The Free Talk Live BBS
Free Talk Live => Guns, Drugs, and Crazy Independence Stuff => Topic started by: John Shaw on October 21, 2011, 01:45:23 PM
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Do you have a stock of provender?
I think having three months or more worth of food is generally a good thing, but we're not crazy about it. How about you?
We've found that both Emergency Essentials and Honeyville Food Products are pretty good suppliers and the prices are pretty good, but I'm always interested in hearing about where people get stuff.
Any other good suppliers?
Also, talk to me about your rotation methods and shit.
If you buy bulk bags, how do you like to store stuff?
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Also, talk to me about your rotation methods and shit.
If you buy bulk bags, how do you like to store stuff?
I don't have the storage for a 3 month pantry, but I can manage 3-4 weeks.
With the international markets here in Atlanta, I'm good for opportunities to buy in bulk.
Knowing how real people are rotating and storing would be great. That's the biggest reason I don't get more.
The online stuff I've read so far seems to be for people who live in a bubble and can store in ideal conditions for a longer periods, or for people with 6-10 kids, making rotating go more quickly.
Even with 4 loaves of bread and several batches of pancakes, biscuits, etc each week, it takes long enough to go through 10 lb bag of flour that I get hit with the pantry moths before I can finish it. Same thing for oats and cornmeal. Rice, beans, canned goods are easier, but I need to get more organized about those too.
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I have the Mountain House #10 cans of freeze-dried chili-mac.
The stuffs pretty tasty. You should give it a try, if you like such things, I promise you wont be disappointed.
Beyond that, I just have dry goods, beans, rice and other things you can get at any grocery store. I generally put store bought things in order on a shelf in the basement as I buy them. For instance, sardines get the new stuff put in the back, then when I grab a can, I take it from the front and any new purchase goes in the back, always pushing the stuff forward, sorta like a bottle of Coke from a vending machine.
I have a MSR water filter and the MSR purifier for that extra last step if needed. I dont store water..........too much of a pain in the ass. I figure its just something I would prepare on the fly when the need came up.
Beyond that, I dont really think too much about it. No checklist, no inventory sheet or any of that. Just simple rotation back to front as I use it.
If the shit ever hit the fan, I would rely quite a bit on hunting critters for a source of protien as well.
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I used to keep about two months larder. But it wasn't because of paranoia or whatever, it was actual living requirements.
The last place I was living, the store was too far away for convenience, and I didn't have a car.
So I kept a bunch of dry bulk along with it, nothing that would impress anyone. Bags of rice, bags of beans. They're cheap enough. I didn't take any protective measures with them, because the bags sometimes have micro-holes in them for a reason. I figured they were less likely to rot if I allowed them to achieve symbiosis with the natural atmosphere. A few bugs won't hurt me, but mold probably would.
The rest was Spam and soups and veggies in cans. Some Ramen. A lot of crackers (I like crackers anyway). Ham spread. Peanut butter. And a reasonably stocked fridge.
I had a regular sized apartment kitchen. Six cabinets down, six cabinets up. Three had glassware and cooking pots. The rest had the foodstuffs.
It wasn't a bad little setup for a single guy. I doubt the whole works was worth more than four hundred bucks.
Now I have a grocery spitting distance, so I don't care. I'm not a big believer in armageddon. I still keep a pantry but it's not as large.
I always have a thousand pounds of meat living right next door, so.. whatever.
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I'm not a big believer in armageddon.
I'm not either, BUT I do believe it is possible. If I had to put odds on it, id say about 10/1 against it ever happening in my lifetime.
I look at it the same way I do a fire exstinguisher. Odds are you will never use it, but why not have it just incase. If I never use it, fine, no sweat off my balls.
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I'm not a big believer in armageddon.
I'm not either, BUT I do believe it is possible. If I had to put odds on it, id say about 10/1 against it ever happening in my lifetime.
I look at it the same way I do a fire exstinguisher. Odds are you will never use it, but why not have it just incase. If I never use it, fine, no sweat off my balls.
Yeah, I agree.
But I never contemplated shooting people if I didn't have a fire extinguisher.
