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Author Topic: Why the opposition to pacifism?  (Read 34305 times)

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BonerJoe

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #165 on: September 13, 2010, 05:06:00 PM »

lawwwd
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John Shaw

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #166 on: September 13, 2010, 05:11:23 PM »

Nothing like getting shot in the face to give you some descriptives about violent events.

Yeah, about which I know pretty much nothing.  So feel free to ignore my previous post.  

ETA: Or advice would be good.  Your choice.

Sorry, I think I don't understand what you're saying here. Your previous post seems like a good one. Maybe I missed something?

<<<Might be confused about something. Sorry in advance.


« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 05:23:36 PM by John Shaw »
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Rillion

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #167 on: September 13, 2010, 05:17:34 PM »

Sorry, I think I don't understand what you're saying here. Your previous post seems like a good one. Maybe I missed something?

<<<Might be confused about something. Sorry in advance.

While I have opinions about how I'd prefer to act if someone broke into the house (or something similar), I have no idea how I'd react in reality since I haven't been in that situation before.  So for all I know, it might be impossible for me to actually shoot a gun at a human being, in which case those opinions don't amount to squat.   Any thoughts on that?
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BonerJoe

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #168 on: September 13, 2010, 05:21:16 PM »

My thing is that I can handle stress excellently at the time that it is happening. But then I do have a panic attack when the adrenaline finally wears off.

Evidence: Several 911 calls, Last minute hurricane evacuation, evasive maneuvers to avoid car accidents, getting guns pointed at me by cops.
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Riddler

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #169 on: September 13, 2010, 05:24:43 PM »

my whole take on deadly self defense is based on a ''home invasion'' scenario.

on the street, i think you most times can avoid a deadly confrontation.....stay out of shitty city neighborhoods, day or night.....don't be walking down a city street at night, even in a ''good'' section.

make sure your dealer didn't fuck his columbian suppliers, etc.

the one i more or less play out in my head, and have planned for, to a degree, is a nighttime home invasion.
it became a glaring reality when, last october, a woman & her 11 yr old girl were attacked in their own bed, (4 shitbags planned & broke into their house in the wee hours), hacked her to death w/ a machete & knife & tried to kill the girl, who miraculously survived.

two things worked against them. the sbags found an open basement window & an unlocked basement door into the house, and the lady/kid didn't wake up till it was too late.

this happened @ 5 mi. from my house.

after that, i bought a keyless pistol safe & security lights at every entrance. there would be considerable noise trying to get into my house w/ double locked doors/deadbolts, but not impossible.

if someone gets in, i wouldn't hesitate to shoot dead anybody found inside.
now, i've heard stories (and my brother actually did this) about drunks mistaking one house for another & innocently stumbling into someone elses house.

that could never happen at my house. 1200' driveway & NO NEIGHBORS. so, intruder = deadman, no regrets. a kitchen knife placed in hand for good measure.
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John Shaw

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #170 on: September 13, 2010, 05:57:47 PM »

Sorry, I think I don't understand what you're saying here. Your previous post seems like a good one. Maybe I missed something?

<<<Might be confused about something. Sorry in advance.

While I have opinions about how I'd prefer to act if someone broke into the house (or something similar), I have no idea how I'd react in reality since I haven't been in that situation before.  So for all I know, it might be impossible for me to actually shoot a gun at a human being, in which case those opinions don't amount to squat.   Any thoughts on that?

I just wrote a giant post about women and concealed carry, but it was a total derail from what we were talking about, heh. Maybe I'll post it elsewhere.

The trick with defensive shooting is to train your body to do what you want it to do automatically without your brain needing to be in gear properly.

Let's assume, for the sake of conversation, that you want to make certain that any dude who comes into your home and wishes to harm you in some way has no way of doing so, and you can ask me about variations if I miss something.

Here's a couple possible drills, think about them and consider changing them up depending on circumstances.

INTRUDER SCENARIO -

1. You hear a sound that wakes you up, no one else is home - (And you are better at reacting than acting.)
    a. You have a gun in a nightstand or headboard drawer or next to the bed.
    b. Grab gun and phone, dial 911 and set phone aside, don't worry about talking to them. They'll come.
    c. Wait right there in the bed, if someone enters the room without announcing, shoot until there is no threat.
*Special note* if you can't see police lights from your bedroom, don't do this because you might shoot a cop.

2. You hear a sound that wakes you up, no one else is home - (You are proactive)
    a. You have a gun and a light, either on the gun or with it, in a nightstand or headboard drawer or next to the bed.
    b. You stand up, listening carefully, and announce very loudly that you have a gun. Listen for a few at this point.
    c. Response or not, you use your flashlight to sweep the entry to the bedroom before exiting to search the house/'apartment, etc.

ANY SCENARIO WHERE YOU SEE AN INTRUDER -
1. If they are carrying anything in their hands, fire at center of mass until they stop doing things.
2. If you see nothing in their hands, yell at them to lie down on the floor, (Might take two or three times because they are going through the same adrenaline dump that you are.) if they do anything other than lie down on the floor, fire at center of mass until they stop doing things.
3. Call the police.

MUGGING SCENARIO -

Planning where you park or how observant you are while traveling on foot has more to do with your chances of being mugged than anything else, but assume it couldn't be helped.

Most importantly, they will probably have a weapon out, if they do, you may not want to draw.

