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Author Topic: FSP June 19th, 2004 bus trip to Grafton, NH / FSP theme song  (Read 12299 times)

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FTL_Ian

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Re: FSP June 19th, 2004 bus trip to Grafton, NH / FSP theme song
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2005, 02:49:31 PM »

Quote
The least the FSP can do is be honest, and tell the members when they are changing the rules.....but that would be too much to ask, I guess

Maybe they didn't realize it was such a big deal to some people.  I'm not making excuses for them, just saying it's meaningless to me, but an issue to you.

Anyway, with or without the deadline, the FSP is a valid concept deserving of support by liberty lovers, and that's why I support it.  I don't care about the details, I just want freedom oriented people to move to NH.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: FSP June 19th, 2004 bus trip to Grafton, NH / FSP theme song
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2005, 02:50:35 PM »

Quote
I just don't understand why the 9/06 "deadline" is such a big goddamn deal to you.

Because if they can't keep their promises why should anyone keep theirs, in reguards to fulfilling their participant duities?

It's up to the individuals to keep their promises.  Just because a few leaders dropped the ball doesn't mean everyone is the same way.  Even if we only end up with 5000 movers, that will still make a huge difference.
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bonerjoe

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Re: FSP June 19th, 2004 bus trip to Grafton, NH / FSP theme song
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2005, 02:50:43 PM »

Quote
Dude, as you can see from my posts on the FSP forum, I'm not totally enthralled with the FSP leadership.

I can see that almost all of your posts are about trying to promote your radio show.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: FSP June 19th, 2004 bus trip to Grafton, NH / FSP theme song
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2005, 02:53:11 PM »

Obviously.  Brilliant deduction, Watson.   :lol:
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bonerjoe

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Re: FSP June 19th, 2004 bus trip to Grafton, NH / FSP theme song
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2005, 02:53:44 PM »

Quote
Just because a few leaders dropped the ball doesn't mean everyone is the same way

A few? Ha! Even Sorens was caught doing naughty things. If you don't have leadership, you don't have an organization. That's why the FSP has no hope.

5,000 eventuall movers, 98% of them will just twiddle their thumbs, aren't going to even have a dent in the tens of thousands of statist immigrants. It's too bad the leadership killed the project when they decided to seek non-profit status.
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bonerjoe

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Re: FSP June 19th, 2004 bus trip to Grafton, NH / FSP theme song
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2005, 02:55:32 PM »

Understand, I WOULD REALLY REALLY REALLY (fucking REALLY) like to see the FSP succeed. But to do that we need to dump the lackeys in the leadership and get people who aren't just going to sit there and try and be "politically correct" libertarians.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2005, 02:57:11 PM by bonerjoe »
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FTL_Ian

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Re: FSP June 19th, 2004 bus trip to Grafton, NH / FSP theme song
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2005, 03:07:36 PM »

5,000 eventuall movers, 98% of them will just twiddle their thumbs, aren't going to even have a dent in the tens of thousands of statist immigrants. It's too bad the leadership killed the project when they decided to seek non-profit status.

That's really pessimistic.  It would be pathetic if 5,000 people uprooted themselves and moved, and only 100 did something when they arrived.  I personally am optimistic.  I expect we will do better than the 80-20 rule because of the filtering effect of the move.

Quote
Understand, I WOULD REALLY REALLY REALLY (fucking REALLY) like to see the FSP succeed. But to do that we need to dump the lackeys in the leadership and get people who aren't just going to sit there and try and be "politically correct" libertarians.

It's nice to know where you stand.  I agree with your comment about stopping the political correctness.  Unfortunately the leadership has abolished elections.  Not a move that I'm fond of, but what can I do?  All I can do is drive more people to the FSP via my show, and try to get this move triggered.  That's why I'm always promoting my show among the FSP.  The leadership has never called in, but the activists in NH have.
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fisher

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Re: FSP June 19th, 2004 bus trip to Grafton, NH / FSP theme song
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2005, 03:09:21 PM »

Quote
Just because a few leaders dropped the ball doesn't mean everyone is the same way

A few? Ha! Even Sorens was caught doing naughty things.

you mean stuff like this:

Quote
==================================
Quote from: JasonPSorens on Today at 09:14:20am
It certainly could be intentional sabotage.  Jay D*********, Zack/Larry P*******' best bud, has been charged with defrauding people on ebay on two separate occasions, getting a warning the first time and pleading guilty the second time.  I posted a link to the story on the WYFWP Yahoo group, where this discussion was originally going on.  Before this op-ed came out, I confronted Jay and Zack and have told them that I personally will work to shun, ostracize, and boycott them at every opportunity if they ever dare to move to NH.  The leadership has presented a coordinated response, showing that these two or three misfits are overwhelmingly rejected by other Free Staters and in no way represent us.  I don't even think they will be moving to NH.  Certainly not with our blessing.
===================
 

You fail to mention, however, that you were at first trying to conceal your identity by posting to the WYFWP Yahoo! Group by using the profile "zyzyvyx" at "iron_maiden@ziplip.com". A name that you had posted under in the middle of 2003 in the WYFWP in order to try and infiltrate and disorganize the Wyoming organization. I will quote your messages in entirety. They can still be viewed:

==================================
"From:  "iron_maiden@z..." <iron_maiden@z...>
Date:  Thu Jun 26, 2003  5:25 pm
Subject:  Re: [wyfsp] The good, the bad and the ugly


> -----Original Message-----

> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:32:14 -0600
> From: Charles Curley <charlescurley@c...>
> To: wyfsp@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [wyfsp] The good, the bad and the ugly

> I've been in Wyoming for ten years and still don't know who Alex Jones
> is.


A "patriot" looney. The one thing that worries about Wyoming - and Idaho too -
is the prevalence of "sovereign citizen" nutjobs, tax evaders, anti-Semites, and
other wack jobs. A million to one this Bruce Peret fellow reads "American Free
Press," an anti-Semitic periodical popular in the "patriot" movement. An
isolationist mentality prevails in certain parts of the West. The East and
Midwest seem more rational, although you get loons everywhere."
==================================

==================================
""From:  "iron_maiden@z..." <iron_maiden@z...>
Date:  Tue Jul 1, 2003  5:48 pm
Subject:  exaggerating

I was exaggerating a little bit when I said there were a lot of "irrational"
people out West. I'm a strong supporter of the West because of its identity (I
wrote a message about this on the other forum). But people like Lanny and Bruce
are creepy."
==================================


Now isn't it disheartening to find out that the leader of your organization Mr. Jason Sorens, who accuses other of doing so, has been caught trying to undermine someone else's effort?. How lame. I bet he’s real pissed that he forgot to post by e-mail instead of the website, exposing his true identity.

If anyone doubts this, look at the full headers of messages posted yesterday on the Yahoo! group by "zyzyvyx" and one followed by "Jason P. Sorens". Notice how the IP addresses match.



==================================
"From iron_maiden@z... Thu Jun 17 07:18:23 2004
Return-Path: <iron_maiden@z...>
X-Sender: iron_maiden@z...
X-Apparently-To: wyfwp@yahoogroups.com
Received: (qmail 53504 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2004 14:18:23 -0000
Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167)
by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2004 14:18:23 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.68)
by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2004 14:18:22 -0000
Received: from [66.218.67.137] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2004 14:17:02 -0000
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:17:00 -0000
To: wyfwp@yahoogroups.com
Message-ID: <cas94s+dcdg@eGroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <cas8ui+lim1@eGroups.com>
User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Length: 180
X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster
X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.68
From: "zyzyvyx" <iron_maiden@z...>
X-Originating-IP: 130.132.85.235
Subject: Re: (~) Libertarians target Grafton
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150422068
X-Yahoo-Profile: zyzyvyx

Just another thought -- I wonder whether because of their criminal
pasts, Larry, Jay, and Chuck all cut deals with the USA government to
bring down the FSP and FWP? What say ye?"




"From jason.sorens@y... Thu Jun 17 09:07:37 2004
Return-Path: <jason.sorens@y...>
X-Sender: jason.sorens@y...
X-Apparently-To: wyfwp@yahoogroups.com
Received: (qmail 85554 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2004 16:07:37 -0000
Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216)
by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2004 16:07:37 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76)
by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2004 16:07:37 -0000
Received: from [66.218.67.169] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2004 16:07:31 -0000
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:07:30 -0000
To: wyfwp@yahoogroups.com
Message-ID: <casfk2+2dhe@eGroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <casf7c+mceg@eGroups.com>
User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Length: 1056
X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster
X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.76
From: "Jason P Sorens" <jason.sorens@y...>
X-Originating-IP: 130.132.85.235
Subject: Re: Jason Sorens LIBELS Zack Bass - was: (~) Libertarians target Grafton
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=6444853
X-Yahoo-Profile: jason_sorens

--- In wyfwp@yahoogroups.com, "Zack Bass" <Ross@P...> wrote:
>
> --- In wyfwp@yahoogroups.com, "Jason P Sorens" <jason.sorens@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > ... it's factually correct. Zack's been convicted of assaulting
> > a police officer..... No one disputes that.
> >
>
> I dispute that, you slimy motherfucker. I state categorically, and
> so NOTIFY you, that I have never in my life been convicted of
> assaulting a police officer. What's more, I have never assaulted a
> police officer at all, ever in my life. Who feeds you this shit?
>
> Time for a Public Retraction.