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Not that I am very good at it, but I try and have good relationships with local farmers and fishermen. Watching my father throw money down a well for 40 years on stuff that goes to waste makes me try for things that end up positive for my family whether TSHTF or not. A little trick Nowegians do that I never saw in the U.S. is they take fish (mostly cod but whatever works they say) clean and split them so they hang then dry them outdoors on racks. Makes kind of a fish jerky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockfish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockfish)
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Not that I am very good at it, but I try and have good relationships with local farmers and fishermen. Watching my father throw money down a well for 40 years on stuff that goes to waste makes me try for things that end up positive for my family whether TSHTF or not. A little trick Nowegians do that I never saw in the U.S. is they take fish (mostly cod but whatever works they say) clean and split them so they hang then dry them outdoors on racks. Makes kind of a fish jerky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockfish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockfish)
People do that here, except its more common with venison.
The native americans and Aleutian eskimos (whatever is appropriate to call them) commonly do fish. Or, they did, until canned foods became all the rage.
I've never eaten the outdoor venison, but I know truckloads of people who do it in an oven or dehydrator. This is Appalachia, man. We used to eat coal with whiskey on it.
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Here in Norway they pay certain bureaucrats to count the wildlife and go after poachers with more intensity then a mass murderer. (much less then 90 minute response time) Cod, anybody even a foreigner can pretty much catch all they want. That drying process is basically free except for labour. What I am suggesting is every locality has some cheap and non risk long term storage food. My dad for example decided he couldn't deal with butchering jackrabbits (The free food of the Montanan plains at the time) because he is a cat person and rabbits look a lot like Kitties once the head is lopped off. I think the rabbit hunting- skinning- eating type concepts are a lot better than using precious storage space for 3 months worth of food concept.
Last time the survivalist started to make sense to a lot of regular folks (1976-1983 I am guessing) The government already had a lot of anti hoarder propaganda ready to go. I am sure it is still around.
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The way I did it was everytime I go to the grocery store, I buy two or three of everything I would normally buy just one of. Stick the other two on the shelf. That way, you know for a fact that you are buying stuff you're actually gonna use. Before you know it, you are all set without even really thinking about it.
I hear about some people buying weird survival shit that is out of the ordinary and ask myself why they would do that. In that situation, seems you would want things to be as "normal" as possible, so storing things you already use just seemed to make the most sense to me.
The dried fish seems like a good idea though.
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The way I did it was everytime I go to the grocery store, I buy two or three of everything I would normally buy just one of. Stick the other two on the shelf. That way, you know for a fact that you are buying stuff you're actually gonna use. Before you know it, you are all set without even really thinking about it.
I hear about some people buying weird survival shit that is out of the ordinary and ask myself why they would do that. In that situation, seems you would want things to be as "normal" as possible, so storing things you already use just seemed to make the most sense to me.
The dried fish seems like a good idea though.
Yea, thats how I did mine, too. There was nothing out of the ordinary, except for the bulk beans and rice. They just seemed like a good idea. I ended up pitching a big pile into the food barrel at Thanksgiving.
I saw a HUUUGE survivalist store for Mormons on the History Channel. I'd like to check a place like that out.
The only places we have like that around here is Dicks, which'll charge you $11.99 for a freeze-dried peanut, or the Stinky Old Grumpy Fuck Surplus Store. God knows where they got their stuff, but I think half the meats in their MRE's are extinct.
Y'know, places like that piss me off. I wanted a keychain Swiss Army Knife this summer. Went there, nope. How about a Ka-Bar? Nope.
So I went across the street, to a fucking mountaineering shop. Where you can buy genuine mountaineering shit, like pitons and carabiners (the real ones).
You think they had fucking Swiss Army knives? I felt like I was speaking Swahili. You don't have Swiss Army knives? Nope. You know, Victorinox, with the red handle? Nope.
Head, blown.
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Maybe the same thing bit us both in the ass. Leatherman is doing some underhanded shit with retailers I think. I use a Gerber Multi-tool and have to replace them every five years or so. I notice they are getting harder and harder to find but the same stores sell Leatherman and knock offs. Swiss army knives are getting thinner on the ground around here as well. My perfect pocket knife would be Gerber pliers with Swiss Army knife foldouts. I don't like anything about the Leathermen, but Dragline says they are better at deflecting a bullet.
