Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Profile of lucidhawk
| |-+  Show Posts
| | |-+  Messages

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - lucidhawk

Pages: 1 2 3 [4]
46
General / Re: End the FSP
« on: April 01, 2011, 04:08:29 AM »
Sounds like nonsense to me maulotaur. Most people don't make big decisions such as moving to another state on a whim..

Has the amount of people moving for the FSP taken a radical dive? Because the last I heard new movers are still showing up every week.

47
General / Re: Jesus promoted Anarchism
« on: April 01, 2011, 03:50:00 AM »
Which would you say is more difficult and divisive , persuading a Christian to go Atheist (or anarchist "No gods. No masters") or persuading a conservative Christian to go to accept voluntaryism?

I don't think the Bible overtly promotes the idea of human governance at all. I would rather convince Christians first and foremost of the virtues of voluntaryism than the virtues or validity of atheism or agnosticism.

I generally don't have a problem with religious people as long as they don't try to force their way around.

48
General / Re: Jesus promoted Anarchism
« on: April 01, 2011, 03:30:10 AM »
......Christians aren't Christian because they "follow the Bible."  They "agree" to keep the ruler's commandments (and if they don't...)  They famously cannot.  They're Christian because they accept Christ.  It's sorta like getting a pardon from the Governor (once again, ruler.)
Even then, you can't do the 10 things, you must do the one thing...still a ruler.

Ok WTFK, I was wrong. Your statements here seem logically sound. Christ is their "ruler" (They even use the word king) because people believe their ruler exists and that they can go to hell..
People can choose to define anarchism close to the phrase "No gods, no masters" and that does seem more consistent..

I don't hold any special love for the word anarchism. I typically just define it as "Without government." (A physical human governance)

Replace my instances of the word anarchism with voluntaryism or something similar.

I tend to call what I've been describing as "Christian Anarchism" and not voluntaryism because it relies on the Bible and not simply the nonaggression principle to come to the belief that to have government is not preferable.

49
General / Re: Jesus promoted Anarchism
« on: April 01, 2011, 01:33:00 AM »
Didn't really understand that last bit.

I think there's a difference between following rules you agree to (natural law, essentially) and following rules that were given you by someone who will punish you if you don't.  Once again, it's the difference between being self-governing and being ruled.

 "Christians" agree to follow the Bible. A "Christian" who follows the Bible because they fear punishment isn't a Christian. Unless a "Christian" wants to come forward and disagree with me on that?

50
General / Re: Jesus promoted Anarchism
« on: April 01, 2011, 12:56:19 AM »
First of all....everything I have read from you in this thread comes across as pure semantic bullshit. You are basically saying nothing, cuz you are to much of a pussy to say what is really on yer mind.

You think you are really smart, and think you can mess with people with all this semantic nonsense. I have never read such crap in my life, Lucidhawk. Your crap is a pure abuse of the english language!

This is disgusting!

What do you want with us, "Lucidhawk"????

Instead of addressing even a word of the content of what I'm saying directly, you give more useless babble. Perhaps you should replace your icon with one of these:


51
General / Sucker Punch (movie)
« on: April 01, 2011, 12:45:40 AM »
I watched Sucker Punch.

It was a total nerd fantasy jumble. EXACTLY what it was obviously meant to be..
So I name it awesome.

9 out of 10, a high 9 would be an uncut version with a few of Baby Doll's missing dance scenes.

Yeah I said it. ;-)

52
General / Re: Jesus promoted Anarchism
« on: April 01, 2011, 12:21:25 AM »
This thread is total bullshit. It is even worse than feminist rhetoric. COMPLETE BULLSHIT!

To make it even more bullshit, the OP sticks this in the hi-jack free zone.

This must be one of Gene's Christian Anarchist buddies.

Sickening semantic bullshit!

Pure shit!

First of all I'm not Gene the Christian Anarchist's buddy, nor exactly a Christian. But I come from that background and have read the Bible and I am pretty familiar with it.

Instead of just calling it BS please explain how I am wrong. I only post in the hi-jack free zone because I like the idea of being able to remove continual overt trolling. 8)

53
General / Re: Jesus promoted Anarchism
« on: March 31, 2011, 07:13:19 PM »
If you must obey him, how is he not a ruler?  If you have a ruler, how are you anarchist?

True many people consider atheism a part of anarchism..  
But everyone has rules for themselves in some fashion and if you write down these rules you are following a book.

So is a book your ruler? And isn't following Christianity essentially just following a book and/or how you perceive your world and "morality" in "light" of the book?

Because if Yahweh actually talks to someone and forces them to do things (with threats like a ruler).
Then that person should take it very seriously and find out what's going on; like maybe go to get brain scans.  :P





54
General / Re: Jesus promoted Anarchism
« on: March 31, 2011, 03:20:46 AM »
If someone views their father and/or their "heavenly father" as someone to be obeyed this doesn't actually say anything about human rulers.
But I certainly understand where you're coming from on that. It's all too easy for the lines to be blurred.

But lets face it many Christians will not think to question government legitimacy when they are mixed up in government intertwined mainstream protestantism. Nor will they ever convert to a reason only based moral system.
They will continue to believe in the Bible no matter what..

So I think it's a good idea for freedom lovers to encourage Christians to have a revaluation of government role based on what the Bible says. Because IMO it's pretty clear that "God" does not want people to have rulers human rulers.

I like even the atheist Stefan Molyneux type no-nonsense secular ethics from the ground up approach; but there is just no way religious zealots are ever going to take Voluntaryism seriously unless they can see it as consistent with their religion.

