RP+DK08

[Organjic]

Little something I made up yesterday for fun.  Enjoy.  If anyone wants the vector files Ill upload on request.

[bakerbaker]

nice illustration

[AntonLee]

I agree I love the illustration. . .I just don't like the socialist.

[Phantgeist]

I agree I love the illustration. . .I just don't like the socialist.

Ditto.

The immigration issue becomes very important when you come out of your utopia and realize that other countries do believe in their borders.  While America keeps importing cheap labor, countries like Japan and Switzerland are inventing robots to do the same jobs with fewer people!  You know what it takes to get a Japanese citizenship?

[AntonLee]

I agree I love the illustration. . .I just don't like the socialist.

Hmmm... I don't like the immigration fascist either.

I personally disagree with Dr. Paul's stance on immigration.  As do you.  I don't agree with him totally on everything.  Most things I do however agree with, and they're items that are not even mentioned by other candidates.  Cutting spending is talked about. . . Ron has given me many examples of how he would cut spending.  Another issue is the drug war, and though some other democrat candidates mention MAYBE a SOMEWHAT FAIR solution to those who MIGHT need medical marijuana (or. . . medical marijuana is ok, someday maybe). . . Ron Paul is the only one talking about ending a drug war, both saving a lot of money AND simultaneously keeping otherwise lawful people out of jail.

[AntonLee]

I think if you stop the DEA raids in states like California, it'll save a lot of people who use it, and be a huge step forward in the early beginnings of Pot Shops/Dispensaries

I think he'll end the drug war, he has said that he's for that, and the states can choose. . . end the war on drugs, end the crime.

I really do think he's pandering with the immigration issues.  I agree with you on immigration.   I can't think of anyone better to be behind, I agree with him on more issues than I ever have with any other candidate.  I think he'd be an excellent president.  If he ever did become president, I would be against his policy regarding illegals myself.

[alkanen]

The only thing I could see him doing is telling the states to decide what to do with the drug war

Which would be a huge fall in the right direction.

As for cutting spending, well... Bush promised to cut spending. 

Good thing Paul has a nine-term record of voting for cut spending then, eh?

[Phantgeist]

Hey, let's round up them eeelegals and deport them. Yes, m'aaam!

I'm Ron Paul!!! 

Source?

The way I understand it, the restriction of immigration is a temporary issue, it won't be needed after a few decades.  Ron Paul doesn't believe in "rounding up" anybody, just in removing the incentives for more people to come here illegally, getting rid of welfare, reforming the immigration bureaucracy, etc.

The only thing that has kept America from becoming as socialist as France is the established Republican-voting middle class.  The country has been pretty close to 50:50 in the past few elections.  Unskilled "cheap labor" immigrants tend to vote for their own benefits, so how many of them enter the country can tip the balance.

Lack of cheap labor is a major reason England had the Industrial Revolution, while slave-abundant ancient Rome, Persia, India, and China did not.  You still see the best innovations coming from high-productivity-per-capita countries, while countries with a poor worker class fall to stagnation and socialism. 

Nations like Switzerland and Japan control their borders rationally - they let in the people that help the economy as a whole.  America should do the same thing, especially since literally billions of people would agree to come here if they could.  Why should some guy who can run across the border from Mexico have an unearned advantage over a double-Ph.D. from Eurasia?

Robots are FAR more expensive to build and maintain anyways...

They used to say the same thing about them "horseless carriage" motor cars...  Why bother inventing those, let's just import a bunch of Chinamen to pull our rickshaws!

Which reminds me - I know that in a perfect world with no nation-states Russia and China would be as gentle as newborn kittens, people would move across borders freely, and your car would fly, but we're not in a perfect world yet, so please don't drive off a cliff, gravity will hurt you.

[MobileDigit]

The immigration issue becomes very important when you come out of your utopia and realize that other countries do believe in their borders.  While America keeps importing cheap labor, countries like Japan and Switzerland are inventing robots to do the same jobs with fewer people!  You know what it takes to get a Japanese citizenship?

Labor entry into an economy still always helps the economy. If you've got more people doing more things, everyone benefits. Whether that is offset by the increase in government because of the voting patterns of immigrants, I don't know.

The only thing that has kept America from becoming as socialist as France is the established Republican-voting middle class.  The country has been pretty close to 50:50 in the past few elections. 

Maybe, but proclaiming that the reason is because of immigration and not, say, government education is strange.

Unskilled "cheap labor" immigrants tend to vote for their own benefits, so how many of them enter the country can tip the balance.

Source?

You still see the best innovations coming from high-productivity-per-capita countries, while countries with a poor worker class fall to stagnation and socialism. 

But what's the cause and what's the effect?

Nations like Switzerland and Japan control their borders rationally - they let in the people that help the economy as a whole.  America should do the same thing, especially since literally billions of people would agree to come here if they could.  Why should some guy who can run across the border from Mexico have an unearned advantage over a double-Ph.D. from Eurasia?

That's absolute nonsense. Every person added to the economy helps it grow.

[MobileDigit]

What if the states choose to continue the drug war? Personally, I think they'll choose to continue it...

I think it is very unlikely that they all would.

[prashantpawar]

How DARE you to put Ron Paul next to that Socialist Nazi??

Guys seriously get something clearly, Libertarianism is not all about legalizing Weed, if that's what you think then maybe this is not the right place for you. Libertarianism is about Liberty and Liberty does not mean "don't-care-how-totalitarian-you-are-just-legalize-weed".

[AntonLee]

How DARE you to put Ron Paul next to that Socialist Nazi??

Guys seriously get something clearly, Libertarianism is not all about legalizing Weed, if that's what you think then maybe this is not the right place for you. Libertarianism is about Liberty and Liberty does not mean "don't-care-how-totalitarian-you-are-just-legalize-weed".

the beauty of libertarianism is that the individual can make his own choice as to what issues they push for.  For some libertarians, hate to tell ya, it is all about legalizing weed.  You can look down on them if you so choose. . . but that's their issue. . .they'd rather fight for that one issue so that. . . I don't know. . . they don't fucking go to jail.

or have their properties taken away, or live life without something that can ease their pain.  Yeah, we're just all stoners.  If someone truly doesn't care about how much control government has over them, yet wants pot legalized for WHATEVER reason. . . and will vote for the most liberty oriented candidate based on that one little issue.  . . . great!

I don't care what your issue is, everyone seems to have that one issue that really digs them hardcore.  Police State/Taxes/Big Government/Fiat Currency/Re-Legalization

just speaking to people, who are as you say, "don't care how totalitarian you are just legalize weed". . . who have come over to the side of liberty. . . people who have never voted, or could care less about politics and life outside of their basement apartments and bakey rides. . . are learning more about the liberty movement.

I'm sure you're very sick and tired of the 'legalize weed' issue.  I'm just as tired hearing that it's not a good enough issue for someone to take a pro-liberty stance on.

[bakerbaker]

What if the states choose to continue the drug war? Personally, I think they'll choose to continue it...

I think it is very unlikely that they all would.

If some states choose to allow it, they'd start by regulating it. (medical marijuana)
I think Joe Schmoe drug dealer would still be arrested in the end.

they'll be the unlicensed ones.  yeah, you'll have to pay and apply for permits to sell it if/when it is relegalized.