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Maybe the same thing bit us both in the ass. Leatherman is doing some underhanded shit with retailers I think. I use a Gerber Multi-tool and have to replace them every five years or so. I notice they are getting harder and harder to find but the same stores sell Leatherman and knock offs. Swiss army knives are getting thinner on the ground around here as well. My perfect pocket knife would be Gerber pliers with Swiss Army knife foldouts. I don't like anything about the Leathermen, but Dragline says they are better at deflecting a bullet.
I have a couple Swiss Army knives and a couple Leathermans (and knockoffs) and I gotta say the genuine leatherman is my favorite.
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I just updated myself on all three websights. I should have said "I like the slide-out pliers and inside folding locking blades type knife" (only Gerber makes them). I think the quality of machining and steel quality is best on the Swiss. I am glad you like Leatherman and if I am wrong about them manipulating retailers I am sorry, but it happens a lot in the town I work in, and I really don't like it. Yamaha manipulated the market in Northern Norway for a while. I used to love the brand 'til I found out about that.
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The way I did it was everytime I go to the grocery store, I buy two or three of everything I would normally buy just one of. Stick the other two on the shelf. That way, you know for a fact that you are buying stuff you're actually gonna use. Before you know it, you are all set without even really thinking about it.
I hear about some people buying weird survival shit that is out of the ordinary and ask myself why they would do that. In that situation, seems you would want things to be as "normal" as possible, so storing things you already use just seemed to make the most sense to me.
The dried fish seems like a good idea though.
I do things mostly this way, but there are staples we use a lot of - flour, oats, canned/dried milk, rice - I can save a great deal on if I can get it 10+ lbs, especially if I'm getting the premium stuff. That's where I'm hoping to find out more about storage options.
Not a survivalist, but I can see how I might lean that way if I lived farther north in a rural area. My well-stocked pantry came in handy during the week Atlanta was encased in a sheet of ice. Didn't have to participate in the pre-storm crazy shopping, and didn't worry about a thing. Three meals a day for five people, plus extra baking of cookies and loaves of bread for sandwiches when neighborhood children descended in hordes. That's the kind of emergency I prepare for. It wouldn't be tough to scale my current stock up to where it can cover a longer period.
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I should have said "I like the slide-out pliers and inside folding locking blades type knife" (only Gerber makes them).
Might be the exact one I like. I've had mine for over ten years and have used it just about every day either at work, or for something I need done at home. Never had a problem with it, cept having to sharpen the blade on the knife every now and then. Other than that........ nothing. The thing is sturdy.
(http://caughtinthexfire.mu.nu/archives/Gerber%20multi%20tool.jpg)
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I like the Hemp protein powder from http://hempusa.org/
Its $100 for a 5lb container, and tastes good in milk to me.
The Survival Podcast has many sponsers and ides for storing food but, I haven't tried any of them.
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If I had to store grains for a long time, I'd probably put a garbage bag inside a 5-gallon bucket and fill 'er up. Tie a knot in it, hard. Snap the lid on.
If that doesn't keep pests out, you've got some damn determined pests.
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They suggest oxygen absorbers and light blocking bags when you do that. Supposedly the litter critter's eggs are in just about every type bean and rice we buy.
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Makes sense. I can see the need for a desiccant. I donno how much light would filter through a bucket, black bag, in a dimly-lit cellar, though.
I used to use black "lawn bags" on my windows when I worked the midnights, so I could sleep in the day. Regular garbage bags don't work, they look amber when the light comes through. But the heavy 14-mil lawn+construction bags, jet black. Superblack. Ultra-black. Blacker than black.
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I'd be hesitant to use garbage bags if the food was going directly into them. They're just not designed to come in direct contact with food. (Not sure if that's what you meant, though.)
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I'd be hesitant to use garbage bags if the food was going directly into them. They're just not designed to come in direct contact with food. (Not sure if that's what you meant, though.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LDPE
Generally, the only difference between "industrial" plastic applications and food-grade plastic (if its "PE") is the food-grade has to use edible, food-grade lubricants in the manufacturing process.
