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Author Topic: Why the opposition to pacifism?  (Read 26444 times)

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alaric89

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2010, 02:31:45 PM »

You probably need to be more specific.
Electric or gas chainsaw?
Wouldn't you be grossed out by the rotting muggers head on the pole outside?
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mrapplecastle

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2010, 02:35:40 PM »

pacifists embrace evil, why else would they not fight against it
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2010, 02:38:10 PM »

You probably need to be more specific.
Electric or gas chainsaw?
Wouldn't you be grossed out by the rotting muggers head on the pole outside?

 :lol:
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Pizzly

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2010, 02:47:16 PM »

pacifists embrace evil, why else would they not fight against it

I see this kind of comment come up quite often when looking at philosophical quotes and such, I don't get it at all. Pacifism is not passivism. Gandhi was a pacifist, but he obviously fought ferociously against evil.


Pacifism is dying even when you don't have to.

That's contra survival and not good.

Not initiating force <> Not concluding it when used against you. Even in a totally gratuitous and out of proportion way.

In a just society, if some mugger whips a gun out on me in my own store, and have every right to shoot him dead and stick his head on a pole out front until the condition of the head could endanger my customers with disease.

Not saying that I'd do something as barbaric as that, but I'd have every right to.

Pacifism is for masochists.


I absolutely disagree. It's strange, usually libertarian leaning indivuals see fallacies like "one of us must die." The fact I find it unethical to use force, even in response to a prior force, is not even the slightest admission that I would rather die.

Ok pizzly, lets role play. I have a chainsaw and I just busted down your door and am coming at you reving it up.....................you have a loaded shotgun 2 ft from your reach leaning against the fireplace.


Your move.

You make many assumptions, but if we assumeI have no way to run, no way to pay, and no way to beg, and that this shotgun has lethal rounds, I would chose not to shoot. I'm not saying my life has less value, I obviously feel my life is of greater value, but that is not a justification for killing a person.
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Peace isn't loving your neighbor, peace is simply not killing them.

mrapplecastle

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2010, 02:50:10 PM »

I obviously feel my life is of greater value, but that is not a justification for killing a person.
If you thought your life was of greater value, you wouldnt allow someone to murder you. In scenarios like that, the only way to stop the other person may be to kill them.
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alaric89

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2010, 02:57:45 PM »

No Mr. Prizzly if someone is coming at you with a chainsaw the debate be over. You blow the ol boys head off and mount the headless body on the pole outside making a sort of (now complete) sculpture.
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2010, 02:59:33 PM »

pacifists embrace evil, why else would they not fight against it

I see this kind of comment come up quite often when looking at philosophical quotes and such, I don't get it at all. Pacifism is not passivism. Gandhi was a pacifist, but he obviously fought ferociously against evil.


Pacifism is dying even when you don't have to.

That's contra survival and not good.

Not initiating force <> Not concluding it when used against you. Even in a totally gratuitous and out of proportion way.

In a just society, if some mugger whips a gun out on me in my own store, and have every right to shoot him dead and stick his head on a pole out front until the condition of the head could endanger my customers with disease.

Not saying that I'd do something as barbaric as that, but I'd have every right to.

Pacifism is for masochists.


I absolutely disagree. It's strange, usually libertarian leaning indivuals see fallacies like "one of us must die." The fact I find it unethical to use force, even in response to a prior force, is not even the slightest admission that I would rather die.

Ok pizzly, lets role play. I have a chainsaw and I just busted down your door and am coming at you reving it up.....................you have a loaded shotgun 2 ft from your reach leaning against the fireplace.


Your move.

You make many assumptions, but if we assumeI have no way to run, no way to pay, and no way to beg, and that this shotgun has lethal rounds, I would chose not to shoot. I'm not saying my life has less value, I obviously feel my life is of greater value, but that is not a justification for killing a person.

GRRRRRRROOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRAAAAARHHHHRRRRRRRRARRRRRRARRRRR

I chopped your head off with my chainsaw while you pondered the different possibilities in the scenario.

Game over.


I do however respect your decision to not do anything. It is your life after all. Do what you want with it.
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Pizzly

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2010, 03:04:40 PM »

I do wish to clarify if I need to. I respect the right to private property, I do recognize the right of an individual to use violence in their self defence. My belief in pacifism is trumped by my belief in private property rights.
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mrapplecastle

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2010, 03:06:09 PM »

Then you're not a pacifist and these are the reasons pacifism is dumb. Just because someone is not a pacifist does not mean they believe it is ok to murder or cause harm.
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alaric89

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2010, 03:07:04 PM »

I do wish to clarify if I need to. I respect the right to private property, I do recognize the right of an individual to use violence in their self defence. My belief in pacifism is trumped by my belief in private property rights.
Fine. Kill him because he runed your fucking door.
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2010, 03:15:25 PM »

I do wish to clarify if I need to. I respect the right to private property, I do recognize the right of an individual to use violence in their self defence. My belief in pacifism is trumped by my belief in private property rights.
Fine. Kill him because he runed your fucking door.

Its not his door anymore. I decapitated him with my chainsaw. Its my door now............................ Oh cool, a loaded shotgun!!! Guess I dont need this chainsaw anymore :P
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 10:35:03 PM by quickmike »
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mrapplecastle

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2010, 03:19:58 PM »

chainsaw with a shotgun attached to the bottom  :wink:
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2010, 03:23:47 PM »

chainsaw with a shotgun attached to the bottom  :wink:

Hey neighbor, got some duct tape I can borrow?
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mrapplecastle

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2010, 03:25:31 PM »

chainsaw with a shotgun attached to the bottom  :wink:

Hey neighbor, got some duct tape I can borrow?
sure, just dont cut my head off
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Why the opposition to pacifism?
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2010, 04:04:18 PM »

chainsaw with a shotgun attached to the bottom  :wink:

Hey neighbor, got some duct tape I can borrow?
sure, just dont cut my head off

Will you shoot me if I try?
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