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Author Topic: Gun Control and Ever-Increasing Government Prohibitions Over the Decades  (Read 8553 times)

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MOE from between St. Joe's River and the railroad tracks

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Re: Gun Control and Ever-Increasing Government Prohibitions Over the Decades
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2011, 05:57:17 PM »

Quote
Or... Option 3... Change the system ourselves. Heck, do I have to do it alone? Where's the backbone from the libertarian movement?

The problem is that there are very few people who love liberty in the U.S. Some of those people are moving to New Hampshire for the free state project to make some incremental changes to government and to live amongst like-minded people.

Outside of the FSP, I really don't know how successful any libertarianish or freedom-oriented movement is going to be. Hopefully I will be proven wrong!!!  :lol:

John Shaw

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Re: Gun Control and Ever-Increasing Government Prohibitions Over the Decades
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2011, 06:33:46 PM »

So what you're saying is that you want us to join up with the KKK so we can get them to lynch fewer black people, is that right?

I don't beg for my freedom with a hole punched piece of paper every few years.

No thanks.

You go vote. I'll be over here, actually being free.

PROTIP - Calling people names or implying cowardice for disagreeing with your methods is a not the sure fire way to win them over. That is the opposite of what is good.
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CaptainWhomp

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Re: Gun Control and Ever-Increasing Government Prohibitions Over the Decades
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2011, 06:42:05 PM »

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Or... Option 3... Change the system ourselves. Heck, do I have to do it alone? Where's the backbone from the libertarian movement?

The problem is that there are very few people who love liberty in the U.S. Some of those people are moving to New Hampshire for the free state project to make some incremental changes to government and to live amongst like-minded people.

Outside of the FSP, I really don't know how successful any libertarianish or freedom-oriented movement is going to be. Hopefully I will be proven wrong!!!  :lol:

Yeah, I've considered moving to the Free State, but I've really found my dream job here, and I'm very hesitant to leave it. It's not something easily duplicated elsewhere. Also, I hate the cold. And I'm not so convinced that civil disobedience is the best course of action either. Sometimes it works, sometimes it backfires. I'm one of those who hasn't given up on repeal. It's just going to take an ample amount of supporters from different walks of life saying the right things, and not backing down at any point or settling for something less than repeal.

Maybe it's true that most of the liberty lovers are gone from the USA, but I don't think politics is necessarily controlled by the majority anyway. I think even the Occupy people, for completely different reasons, would agree on that point. The key is just to find out where the influences lie and then unceasingly lobby and demand. Even a small group should be able to do this.

Maybe someday I'll have the cash to buy a summer home in NH. But even NH is still under the federal jurisdiction, which is the main root of the problem, so I don't see how it's going to help much even if NH becomes completely libertarian.

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MOE from between St. Joe's River and the railroad tracks

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Re: Gun Control and Ever-Increasing Government Prohibitions Over the Decades
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2011, 06:43:28 PM »

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Then get an illegal gun and face the possible consequences.

End of thread. You can either do this or accept your slavery! Good luck! :D
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 06:45:01 PM by PV »
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John Shaw

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Re: Gun Control and Ever-Increasing Government Prohibitions Over the Decades
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2011, 06:49:11 PM »

In case I've sounded insensitive I'll just follow up with this -

I'm not trying to bust your balls, CW.

It's just that if I go to the doctor and he tells me I have cancer, I don't tell him to get rid of 90% of it, and I don't tell him to leave just as much cancer as there was back in 1776. Cancer is bad. You get rid of it.

I have him cut it all out, then radiate the entire area.

Maybe eat some broccoli, too.

But if you think that voting will help, there are a lot of libertarian party types who totally agree with you. You certainly aren't alone.
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CaptainWhomp

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Re: Gun Control and Ever-Increasing Government Prohibitions Over the Decades
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2011, 06:55:23 PM »

So what you're saying is that you want us to join up with the KKK so we can get them to lynch fewer black people, is that right?

I don't beg for my freedom with a hole punched piece of paper every few years.

No thanks.

You go vote. I'll be over here, actually being free.

PROTIP - Calling people names or implying cowardice for disagreeing with your methods is a not the sure fire way to win them over. That is the opposite of what is good.

I'm not going to dignify your first straw man comment by responding to it.

You are delusional if you think you are free now. Me, I'm actually willing to do something about not being free.

This is not about voting. It's lobbying, changing people's minds, meeting politicians at their office, blasting politicians with letters and e-mails, running for federal office ourselves, forming ever-more-powerful groups, and much more. It's actually engaging people on their own turf. These government people only respond to civil disobedience and violence with violence of their own, and in much higher quantities than any of us could dish out alone or even in our small groups. They only listen to what is written in the law -- so let's make those words loud and clear for freedom.