Minus that difference, this is what they make many food containment products. Saran wrap, milk jugs, sandwich bags - you name it.
Its not really the plastic itself, but the FDA requirements of hair nets, factory conditions, and lubricants.
I'd be more concerned about the pesticides and "acceptable" contaminants like rat droppings than the off-gassing of the plastic. That same plastic is soda bottles, etc. Even the white pickle-buckets, polyethylene.
Just sayin'.
The only plsatic you should be concerned with (for long-term storage) is the PVC with the recycle code #3
Heres a handy-dandy chart..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resin_identification_code
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The only "real" way to pack stuff for long term storage is:
Line a bucket with food grade metallic mylar bags
Pour your crap in it and fill it up only enough so that you can seal it
Take it out of the bucket
Flush it with nitrogen
Put in an oxygen absorber in the bag
Vacuum seal it
If you do it that way, it will store pretty much indefenetly. I'm guessing its about $500 in equipment to do it the right way.
Or you can just buy it already done for you. You'd probably have to pack about a ton of stuff before you broke even in terms of DIY or buying it in a bucket already.
It makes sense to get the freshest available product to store, too. Do it in the fall, after harvest. Etc.
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Thats pretty neat.
How about blue five-gallon water jugs, tap a bung into it, then dip the top in hot wax?
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Not bad. But depending on the price of the container...
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I like the simplicity of the sealed 5 gallon bucket, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to stop the moths... plus, I have my underage kitchen helpers who might not seal it all the way. I'll save BJ's impressive storage method for when zombies/apes/robots/mother nature rise up to destroy humans and I need to think L-O-N-G term storage for safe transport on our trek to higher ground.
I'm going to try buying a 10# bag each of the multigrain (gluten free) and all purpose flour I like and scooping it into 1 gal ziploc bags. In four weeks as I'm using up the last of it, if I don't have a flock of pantry moths, I'll know I've found what works.
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I'd be hesitant to use garbage bags if the food was going directly into them. They're just not designed to come in direct contact with food. (Not sure if that's what you meant, though.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LDPE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LDPE)
Generally, the only difference between "industrial" plastic applications and food-grade plastic (if its "PE") is the food-grade has to use edible, food-grade lubricants in the manufacturing process.
Minus that difference, this is what they make many food containment products. Saran wrap, milk jugs, sandwich bags - you name it.
Its not really the plastic itself, but the FDA requirements of hair nets, factory conditions, and lubricants.
I'd be more concerned about the pesticides and "acceptable" contaminants like rat droppings than the off-gassing of the plastic. That same plastic is soda bottles, etc. Even the white pickle-buckets, polyethylene.
Just sayin'.
The only plsatic you should be concerned with (for long-term storage) is the PVC with the recycle code #3
Heres a handy-dandy chart..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resin_identification_code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resin_identification_code)
Learn something new every day!
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I like the simplicity of the sealed 5 gallon bucket, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to stop the moths... plus, I have my underage kitchen helpers who might not seal it all the way. I'll save BJ's impressive storage method for when zombies/apes/robots/mother nature rise up to destroy humans and I need to think L-O-N-G term storage for safe transport on our trek to higher ground.
I'm going to try buying a 10# bag each of the multigrain (gluten free) and all purpose flour I like and scooping it into 1 gal ziploc bags. In four weeks as I'm using up the last of it, if I don't have a flock of pantry moths, I'll know I've found what works.
I have no idea where I heard this, if it's true, or to what extent it's even logical...but I heard if you freeze it for a couple days and then take it out it should be fine. Sounds crazy to me, but you may not have much to lose.
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I like the simplicity of the sealed 5 gallon bucket, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to stop the moths... plus, I have my underage kitchen helpers who might not seal it all the way. I'll save BJ's impressive storage method for when zombies/apes/robots/mother nature rise up to destroy humans and I need to think L-O-N-G term storage for safe transport on our trek to higher ground.
I'm going to try buying a 10# bag each of the multigrain (gluten free) and all purpose flour I like and scooping it into 1 gal ziploc bags. In four weeks as I'm using up the last of it, if I don't have a flock of pantry moths, I'll know I've found what works.
