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541

General / Re: Don't initiate violence?

« on: September 06, 2010, 01:12:29 PM »

Thus, I used Galt as my example...

542

General / Re: Don't initiate violence?

« on: September 06, 2010, 12:29:11 PM »

Tell me, did John Galt initiate violence against the people in Atlas Shrugged? No, he just stopped participating.

In this regard, the difference between John Galt and Howard Roark is interesting.  Then again, they're just works of fiction, not historical examples.

Speaking of which, and interesting thing about Ireland is they've been through that phase, which may make them profoundly sensitive to it.

Howard Roark was merely enforcing a contract. He told Peter Keating that his property could only be used if no additional changes were made. Keating broke the contract, and Roark took his property back. Galt never had any such grounds, and thus did not initiate force inappropriately. Even being works of fiction, they are meant as philosophical examples, which is the context I was using them in.

Continuously deciding on a new home for freedom simply means that eventually you will be penned in with no home to make a stand in. Running from Colorado to NH to Ireland to New Zealand is severely deconcentrating any efforts at liberty.

That's not all he was doing.  He also resorted to violence, whether moral or immoral, which seems to be the distinction in this thread.  Roark did not take his property back.  He destroyed the property, not the contract which was violated.  (Added this after posting ->) By the way, the idea that his ideas were property is controversial.  If you want to say the contract was his joint property with Keating, that's a different thing, and that's where the remedy should have been applied.

I never advocated running from Colorado to NH to Ireland to New Zealand, and it's not obvious that would be deconcentrating to liberty anyway.  It's hard enough to decide to move to NH, which has been argued as a concentration of liberty.  The point was, once again, this thread.  If one considered relocating, one might consider relocating to a culture where they understand the effects of violence--particularly in revolt.  I would suspect most people there would indicate that the effects of violence are "not good."

You're idea of property rights is obviously different than Rand's, but that's another discussion entirely. In the book, the design was his property, as stated in the contract, and it could only be used if no changes were made. As far as violence, he never harmed any individuals, though your point is still a good one. He destroyed millions of dollars worth of materials that were not his, though they were being used on his design in a manner unauthorized by him.

543

General / Re: Don't initiate violence?

« on: September 06, 2010, 11:53:09 AM »

Tell me, did John Galt initiate violence against the people in Atlas Shrugged? No, he just stopped participating.

In this regard, the difference between John Galt and Howard Roark is interesting.  Then again, they're just works of fiction, not historical examples.

Speaking of which, and interesting thing about Ireland is they've been through that phase, which may make them profoundly sensitive to it.

Howard Roark was merely enforcing a contract. He told Peter Keating that his property could only be used if no additional changes were made. Keating broke the contract, and Roark took his property back. Galt never had any such grounds, and thus did not initiate force inappropriately. Even being works of fiction, they are meant as philosophical examples, which is the context I was using them in.

Continuously deciding on a new home for freedom simply means that eventually you will be penned in with no home to make a stand in. Running from Colorado to NH to Ireland to New Zealand is severely deconcentrating any efforts at liberty.

544

General / Re: Should minarchists and anarchists unite?

« on: September 06, 2010, 11:48:44 AM »

Your statements are simply expressions of vitriol and childishness. Perhaps you should have gone back and read the thread again before lashing out about collectivists and statists. The obvious connotation was working together against a current situations and saving our differences for a more appropriate context.

545

General / Re: Introducing my tea party group to liberty. Tips or predictions?

« on: September 06, 2010, 11:43:19 AM »

Just remember, many of the group will never sway in their conservative views...nothing you can do about it, just hold strong to your principles.

546

General / Re: Should minarchists and anarchists unite?

« on: September 06, 2010, 11:07:54 AM »

The FAIL here is you, WTF Ken. The fact that def. 7 is included means that particular connotation is a widely used in conversation and discussion. It is clear that the OP was suggesting a form of alliance or working together towards the same end.

547

General / Re: Don't initiate violence?