Intuition is big, if you feel a weird vibe, put your hand on you gun, without drawing.

Fire when you think you're gonna die or get raped. Tell the police you thought you were gonna die. Never mention rape, especially if you've been sexually assaulted (In the past), because it will be used against you with the claim that you were trigger happy from your bad experience.




There's a lot more, but the most important thing of all is practice.

A gun with snap caps (Fake bullets that protect the gun from dry firing damage) in the mirror.

Draw, fire. Draw, fire. Do it with all the clothes you'd wear. Practice again and again.

For me, I wear an unbuttoned overshirt over a T. I flip the corner of my shirt over the grip of the gun, draw, and fire. Aiming- Learn to point shoot.

Do this as slowly as you need to do it every time, and build speed only until you fail, then slow down again. Just like playing a musical instrument. You're building muscle memory here. On a good day, I can draw a bead and pull the trigger twice in less than a second, and I am fat and slow. Just keep it going until you can do it a bunch of times in a row without thinking about it.

Accuracy is important, but not as important as the first shot. Getting off the first shot fucks people up, cuz they just got shot at. Learn double tapping. Practice a lot. Like, at least an hour twice a week of dry firing, and a couple times a month at the range, practicing a draw and fire. (If your range will let you.) also, if they'll let you, practice double taps.

Double taps are good because if you aim at center of mass and pull the trigger twice quickly, the second shot rises straight up. Depending on your distance, that second shot is either throat or head if your first shot was good.

I'm sure this was a ramblefest, but I hope that helps. You'll feel like a jackass looking in the mirror all hard core and drawing on yourself, but it works, heh.

The whole point of all of this is to train for muscle memory. If your reaction is automated, you won't have problems in an emergency. Your hands will do the work like magic. Just like playing an instrument again. You practice with an instrument long enough, and there are certain things you can do without even thinking about it. It just sort of comes out of you.

You won't have to worry about choking up or how you feel, because it'll be all over before you have a chance to feel anything at all. Then you cry and barf and feel more than you ever wanted to.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 06:23:25 PM by John Shaw »
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #171 on: September 13, 2010, 06:20:50 PM »

My biggest fuck up was thinking "hmm, wonder why the dogs barking at 3am" without getting my pistol ready first before looking outside. Pretty damn scary when youre looking through the blinds, getting ready to focus your eyes out towards the street, and the guys are only about 8 feet from your face on the other side of some glass.
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John Shaw

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #172 on: September 13, 2010, 06:27:39 PM »

My biggest fuck up was thinking "hmm, wonder why the dogs barking at 3am" without getting my pistol ready first before looking outside. Pretty damn scary when youre looking through the blinds, getting ready to focus your eyes out towards the street, and the guys are only about 8 feet from your face on the other side of some glass.

I end up doing a walkthrough of the house every couple months or so because a cat has knocked down something large. Our house has two entrances, almost across from each other, so it's easy for me to look over at the front door, then take a few steps and look over at the back door.

Was one of the many reasons we bought the house.
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John Shaw

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #173 on: September 13, 2010, 06:37:39 PM »

For Dale -

I'm certain that you could train yourself to perform any number of actions during a bad situation. I think that the self defense via force method is the safest one, personally, and as my belief system concludes that I only have one life and that I'd like to enjoy it as long as possible, that's the one I choose.

I think that physical self defense against a single or small number of non-financially backed attackers has the highest level of survivability, therefore I be shootin' them assholes if I can.

None of this even takes into account significant others that one would like to protect and so on.
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BonerJoe

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #174 on: September 13, 2010, 07:11:52 PM »

Some woman came knocking on our door a couple of months back. Like 11 PM at night, wouldn't stop and yelling "hey, you gotta move your car". Turns out it was just some drunk from the other street who mistook our house for someone elses. The shotgun, XD, and FAL got loaded before we opened the door, though.
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mrapplecastle

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #175 on: September 14, 2010, 12:08:14 AM »

This thread became a circle jerk about 4 pages ago.
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John Shaw

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #176 on: September 14, 2010, 12:27:13 AM »

This thread became a circle jerk about 4 pages ago.

:-(
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mrapplecastle

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #177 on: September 14, 2010, 12:32:18 AM »

All hope was lost with pizzly pages ago, thats when I stopped reading his posts, especially since how long they were, not telling what kind of mess was in them.

and hey some people might be into circle jerks  :D
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alaric89

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #178 on: September 14, 2010, 08:07:58 AM »

Certainly a educational thread for me. A lot of folks showed some true colors here. Some ganged up on a 19 year old kid and used kidgloves on a more respected poster with the same beliefs. Some have shown to be easily coerced or threatened and some have shown themselves to be trigger happy. This Troll witchhunt is eerily similar to the FED witchhunt we have going. Sad really, but better to know about people early I guess. I am not busting on anyone, I am just disappointed in myself, I misjudged a lot of people. Thought I would mention it.

Riddler

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #179 on: September 14, 2010, 08:59:19 AM »

we actually got dbert to admit he might indeed use some sort of force, in a purely defensive, life-or-death, self-preservation scenario....as any reasonable person would do.

your 19-yr-old example is either too naiive, or simple, or ......a mega-troll, to admit he would do the same.
he says he'd rather die violently at the hands of an attacker, than ''compromise'' his pacifistic beliefs, and lift a finger in a purely defensive manner
...and wonders why everyone here gets rankled.
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