You could sift the flour, and seal into 1lb. Ziploc bags, and then toss them into the 5lb. storage container. less mess that way.
If you hated yourself, you could also bake the flour into hardtack, which would make it last longer than bread.
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I'm going to try buying a 10# bag each of the multigrain (gluten free) and all purpose flour I like and scooping it into 1 gal ziploc bags. In four weeks as I'm using up the last of it, if I don't have a flock of pantry moths, I'll know I've found what works.
I have no idea where I heard this, if it's true, or to what extent it's even logical...but I heard if you freeze it for a couple days and then take it out it should be fine. Sounds crazy to me, but you may not have much to lose.
You probably heard it from somebody's grandma in Florida. Makes sense too, since it's even warmer and more humid than Georgia, where I'm convinced I'm brining the little hatchlings home from the store in my paper flour sacks.
Looking it up and giving it a try - thanks Lindsay!
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I like the Hemp protein powder from http://hempusa.org/ (http://hempusa.org/)
Its $100 for a 5lb container, and tastes good in milk to me.
The Survival Podcast has many sponsors and ideas for storing food but, I haven't tried any of them.
I listen to The Survival Podcast too. For my food preps I follow the aforementioned method of buying extra of anything that isnt likely to go bad when I shop. Peanut butter, rice, pasta, ramen, canned veggies, bullion cubes, etc.
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I like the Hemp protein powder from http://hempusa.org/ (http://hempusa.org/)
Its $100 for a 5lb container, and tastes good in milk to me.
The Survival Podcast has many sponsors and ideas for storing food but, I haven't tried any of them.
I listen to The Survival Podcast too. For my food preps I follow the aforementioned method of buying extra of anything that isnt likely to go bad when I shop. Peanut butter, rice, pasta, ramen, canned veggies, bullion cubes, etc.
I started listening to that show on your recommendation. The guy goes into some great detail and offers very well thought out ideas on a whole slew of subjects. Its a good listen.
Only thing that bugs me about the guy is his unwavering support for the troops no matter what and the idea that they should be put on a pedestal for "serving our country".
I can look past that hangup for the most part though.
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I like the Hemp protein powder from http://hempusa.org/ (http://hempusa.org/)
Its $100 for a 5lb container, and tastes good in milk to me.
The Survival Podcast has many sponsors and ideas for storing food but, I haven't tried any of them.
I listen to The Survival Podcast too. For my food preps I follow the aforementioned method of buying extra of anything that isnt likely to go bad when I shop. Peanut butter, rice, pasta, ramen, canned veggies, bullion cubes, etc.
I started listening to that show on your recommendation. The guy goes into some great detail and offers very well thought out ideas on a whole slew of subjects. Its a good listen.
Only thing that bugs me about the guy is his unwavering support for the troops no matter what and the idea that they should be put on a pedestal for "serving our country".
I can look past that hangup for the most part though.
Mike, I agree with you about his constant talk of supporting the troops - its irksome. I've been thinking about asking him about it on his forum.
I suspect he may do this to attract a large part of his audience.
On the other hand, I also do know alot of former troops (including my own son in the airforce) that went to Iraq and did treat the Iraqi's nice. I think most of them are probably good guys - just the overall picture makes me want to lump them all in the same evil boat.
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On the other hand, I also do know alot of former troops (including my own son in the airforce) that went to Iraq and did treat the Iraqi's nice.
Yeah Fred, I'd rather someone like your son be over there instead of some dude getting his rocks off throwing puppies off of cliffs and busting into peoples houses with guns a blazin', if theyre gonna be there anyway. I just dont get the hosts "service to the country" thing. I mean, why not also thank the guy that makes your coffee at Starbucks, or the guy that fixes your computer so you can do business? They all get paid to do what they do, so taking one over the other seems a little lopsided. The thing I speaking of specifically, is where the host of that show gives discounts to military members and Peace Corps members on their subscription price. Its his business, he can do whatever he wants..... its his thing, so whatever. Just irks me a little that he thinks THOSE services are somehow a cut above anyone else providing a service for profit.
No biggie really. Just me bitching.
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Well to be fair, starbucks employees don't generally get shot at...
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Well to be fair, starbucks employees don't generally get shot at...
