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Author Topic: Zug info for Brasky  (Read 8323 times)

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fatcat

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Zug info for Brasky
« on: October 10, 2008, 05:40:14 PM »

Not sure if the info I layed down in your thread is gonna get lost. By the time i typed what I had 8 people had posted so I'm gonna throw it up here aswell and add more to it as it goes




I'll try and have as much fact answers and as little filler as possible.

1000 U.S. dollars = 1,119.7 Swiss francs (CHF)

Switzerland GDP (PPP) per Capita = $41,264  -  U.S. GDP per Capita = $43,444

Theres no minimum wage in Switzerland, the most recent data on average wage i could find was from 2001, and that was:

CHF 103,092 a year which is $92,062.9086

Although with modern inflation rates and exchange rates who knows what that now works out to.

Here are some average figures for wages for certain jobs

I should state now, anyone intending to move to Switzerland either needs a good skill (doctor, dentist engineer etc), be planning to retire, or have a business with an annual turnover of more than 200,000 CHF. Starting a business is pretty much the easiest way to get residency.

Its by no means easy or cheap, but hey, freedom isn't free  :)


Health care isn't socialized, however it is necessary to have insurance, which admittedly is shit, but for me it and the other few shit points aren't enough to outweigh the benefits compared to other options. I'll go into the insurance system more when i get the time.


Tax rates differ hugely across the country. Each Canton is far more independent in the taxes and laws it can set compared to US states. Zug, my Canton of choice, has the lowest taxes in switzerland, which is less than half of the highest taxed Canton.

Its hard to get a concrete number, as Swiss taxes are pretty diffuse and most of the information tends to be in German and in PDF form which makes it pretty fucking difficult to decypher.

Here's a PDF with Individual and Corporate income tax

For an Individual earning CHF  150,000 ($133,952.55), you will pay CHF  7825 ($6,987) to Zug, which is 5.1% and you will pay CHF 3007 ($2,685), which is 2%.

So total income tax for living in Zug is 7%
. Putting this in more day to day numbers, $40,000 a year in zug would be taxed $2,800, thats both the state and federal taxes combined.

Compare this to the most heavily taxed Canton in (Neuenburg) 23,500 CHF + 3007 federal = 26,507 = 17% total income tax

The business end of the deal in Zug is equally low taxed, and the reason why the largest town in Zug has more businesses than people based their.

For a business with 2 million CHF in equity, and a net profit of 160,000 CHF, the tax is  11,000 state, and 11,000 federal.

Which is a combined tax percentage of 13.75%. I believe there is an even lower tax bracket for smaller companies, and a slightly higher 16% rate for even larger businesses, although i've been looking over so many numbers its hard to know which are still relevant and which include which other taxes so by all means crunch the numbers yourself and let me know if i fucked up.

there are other factors which I will compile, and I'm working on a PDF trying to get all this data + the important laws in shiny graphs and charts and shit which i'll throw up here when finished for those who are interested.

I'm going to post this now and come back and add more cause I've had about enough scanning through swiss tax sites for today.


Brasky, sorry I didn't get round to consumer prices and others, I'll finish them off next chance i get, and  I'll rattle off the ones I know off the top of my head here.

for immigration, it takes 12 years to become naturalized, although any time you spend their under age 20 counts double.

If you got in on a marriage you get a permanent residency permit, which essentially means you can't be kicked out unless you break enough laws to piss of a bureaucrat. If you're in on a residency work permit, you can get kicked out as soon as you're unemployed for a certain number of weeks (cant remember from the top of my head). If you're in on retirement, you're pretty much in for life, but you have to move with a certain amount of money to get the retirement permit. If you're in on a business residency permit you're there for as long as you have a business.

Immigration guidelines for Europeans

Immigration guidelines for non Europeans



Some laws you probably won't be happy with :

concealed carry permits for handguns are pretty difficult to get

military service for swiss citizens is semi mandatory
although it doesn't apply to immigrants to my knowledge, its not mandatory for women and you can get out of it on medical reasons / dismissals, only around 55-60% actually complete the training, and the whole thing is stretched out over a few days a month for a couple of years.

'Conscientious objectors can choose 390 days of community service instead of military service'


Medical insurance is mandatory (i think)

there are probably others that I'll add when i can remember t hem

on the plus side:

carrying a rifle is fine

-Cannabis is completely decrim to own, grow (in industrial quantities), and sell (in shops) in 10 out of 26 cantons and rising.