« on: September 06, 2010, 11:05:29 AM »

War and a government crackdown would cause much pain and misery for everyone for many years. Guerrilla operations are a bad idea. Overt violence of any kind at this stage is a bad idea. What you can do is remove yourself from that society, and join the FSP. At least there, with time, the concentration of liberty loving people is far more powerful than spread throughout the world. Tell me, did John Galt initiate violence against the people in Atlas Shrugged? No, he just stopped participating.

548

General / Re: Should minarchists and anarchists unite?

« on: September 06, 2010, 10:59:03 AM »

At least you guys use the correct meanings for terms. I can't tell you how many times Ian and Mark drive me up the wall by getting meanings wrong.

549

General / Re: ubuntu virgin needs help

« on: September 06, 2010, 10:57:29 AM »

While Google turned up worthless, even the Ubuntu forums, (...and what the fuck, there's an owl in my attic!), I managed to find a great tutorial on youtube that walked me through the terminal process for installing java from a repository. It was easy, really, but I never would've figured it out on my own..

550

General / Re: Drama in the Free State

« on: September 06, 2010, 02:08:09 AM »

The question is whether the answer is 10mm, playing dead, or convincing the bear that you're more formidable than he is. 

Other options -

1. Get away from the bear.

2. Evade the bear.

3. Avoid the bear.

4. Obfuscate oneself against the bear.


Aight, that's all the same thing, but it BEARS repeating.

THANKSTRYTHEFISHI'MHEREALLWEEK!

Or become a bear (not recommended). I suggest evasive action. Drive around the roadblock, place signs warning citizens of armed roadblock and offer a detour.

Also, easy on the violence WTFK.

Or we could just hold their hands and put daisies in their hair?

551

General / Youtube vs. Google

« on: September 06, 2010, 01:30:58 AM »

I find it very strange that youtube has been vastly more informative in many of my recent HOWTO searches than Google. Often, when I google a term like "download java on ubuntu", I get vague jargon from some backwoods linux forum... If I type the same thing into youtube, I get hundreds of detailed walkthroughs...What gives?

552

General / Re: Should minarchists and anarchists unite?

« on: September 06, 2010, 12:37:03 AM »

Really?  I was going for a matter-of-fact and not particularly antagonistic vibe.

"Statist", even prefixed with "mini", is not likely to be taken well by self-described advocates of liberty.

There are... challenges, that are very recent.  We are working on them.

I hope they get resolved quickly and all goes smoothly from now on.

Such a general, simplistic statement also undermines any intellectual legitimacy you might show in the rest of the thread.

553

General / Re: Introducing my tea party group to liberty. Tips or predictions?

« on: September 06, 2010, 12:34:29 AM »

I wouldn't direct them to the BBS immediately but would recommend the show.

I may be making assumptions, but I would bet that many of these people are middle age and above. Ian definitely does his part to terrorize those that are long steeped in conservatism. Hell, he annoys me most of the time, and I agree with a healthy percentage of his principles...

If I were the OP, I'd start at the beginning: philosophy. Many modern political types are pragmatists. Rand did well in pointing out that a core philosophy is the most important part of our intellect. Build that basis of liberty by following the historical example from liberty's roots in feudal Europe, through the mercantalist imperial periods, and transitioning into the Enlightenment. The gradual growth of liberty away from many long-surviving fallacies should tie in nicely as a basis against modern rhetoric. Just remember, baby steps.

554

General / Re: Things I like about this forum

« on: September 05, 2010, 11:51:51 PM »

He links to a thread about avoiding personal contact because its a waste of timeand money, and then goes on about all the time he spends on this forum...Am I the only one that sees the irony here?

555

The Rubber Room - Not Safe for Work / Re: Who Is Ron Paul?

« on: September 05, 2010, 11:30:03 PM »

Ron Paul's accomplishments:
-Brought a spotlight to the Fed's illegal activities and started the "End the Fed" movement and Audit the Fed bill.
-Only person standing even with Obama in (very) preemptive polls for 2012.
-Record for most contributions raised in a single day
-Inspiration for millions of Americans to take the side of liberty in a serious grassroots way.
-Humiliated Huckabee, McCain, and Romney on live television
-Started a thought process in millions of Americans who haven't yet given up their statist ways...
-Recieved thousands (maybe millions) of votes in the general election despite not running.

Who is Ron Paul?