Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  The Rubber Room - Not Safe for Work
| | |-+  Why the opposition to pacifism?
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 15   Go Down

Author Topic: Why the opposition to pacifism?  (Read 26445 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

mrapplecastle

  • autonomist
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 346
    • View Profile
Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2010, 04:14:04 PM »

I think dueling chainsaws would be a better way to go.
Logged

Turd Ferguson

  • Opportunist Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4085
    • View Profile
    • https://twitter.com/#!/realmikequick
Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2010, 04:16:07 PM »

I think dueling chainsaws would be a better way to go.

Ok, I wont try then. I only go after unarmed pacifists  :P
Logged
Some peoples idea of hell is having to mind their own business.

libertylover

  • No Title Needed
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3791
    • View Profile
Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2010, 05:16:28 PM »

Just like the saying goes there are not Atheist in foxholes.  There are no true pacifist if they have the means to defend themselves in a life and death situation.
Logged

Rillion

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6804
    • View Profile
Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2010, 05:34:58 PM »

Just like the saying goes there are not Atheist in foxholes.  There are no true pacifist if they have the means to defend themselves in a life and death situation.

The former of which is demonstrably false, and the latter we have no way of knowing.  If it's false, the pacifists in question are dead. 
Logged

Pizzly

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 348
    • View Profile
Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2010, 05:47:59 PM »


The former of which is demonstrably false, and the latter we have no way of knowing.  If it's false, the pacifists in question are dead. 

Again, that's a false dichotomy. It is totally false to assume that someone must die in a physical dispute.
Logged
Peace isn't loving your neighbor, peace is simply not killing them.

Rillion

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6804
    • View Profile
Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2010, 06:02:57 PM »

Again, that's a false dichotomy. It is totally false to assume that someone must die in a physical dispute.

Well, she said "life and death situation."  I certainly agree that not every physical dispute is a life or death situation.   And anyway, true pacifism doesn't just mean not killing anyone, does it?  I thought it meant not taking any physical action against a person at all, even in self-defense. 
Logged

libertylover

  • No Title Needed
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3791
    • View Profile
Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2010, 07:05:57 PM »

In my attempt to be brief.  I failed to acknowledge the two forms of pacifist.  The NAP pacifist and what some call true pacifist. 

True pacifist in theory will not fight even if cornered in a life and death situation.   I am saying a person's natural survival instinct will kick in real quick.  If punching, kicking, pushing, even the use of a club will get them past the threat of death and even if that action kills the attacker.  They will do it to survive.  That or they have a martyr complex.  IE dying for their cause to gain fame.  And just to really mess with you, their cause might just be pacifism.
Logged

dalebert

  • Blasphemor
  • FTL Creative Team
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6622
    • View Profile
    • Flaming Freedom
Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2010, 08:16:53 PM »

pacifists embrace evil, why else would they not fight against it

You're saying if they don't embrace your particular choice of tactics (violence) then they are not against whatever it is that you are labeling "evil" for emotional impact.  I presume it's a violation of the NAP you're referring to as evil, but that wouldn't have the dramatic effect you were going for.  (Waiting for graphic descriptions of violent acts, probably rape, especially child-rape, and elaborate contrived scenarios where killing someone has been clearly established as the only possible preventative measure.)

That's an emotional; not a logical argument that fails to address the efficacy of that particular tactic.  There could be any number of reasons why an individual might choose to avoid violence in favor of other tactics for fighting "evil".  Maybe they prefer death to living with the after effects of doing serious harm to another human being.  Maybe they believe their life is part of something bigger and more important and that the sacrifice of their life is not as great as something else that will be sacrificed by certain serious choices.  Lots of people value certain things more than their own life and that's based on a personal value system.

I totally get people not agreeing with the choice.  I also get the anger when someone's telling you you're immoral for defending yourself.  What I absolutely don't get is the anger directed at pacifists for their personal choices when they're not trying to push it on anyone else and I've seen a lot of that.  Why can't you make your own choice for yourself and get on with your life?  That's what libertarianism is all about.  Why is it different regarding this choice?

I'm making this the leading topic for my next Sunday show, a week from tomorrow.