Other drug use is largely tolerated, heroin addicts are given welfare heroin instead of jail time, not ideal, but better than paying for imprisonment, and the black market impacts are largely alleviated

-government hasn't invaded another country in 100+ years (this is what makes the military service tolerable for me, that and the fact that because of the militia system the government will probably never ban assault rifles)

-Prostitution legal

-Euthanasia legal
« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 05:55:00 PM by fatcat »
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AntonLee

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Re: Zug info for Brasky
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2008, 10:58:43 PM »

I like some of the rights you mention there.  This is definitely interesting for sure.
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blackie

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Re: Zug info for Brasky
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2008, 11:06:00 PM »

Homeschooling is restricted in Zug.

http://www.cruxmove.com/SwissHomeSchooling.htm
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atomiccat

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Re: Zug info for Brasky
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2008, 03:48:37 AM »

I think i want to move to Switzerland now

fatcat

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Re: Zug info for Brasky
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2008, 11:57:30 AM »

I think i want to move to Switzerland now
I may be getting ahead of myself, and I havent researched to any serious degree - obviously...  But all things being equal, you could enter that country and throw your passport in a garbage can and live peacefully off the grid for the remainder of your life.  Your legal status would only become an issue if you were arrested or worked a job where you were required to declare taxes.  Apply the methods of illegal citizens here to yourself, and think of them (you) living here (there).  Its hardly what I'd consider impossible. 

Indeed. I would assume having friends/family in Switzerland would make the whole thing alot easier.

The nature of the Swiss economy would make it hard to get jobs that weren't tax registered, and having no minimum wage drastically reduces the competitiveness of illegal immigrants.

I'm not sure if I mentioned already that marrying a Swiss citizen is pretty much a guaranteed pass

Retiring if you're over 55 or Investing if you're under 55 is also a good method if you have quite alot of cash but no business. You do need to have an annual income of $90,000, but on the plus side you can bring over your spouse and children without them having the same income, so if you are married, i imagine combining retirement funds & investments, then putting it in the name of one person could get you over on far less than $90,000.

If you happen to work for a large corporation, chances are they might be based in Zug for tax reasons, so its worth seeing if you could get a position there, as Swiss immigration usually want a reason for a company to hire out of the country.
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Russell Griswold

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Re: Zug info for Brasky
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2008, 11:47:31 PM »

Thank goodness Ron Paul isn't in Switzerland to barb up them borders.
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blackie

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Re: Zug info for Brasky
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2008, 09:15:59 AM »

Quote
concealed carry permits for handguns are pretty difficult to get
My understanding is that it is a "license to bear arms", not just CC handguns.

carrying a rifle is fine
An uloaded rifle to and from the range?


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blackie

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Re: Zug info for Brasky
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2008, 09:16:45 AM »

Maybe their schools are wicked smart. 
What would that matter?
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blackie

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Re: Zug info for Brasky
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2008, 09:37:01 AM »

We're talking about the legal methods.  Its worth mentioning, you could buy a plane ticket and live there tomorrow if you stay under the radar.  You only need a passport to enter. 

I may be getting ahead of myself, and I havent researched to any serious degree - obviously...  But all things being equal, you could enter that country and throw your passport in a garbage can and live peacefully off the grid for the remainder of your life.  Your legal status would only become an issue if you were arrested or worked a job where you were required to declare taxes.  Apply the methods of illegal citizens here to yourself, and think of them (you) living here (there).  Its hardly what I'd consider impossible. 
Why even bother using a passport to get in?

If you are willing to live underground, going underground in the country you have citizenship in becomes much more attractive, and less risky.
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blackie

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Re: Zug info for Brasky
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2008, 01:19:20 PM »

We're talking about the legal methods.  Its worth mentioning, you could buy a plane ticket and live there tomorrow if you stay under the radar.  You only need a passport to enter. 

I may be getting ahead of myself, and I havent researched to any serious degree - obviously...  But all things being equal, you could enter that country and throw your passport in a garbage can and live peacefully off the grid for the remainder of your life.  Your legal status would only become an issue if you were arrested or worked a job where you were required to declare taxes.  Apply the methods of illegal citizens here to yourself, and think of them (you) living here (there).  Its hardly what I'd consider impossible. 
Why even bother using a passport to get in?

If you are willing to live underground, going underground in the country you have citizenship in becomes much more attractive, and less risky.