In short, there are years of HARD WORK involved in actually making real change. Dirty, uncomfortable, unpleasant work. Running and hiding is the opposite of doing the things which might actually change the country for the better. I'm sorry you feel that it is pointless, but that's exactly the point of view that I'm trying to change.

Thanks for your comment.
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MOE from between St. Joe's River and the railroad tracks

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Re: Gun Control and Ever-Increasing Government Prohibitions Over the Decades
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2011, 06:58:43 PM »

Hey Captain,

I appreciate your post. What about just spreading the message of liberty to other people who will listen? Ya know, tell them that the government VIOLATES the non-aggression principle and therefore is infringing on common decency.

That's if you can get people away from the TV long enough to hold a meaningful conversation!  :o
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 07:17:55 PM by PV »
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John Shaw

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Re: Gun Control and Ever-Increasing Government Prohibitions Over the Decades
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2011, 06:59:07 PM »

Yeah, I think your methods are incorrect.

Raising your children without violence and ostracizing people who train their children to use violence will remove violence from society.

It is very hard work, yes. And it will take more than one generation.

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CaptainWhomp

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Re: Gun Control and Ever-Increasing Government Prohibitions Over the Decades
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2011, 07:04:25 PM »

In case I've sounded insensitive I'll just follow up with this -

I'm not trying to bust your balls, CW.

It's just that if I go to the doctor and he tells me I have cancer, I don't tell him to get rid of 90% of it, and I don't tell him to leave just as much cancer as there was back in 1776. Cancer is bad. You get rid of it.

I have him cut it all out, then radiate the entire area.

Maybe eat some broccoli, too.

But if you think that voting will help, there are a lot of libertarian party types who totally agree with you. You certainly aren't alone.


Again, not about voting. My frustration comes from the fact that even within the liberty movement (and even within the LP itself), I don't see much work being done. I go to meetings and there is constant infighting, reading of minutes, bickering for an hour over the contents of a press release, and strict adherence to Robert's Rules of Order of all things. None of that actually gets anything done on the federal level.

Why can't we organize to attack with strategic intelligence? It's takes a lot more than just what we're doing either in NH or at LP meeting offices all over the country. We're just burning away our time. In short, I don't think anybody at any level is doing the right thing. Nobody is focused on the root of the tree, just the branches, as Mark said yesterday in the show. This is the original reason I posted this topic.

And don't worry about busting my balls. They are hard as a rock. I've been through far worse.

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CaptainWhomp

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Re: Gun Control and Ever-Increasing Government Prohibitions Over the Decades
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2011, 07:09:12 PM »

Hey Captain,

I appreciate your post. What about just spreading the message of liberty to other people who will listen? Ya know, tell them that the government VIOLATES the non-aggression principle and therefore is infringing on common decency.

That's if you can get people away from the TV long enough to hold a meaningful conversatio!  :o

I do try. I want to do more than just that.

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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Gun Control and Ever-Increasing Government Prohibitions Over the Decades
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2011, 08:26:34 PM »


Or... Option 3... Change the system ourselves. Heck, do I have to do it alone? Where's the backbone from the libertarian movement?

Ok, you wanna try that......fine.

What will you do in the meantime, the way things are now?
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CaptainWhomp

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Re: Gun Control and Ever-Increasing Government Prohibitions Over the Decades
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2011, 11:24:03 PM »

Ok, you wanna try that......fine.

What will you do in the meantime, the way things are now?

Just that:

Quote
It's lobbying, changing people's minds, meeting politicians at their office, blasting politicians with letters and e-mails, running for federal office ourselves, forming ever-more-powerful groups, and much more. It's actually engaging people on their own turf.

That's what I'll do in the meantime. I'd hope others would join me. I just can seem to find anyone in the liberty movement willing to get their hands dirty.

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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Gun Control and Ever-Increasing Government Prohibitions Over the Decades
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2011, 11:40:45 PM »

No, I mean right now, today. What will you do to protect yourself, assuming you feel the need to protect yourself with a firearm they wont "allow" you to have?


Nevermind, dont tell me. I dont need to know.
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CaptainWhomp

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Re: Gun Control and Ever-Increasing Government Prohibitions Over the Decades
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2011, 11:43:05 PM »

No, I mean right now, today. What will you do to protect yourself, assuming you feel the need to protect yourself with a firearm they wont "allow" you to have?

Nevermind, dont tell me. I dont need to know.

Right now I'm naked and crossing my fingers.

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Turd Ferguson

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