Riddler

  • Guest
Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2010, 08:57:22 PM »

two fucking words.

russell kanning. (nh underground)

child-support-dodging queer >admitted< (on his own forum) he'd let intruders rape his daughter & wife while he watched, AND WOULD NOT AGRESS AGAINST SAID ATTACKERS.

darwin's theory red-fucking-lining here.

you douchebags that claim true ''pacifistic tendencies'' should be sheep-herded into the soylent green machine. 3rd-world hunger problem solved.

you're welcome.

you wouldn't fight back......or try to stop the fine folks at SOY-G from forcibly stuffing your head into the grinder, would you?
....that would be ''aggressive''


go ahead n' die....as mr. scrooge so aptly put it, ''and decrease the surplus population.''
Logged

Pizzly

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 348
    • View Profile
Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2010, 09:07:14 PM »

two fucking words.

russell kanning. (nh underground)

child-support-dodging queer >admitted< (on his own forum) he'd let intruders rape his daughter & wife while he watched, AND WOULD NOT AGRESS AGAINST SAID ATTACKERS.

darwin's theory red-fucking-lining here.

you douchebags that claim true ''pacifistic tendencies'' should be sheep-herded into the soylent green machine. 3rd-world hunger problem solved.

you're welcome.

you wouldn't fight back......or try to stop the fine folks at SOY-G from forcibly stuffing your head into the grinder, would you?
....that would be ''aggressive''


go ahead n' die....as mr. scrooge so aptly put it, ''and decrease the surplus population.''

I find it troubling that becuse I am against causing violence, you feel I should die.
Logged
Peace isn't loving your neighbor, peace is simply not killing them.

mrapplecastle

  • autonomist
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 346
    • View Profile
Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2010, 09:14:28 PM »

Quote
There could be any number of reasons why an individual might choose to avoid violence in favor of other tactics for fighting "evil".
I certainly don't yearn for the chance to use violence on anyone even if it is justified. I'd much rather see a burglar or criminal escaping down the street scared for their life rather than lying in a pool of their own blood because they weren't.

Quote
Maybe they believe their life is part of something bigger and more important and that the sacrifice of their life is not as great as something else that will be sacrificed by certain serious choices.
If someone's life is part of some big and important idea why willingly sacrifice it to another obviously opposed to that big important idea. Could you provide a real life scenario that reflects this statement? If I dive into a volcano to save the world, it is suicide, but its not pacifism. Pacifism has nothing to do with murder necessarily, but with violence of any kind, and sometimes protecting yourself, loved ones, or possessions may require violence even though you have no intention of killing the perpetrator.

Quote
What I absolutely don't get is the anger directed at pacifists for their personal choices when they're not trying to push it on anyone else and I've seen a lot of that.  Why can't you make your own choice for yourself and get on with your life?
I wouldn't say anyone here is angry at pacifists, and I certainly don't care if that is someones choice, its just makes me sad to think of the possible results of it.

There was a guy that called into the radio show one time and said that even if his wife was being rapped in front of him, he wouldn't use violence to try and save her, I believe it was russell kanning...what douche bag
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 09:17:04 PM by mrapplecastle »
Logged

mrapplecastle

  • autonomist
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 346
    • View Profile
Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2010, 09:15:30 PM »

two fucking words.

russell kanning. (nh underground)


I knew it
Logged

Turd Ferguson

  • Opportunist Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4085
    • View Profile
    • https://twitter.com/#!/realmikequick
Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2010, 09:37:22 PM »

Ok, im gonna go out on a limb here and say that Russell Kanning is utterly full of shit if he really expects anyone to believe he would sit idly by while his wife was getting ass raped by some pigpen lookin ghetto hood rat right in the middle of their living room floor with the kid screaming for his mommy. Only reason someone says shit like that is because they are trying to show how ultra-passive they are by using the most extreme example even beyond their own level of passivism. Similar to vegetarians who claim they would starve to death on a life raft before they would eat a cheeseburger if it were the only food available.

I call  BULLSHIT
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 09:40:05 PM by quickmike »
Logged
Some peoples idea of hell is having to mind their own business.

mrapplecastle

  • autonomist
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 346
    • View Profile
Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2010, 09:39:51 PM »

Quote
I call  BULLSHIT
are you gonna find out?  :shock:
Logged

Turd Ferguson

  • Opportunist Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4085
    • View Profile
    • https://twitter.com/#!/realmikequick
Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2010, 09:42:31 PM »

Quote
I call  BULLSHIT
are you gonna find out?  :shock:

No, but I'd be pretty upset if I were his wife. Maybe she should hire an actor to come in (kinda like an episode of Punked) and act like hes raping her just to see what he would REALLY do. Im sure his bullshit would be exposed at that point. :P
Logged
Some peoples idea of hell is having to mind their own business.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 15   Go Up
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  The Rubber Room - Not Safe for Work
| | |-+  Why the opposition to pacifism?

// ]]>

Page created in 0.02 seconds with 31 queries.