Because it would probably be difficult to travel from Switzerland to anywhere else, ever, if you can't show passage? 
I'd much rather do it like the "terrorists". Travel to a neighboring coutry using a passport, then sneak into Switzerland. If I want to travel again, go back to the neighboring country, and travel from there.

But this is one of the reasons I like the idea of an island, or at least a country that has a coast line. I need a sail boat.

Quote
Living underground in the US is not attractive to me at all, because you can get snagged for so many things illegal that arrest is inevitable, statistically.  If the illegal things were legal, they would have no reason to identify you during arrest, because there would be no arrest.
I don't see arrest as statistically inevitable. I guess it depends what you are doing, and where in the USA you are. The place I can blend in the best is in the USA. I would stick out in just about any other country.
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blackie

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Re: Zug info for Brasky
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2008, 05:33:17 PM »

Seems like a lot of trouble to sneak somewhere and sneak back again, when you could come in legally and still sneak, but without the extra-sneakiness. 

Underground is underground.  If you got busted in a country you were stamped for, you could just claim to be a loafing, shiftless idiot.  But if you got busted in a country when your last known stamp was for a neighboring country, theres a little bit more 'splainin to do, Lucy. 

Is there a real good reason to do this, maybe I'm just not seeing the obvious. 
I just don't want to leave a paper trail if I know I'm going to be breaking the rules.


Quote
Sailboat, I'm down with that.  Its a major component of one of my master plans (I have several, each slightly ridiculous).  Problem with sailboats is you need to know how to sail.  Its not exactly cake.  Sailing is some complicated shit.  However, I apply the basic rule to it:  A million people do it, I can too.  When (if) buying a boat, be prepared to drop a grand on someone who knows sailing.  Unless you have a competent sailing friend who will spend a few weeks teaching you everything he knows for free, of course. 

Other bad thing about sailing (and boats in general) is pirates.  You get into the blue water, you can actually get hijacked.  Its really not uncommon in the Caribbean.  This is why you'll occasionally see caravans of sailing boats, safety in numbers.  Kinda like truckers will run in packs on highways.  They don't know each other, they just gang up on a run.  You can get scoped from wayyyy the fuck out when sailing, followed for many hours or a few days.  Boats are expensive, fetch a nice paycheck, and sail a long way from where they were grabbed. 
I don't think I would worry very much about being hijacked. Sure it could happen. I wouldn't have the nicest boat around. I would want it to be seaworthy, but I'm not looking to impress the guys at the yacht club.

My biggest fear about sailing, and living on a boat is the weather. It can turn from a beautiful day into a shit storm before you know what hit you.
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Taors

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Re: Zug info for Brasky
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2008, 06:35:15 PM »


I'd much rather do it like the "terrorists". Travel to a neighboring coutry using a passport, then sneak into Switzerland. If I want to travel again, go back to the neighboring country, and travel from there.

But this is one of the reasons I like the idea of an island, or at least a country that has a coast line. I need a sail boat.



Other bad thing about sailing (and boats in general) is pirates.  You get into the blue water, you can actually get hijacked.  Its really not uncommon in the Caribbean.  This is why you'll occasionally see caravans of sailing boats, safety in numbers.  Kinda like truckers will run in packs on highways.  They don't know each other, they just gang up on a run.  You can get scoped from wayyyy the fuck out when sailing, followed for many hours or a few days.  Boats are expensive, fetch a nice paycheck, and sail a long way from where they were grabbed. 

If they take your boat, what do they do with you?
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Russell Griswold

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Re: Zug info for Brasky
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2008, 08:14:39 PM »

they drive a fuckin Danzi up on your ass   

A Donzi? The high speed boat?

They don't take American Express at the marina in Cunta Punta. 

And this is what happened to the last guy that tried to use one:
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blackie

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Re: Zug info for Brasky
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2008, 11:07:09 PM »

So fitting the profile of the nondescript guy with a banged up seaworthy craft is not exactly a great idea, since thats exactly what they're looking for.   
Maybe I will start my own pirate crew. I wouldn't want to live on a boat alone.
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Taors

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Re: Zug info for Brasky
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2008, 09:24:39 AM »

So fitting the profile of the nondescript guy with a banged up seaworthy craft is not exactly a great idea, since thats exactly what they're looking for.   
Maybe I will start my own pirate crew. I wouldn't want to live on a boat alone.

But since you've got kids, it'd never work.  They need a yard and stuff. 

That's not what they told the Swiss Family Robinson.
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