sit down and play jenga with you, until his head clears.
if your belief is that you should not, or cannot do the above, to save your life, or the life of another......well, welcome to the machine.

[Turd Ferguson]

Ok, im gonna go out on a limb here and say that Russell Kanning is utterly full of shit if he really expects anyone to believe he would sit idly by while his wife was getting ass raped by some pigpen lookin ghetto hood rat right in the middle of their living room floor with the kid screaming for his mommy. Only reason someone says shit like that is because they are trying to show how ultra-passive they are by using the most extreme example even beyond their own level of passivism. Similar to vegetarians who claim they would starve to death on a life raft before they would eat a cheeseburger if it were the only food available.

I call  BULLSHIT

It's like the question "if you were starving would you steal food." I know the moral answer, I know what I should do, but there is a reasonable chance in such a dire situation that I will be overcome by deep uncontrollable emotions. If I comit the immoral act of violence, I can only ask for fogiveness.

Exactly, self preservation is a very strong instinct that most people dont have the opportunity to see kick in. Its easy to say you wouldnt steal food when you live 2 blocks from a grocery store and loads of cash in the bank. Put that same person in a post-apocolyptic sci-fi situation with no means to pay for anything, and theres a chicken at the edge of someones yard thats lookin pretty tasty.......... yeah, well see what happens.

[John Shaw]

I absolutely disagree. It's strange, usually libertarian leaning indivuals see fallacies like "one of us must die." The fact I find it unethical to use force, even in response to a prior force, is not even the slightest admission that I would rather die.

You make many assumptions, but if we assumeI have no way to run, no way to pay, and no way to beg, and that this shotgun has lethal rounds, I would chose not to shoot. I'm not saying my life has less value, I obviously feel my life is of greater value, but that is not a justification for killing a person.

I need to say nothing here. Good luck with that boot on your neck.

[BonerJoe]

I'm wondering if this guy is a troll to get us to say how we might react violently.

[mrapplecastle]

lily liver

[Pizzly]

I'm wondering if this guy is a troll to get us to say how we might react violently.

Nah. I have been having issues lately though, I don't understand why it is okay to compromise moral prinicples depending on the situation. I ultimately believe doing violence is wrong, and because I believe in the self-ownership principle I cannot justify doing harm to another person under any circumstance.

[hellbilly]

lily liver

I think he's gotta yella belly too.

[BonerJoe]

I'm wondering if this guy is a troll to get us to say how we might react violently.

Nah. I have been having issues lately though, I don't understand why it is okay to compromise moral prinicples depending on the situation. I ultimately believe doing violence is wrong, and because I believe in the self-ownership principle I cannot justify doing harm to another person under any circumstance.

You should print that on a t-shirt and wear it.

[mrapplecastle]

lily liver

I think he's gotta yella belly too.

how do you know were talking about the same person?

I'm wondering if this guy is a troll to get us to say how we might react violently.

coming from you, that sounds like a threat

[BonerJoe]

coming from you, that sounds like a threat

1st warning.

[mrapplecastle]

coming from you, that sounds like a threat

1st warning.

about pointing out how youre a jackass?

[BonerJoe]

coming from you, that sounds like a threat

1st warning.

about?

The YerATroll.  YerATrolls are those whining forumites who devote a tremendous amount of time and energy complaining about the tremendous amount of time an energy expended by Troll Bashers and Angry Forumites on the practice of troll-hunting.  A self-righteous and hypocritical breed, YerATrolls spend all their time pointing fingers at everyone but trolls, petulantly demanding that their opinions be granted the significance the YerATroll believes they deserve.  YerATrolls often start threads excoriating others for troll-hunting, all the while completely oblivious to the fact that they're engaging in trolling by picking fights with everyone else.  One of the most ill-tempered of troll species, YerATrolls are characterized by a childish need for attention disguised as cynical nobility and pretensions of being "above it all."

[John Shaw]

Nah. I have been having issues lately though, I don't understand why it is okay to compromise moral prinicples depending on the situation. I ultimately believe doing violence is wrong, and because I believe in the self-ownership principle I cannot justify doing harm to another person under any circumstance.

It's not compromising principals to retaliate under the NAP.

NON. AGGRESSION. PRINCIPAL.

That means "DON'T. START. IT."

That does not mean "NEVER. USE. VIOLENCE."

As for compromise, your obvious hypocrisy, which I just quoted, is all I need to say.

[mrapplecastle]

coming from you, that sounds like a threat

1st warning.

about?

The YerATroll.  YerATrolls are those whining forumites who devote a tremendous amount of time and energy complaining about the tremendous amount of time an energy expended by Troll Bashers and Angry Forumites on the practice of troll-hunting.  A self-righteous and hypocritical breed, YerATrolls spend all their time pointing fingers at everyone but trolls, petulantly demanding that their opinions be granted the significance the YerATroll believes they deserve.  YerATrolls often start threads excoriating others for troll-hunting, all the while completely oblivious to the fact that they're engaging in trolling by picking fights with everyone else.  One of the most ill-tempered of troll species, YerATrolls are characterized by a childish need for attention disguised as cynical nobility and pretensions of being "above it all."

You sure had that definition at the ready huh