55
General / Jesus promoted Anarchism
« on: March 30, 2011, 12:43:29 PM »
I typed this for Christians to think about or rebuttal. (*Not originally typed for FTL boards.)

As you should already know God promoted Anarchism in the Old Testament.

“In those days there was no king in Israel. As for everybody, what was right in his own eyes he was accustomed to do." (Judges 17:6, 21:25)

Later..

1 Samuel 8:5-18 :

5 They said to him, “You are old, and your sons do not follow your ways; now appoint a king to lead us, such as all the other nations have.”

6 But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the LORD. 7 And the LORD told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.”

 10 Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your male and female servants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the LORD will not answer you in that day.”

Jesus also Promoted Anarchism

What did Jesus emphasize?
"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged" "So in everything, do unto others what you would have them do unto you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." -Matthew 7:12.
 ..So here and many other spots in the New Testament we can conclude it's only OK to judge when we are willing to be judged by the same standard. And more than that we should act in a way that we believe others should act toward us.
 
Nobody desires new regulations and laws to prevent or enforce themselves to act a certain way, unless they are deranged. People want rulers and laws to enforce how others behave.
 
Would you have others to come into your house and enforce their morality on you and take you away with guns? And would you say it's OK for you to go into other people's houses with guns and take them to jail because they are not obeying your morality? How is it virtuous for you to do this or to ask others to do it for you?
 
Does this mean it's wrong for everyone to believe in laws? No, it just means only to endorse those that you would have enforced against you. Some Christians have found that if they think critically about this principle they would not endorse laws to be enforced on themselves. They would rather learn responsibility on their own through church and family and to be judged by their God.
 
What about persons in society who choose to do things like murder but would ask to be treated as if nothing happened? Well think about it.. This is not a problem with "Golden rule politics"/"Christian Anarchism". These people who murder have rendered their own endorsement of policy or ethics that others should follow logically, morally and socially invalid. Because "they ask to be left alone" but they themselves don't care to leave others alone: they murder.
 
I don't think it's unfair to say the average person who does not murder, would in their own theoretical minds have themselves punished for murdering an innocent person. The person's after the fact mad rush away in fear wouldn't count as part of that theoretical model because they have then through murder rendered their 'after the fact' now weak or nonexistent endorsement of punishment logically, morally and socially invalid.
 
Only the fringe of the fringe would enforce (do unto) laws and statist punishments unto themselves, so don't ask that they be enforced on others..
The only political philosophies which are in line with the golden rule are essentially those which promote the nonaggression principle (Libertarianism, Voluntaryism)

Endorsing total freedom does not mean that you believe its morally right for people to "sin" or even that it's OK to "sin". Its sad to me how many Christians believe in a collective morality. (e.g. : "It's wrong to legalize prostitution because prostitution is morally wrong.") Anarchism just means you don't hold up one man or group of others to enforce another group of others to act good. And you don't hand off dispute resolution, protection and crime prosecution to a group which claims to to be the singular ultimate authority over others (Within a given land mass called a "state").
 

56
General / Research done on bill/law length?
« on: March 16, 2011, 07:29:26 AM »
Legislation in the United States has gotten ever more lengthy over the years..

I would like to know the differences in length, in comparison with other countries.

I've come across information scattered here and there but I've not had much luck researching this.

Recommended books or articles etc would be appreciated.

57
General / Governments are like very large elaborate cults
« on: February 25, 2011, 08:58:42 AM »
I have often heard it briefly touched on that governments are like cults. I'd like to examine this in more detail...

I think it's fair to say that a cult is any "religion" that is particularly dangerous, exploitative and extremist.
I would also say the large majority of cults are authoritarian.

I've come up with some points; I'd like to see feedback on. (I know some points will be controversial but lets not get too hung up on each little thing (Like what I say about "Patriotism")).


Properties of the State/Properties of the Cult:


Constitution = The cult bible/scripture which may have some great and enticing principles to live by.. but after time is interpreted differently for the purposes of the ever more greedy and power hungry cult leaders.

Laws, US Code = Further scripture, sermons on paper and edicts.

State/Country =  The totality of "holy" "special" church grounds where believers gather.

States = Sects and or individual churches.

President = A high priest given extreme unhealthy reverence and power over others.

Government Officials/Bureaucrats = Clergy of the cult.

Police = Ranking cult members who enforce/abuse edicts.

Military = Specially assigned crusaders.

Citizens = The faithful believers initiated through special rites and initiations.

Public schooling = Cult supported indoctrination of the young.

Taxes = Tithe to the "church" backed by coercion which is supposed to go to good causes but often does not.

Welfare programs, SS, WIC, FEMA, Medicare = Ill mannered charity with a twist of propagandist outreach and control

War including "war on drugs", "war on terror" = Violent crusades.

Flags = Idolatry, religious symbolism.

Pledge of Allegiance = Prayer, hymns, deliberate indoctrination.

Patriotism = A feeling/belief in a virtually inexplicable otherworldly higher order of truth and community fully or partially monopolized by your group.


Properties only of State:


Voting - Most nations these days have voting. Most cults do not.

Gaining Citizenship - It's certain that most if not all countries have ritual initiations in order to join. Is it fair to say most cults have ritual initiations that are required in order to join? Probably not..

Monopolization - Perhaps the main thing that tends to separate the way governments operate is their deliberate and total monopolization of various services and land mass. Although on a small scale sometimes there are even physical barriers deliberately erected by the cult, some cults deliberately isolate themselves in remote areas and make their members dependent on each other for survival.

I'm sure I could come up with more but I'll stop here..

Pages: 1 2 3 [4]

Page created in 0.016 seconds with 30 queries.