Yeah but they dont get paid as much either. Hey, they can scald their fingers on some hot steam and get a nasty 2nd degree burn while making that frothy espresso ya know. Dangerous stuff. :P
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Well to be fair, starbucks employees don't generally get shot at...
As the economy get worse they might be more and more. Maybe they will get a discount then. :D
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Yea, Jack's full of shit on this one..
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Anyone else have a SamsClub membership? Its nice.
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Anyone else have a SamsClub membership? Its nice.
I have the business membership. 5 bucks cheaper a year than the regular membership, and a few extra benefits. Yeah, its not bad at all. Bulk is the way to go on stuff youre gonna use alot anyway. The savings add up pretty fast.
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Anyone else have a SamsClub membership? Its nice.
Yep. Gotta drive 50 miles to get there though.....
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It definitely has saved me money. And it isnt any further to get there for me. I never really looked into getting a different form of membership however, gonna have to look it up.
Simple savings such as getting a product for the same price as walmart or the grocery store, but you get a bigger size is awesome. Not to mention the cheapness of most things they sell. My freezer gets packed.
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This is what my food storage is based on.
Wendy Dewitt -- Food Storage Seminar, Part 1 of 9. "Top 10 Reasons" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGaTlwYs-s#)
I am not Mormon, but I think they have got it together on the food storage issue.
The canned meats are awesome. Can use them in so many different ways. It is a little like work canning, but I actually enjoy it.
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I have a lot of canned salsa, meat, tomatoes, etc from my parents farm :) YUMMY
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The only "real" way to pack stuff for long term storage is:
Line a bucket with food grade metallic mylar bags
Pour your crap in it and fill it up only enough so that you can seal it
Take it out of the bucket
Flush it with nitrogen
Put in an oxygen absorber in the bag
Vacuum seal it
If you do it that way, it will store pretty much indefenetly. I'm guessing its about $500 in equipment to do it the right way.
Or you can just buy it already done for you. You'd probably have to pack about a ton of stuff before you broke even in terms of DIY or buying it in a bucket already.
It makes sense to get the freshest available product to store, too. Do it in the fall, after harvest. Etc.
How about this stuff? Seems like it's pretty good, and all the work (nitrogen/vacuuming) is already done for you. You just buy the bucket, or individual packs depending on your paranoia level... :)
http://wisefoodstorage.com/ (http://wisefoodstorage.com/)
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Is it tasty?
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Is it tasty?
No idea. Looks like you can request a free sample on the website though.
Curry
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We've got a 60 serving bucket of the Wise food. It's expensive but it's a good quality product. S'all freeze dried meals. You dump boiling water in and a few minutes later you have food.
It's as good as any off the shelf noodle/gravy dish.
Like hambrger helper etc. only classier.
Their stuff has a 20 year shelf life, though, which is pretty awesome.
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Cool
I ordered the sample. I like curry, so it shouldn't be bad. I'll prob place an order after that if I really like it.
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They're a soonest of FTL now. Mark reviewed them and
said they are tasty.
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Their stuff has a 20 year shelf life, though, which is pretty awesome.
Yeah, and from what I've heard about most of this stuff, that 20 yr shelf life is just a "suggestion" to cover their asses. It can actually last alot longer than that, just with a little loss of flavor and freshness. Still fine to eat though.
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Whatever you do, don't get freeze dried cottage cheese.
Terrible.
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Whatever you do, don't get freeze dried cottage cheese.
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ7JMqDIiphqNVD4getgBaN4V7msMXyj9fwQxtmcLGKQqMeM4lh)
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Look at these Black Friday bargain shoppers going bonkers over PS3 games and waffle irons, then imagine these same people in a situation like a food shortage or some other seriously insane shit. Kinda puts it all in perspective.
They'd probably eat each others children.
Walmart - Porter Ranch, CA - Black Friday Video Game Carnage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-K7xDHAfdA#)
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What do they need to hide the games all over the store? That is ridiculous. The stores probably love it though, because it is impulse buying at its worst. Lots of people buying crap they dont need and not thinking about it as they're doing it.
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Woman Pepper Sprays Children To Get XBox 360 On Black Friday 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrQXXqSz-kc#ws)