"MaryQueenofScots" posted your criminal record on the FSP web forum,
remember? I think it was wrong of her to do that, but when she did
it, you didn't dispute the facts therein.

I previously thought you were well-intentioned but seriously
misguided, but the more I find out about the people you hang out
with, the more it seems that you're involved in a criminal cabal.
And if you think I'm hard on you, just imagine what the people in NH
think of you right now."
==================================


Why is your founder trying trying to hide his identity? Why did he try to subvert another organizations efforts? What are his motives?

Jason, would you care to explain?
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fisher

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Re: FSP June 19th, 2004 bus trip to Grafton, NH / FSP theme song
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2005, 03:17:41 PM »

This is the email that was sent to Zack Bass three days before the June 19th meeting. At the June 19th Grafton meeting, Amanda Phillips said that the FSP leadership had told Zack not to come to NH, and he was no longer part of the project. According to Zack, this email was the only communication he got telling him he should not come to NH, and he was never informed by the FSP that he was kicked out.

Quote
Subject: DO NOT COME TO NH - EVER
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:45:13 -0400

==========================================

Mr. Xxxxx Xxxxxxxxx,

THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. WITH "FRIENDS" LIKE YOU, WE DON'T NEED ANY ENEMIES.

YOU HAVE POISONED THE WELL IN GRAFTON. THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR "HELP."

THE PEOPLE OF GRAFTON ARE ARMED, DANGEROUS, AND EXTREMELY PISSED AT YOU. EXCEPT FOR THIS MESSAGE, WE WILL CERTAINLY NOT PROTECT YOU.

IN FACT, WE WILL HELP THEM HANG YOU OUT TO DRY IN ANY LEGAL WAY POSSIBLE.

YOU ARE HEREBY WARNED. DO NOT COME TO NEW HAMPSHIRE EVER AGAIN.

THERE IS NO WARM, FUZZY FREEDOM COMMUNITY HERE FOR YOU. FOR YOU THERE IS ONLY AN EXTREMELY HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT OF YOUR OWN MAKING. STAY IN FLORIDA.

For Responsible Liberty,

================================================
John Barnes, J. D.
Vice Chair, 2d District, L P N H
Chair, Welcome to the Granite State Committee
.
Voice or Fax:
Inside USA: 1-888-221-8628 (Toll-free)
Outside USA: 1-312-893-0715 (Not toll-free)
.
E-mail: jbarnes@lpnh.org
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SethCohn

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Leadership never calls Ian?
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2005, 03:46:02 PM »

The leadership has never called in, but the activists in NH have.

Hey, what am I, chopped liver?  I have a real title and everything.  I don't use it when I call in, because I'm not representing the Free State Project, so it's not appropriate.
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bonerjoe

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Re: FSP June 19th, 2004 bus trip to Grafton, NH / FSP theme song
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2005, 03:59:33 PM »

Who does represent the FSP then?
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Leadership never calls Ian?
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2005, 04:12:07 PM »

The leadership has never called in, but the activists in NH have.

Hey, what am I, chopped liver?  I have a real title and everything.  I don't use it when I call in, because I'm not representing the Free State Project, so it's not appropriate.

I take it back!  I take it back!  You're a good caller.
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bonerjoe

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Re: FSP June 19th, 2004 bus trip to Grafton, NH / FSP theme song
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2005, 04:32:30 PM »

Can we have someone new? The last thing we need is a spinmeister.
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bonerjoe

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Re: FSP June 19th, 2004 bus trip to Grafton, NH / FSP theme song
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2005, 04:54:27 PM »

Aren't you president of the NH underground? Why don't you take up the slack?
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EclecticBuddha

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Re: FSP June 19th, 2004 bus trip to Grafton, NH / FSP theme song
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2005, 06:14:47 PM »

Bwa ha ha ha ha What a great photoshop three pages ago... hoo boy... and i never really welcomed "awaken part deux".
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