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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Your drug habits in a world without drug laws.
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2010, 10:31:25 PM »

What I mean by that is unlike pot, for example, alcohol is a poison and the effect of the poisoning makes you high.  In my opinion, this makes alcohol worse than just a drug.  If drug laws made any sense (forget the morality for a moment), one that poisons you would not be practically encouraged while possession (in enough quantity) of alternatives that don't is a felony.  :shock:

How do you define "poison" in such a way as to include alcohol but exclude other recreational drugs?

Well, between cannabis and alcohol, it's easy.  Cannabis just tickles receptors, and can't kill you in any likely dose (you'd have to eat several whole plants.)  The way alcohol works is by poisoning you.  Don't know enough about others, but I don't think any of them work by poisoning you.

I'll have to mull over the responses.  Maybe the sentiment only reasonably applies to cannabis, and not other drugs, though I think it's important that alcohol works by poisoning.  I guess a lot of drugs may.  I'm aware that moderate poisoning can be tolerated if there's a positive side effect (such as with red wine, where it's not actually the alcohol that's good for you, but apparently a reagent.)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 10:36:32 PM by What's the frequency, Kenneth? »
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Rillion

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Re: Your drug habits in a world without drug laws.
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2010, 10:35:15 PM »

What I mean by that is unlike pot, for example, alcohol is a poison and the effect of the poisoning makes you high.  In my opinion, this makes alcohol worse than just a drug.  If drug laws made any sense (forget the morality for a moment), one that poisons you would not be practically encouraged while possession (in enough quantity) of alternatives that don't is a felony.  :shock:

How do you define "poison" in such a way as to include alcohol but exclude other recreational drugs?

Well, between cannabis and alcohol, it's easy.  Cannabis just tickles receptors, and can't kill you in any likely dose (you'd have to eat several whole plants.)  The way alcohol works is by poisoning you.  Don't know enough about others, but I don't think any of them work by poisoning you.

Again, please define what "poisoning you" means.  Because when I look at Wikipedia, I see this:

Quote
The most commonly used alcohol is ethanol, C2H5OH, with the ethane backbone. Ethanol has been produced and consumed by humans for millennia, in the form of fermented and distilled alcoholic beverages, and was isolated by the Persian alchemist Rāzi (Rhazes) around 900 AD. It is a clear flammable liquid that boils at 78.4 C, which is used as an industrial solvent, car fuel, and raw material in the chemical industry. In the US and some other countries, because of legal and tax restrictions on alcohol consumption, ethanol destined for other uses often contains additives that make it unpalatable (such as Bitrex) or poisonous (such as methanol). Ethanol in this form is known generally as denatured alcohol; when methanol is used, it may be referred to as methylated spirits ("Meths") or "surgical spirits".
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Your drug habits in a world without drug laws.
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2010, 10:50:37 PM »

What I mean by that is unlike pot, for example, alcohol is a poison and the effect of the poisoning makes you high.  In my opinion, this makes alcohol worse than just a drug.  If drug laws made any sense (forget the morality for a moment), one that poisons you would not be practically encouraged while possession (in enough quantity) of alternatives that don't is a felony.  :shock:

How do you define "poison" in such a way as to include alcohol but exclude other recreational drugs?

Well, between cannabis and alcohol, it's easy.  Cannabis just tickles receptors, and can't kill you in any likely dose (you'd have to eat several whole plants.)  The way alcohol works is by poisoning you.  Don't know enough about others, but I don't think any of them work by poisoning you.

Again, please define what "poisoning you" means.  Because when I look at Wikipedia, I see this:

Quote
The most commonly used alcohol is ethanol, C2H5OH, with the ethane backbone. Ethanol has been produced and consumed by humans for millennia, in the form of fermented and distilled alcoholic beverages, and was isolated by the Persian alchemist Rāzi (Rhazes) around 900 AD. It is a clear flammable liquid that boils at 78.4 C, which is used as an industrial solvent, car fuel, and raw material in the chemical industry. In the US and some other countries, because of legal and tax restrictions on alcohol consumption, ethanol destined for other uses often contains additives that make it unpalatable (such as Bitrex) or poisonous (such as methanol). Ethanol in this form is known generally as denatured alcohol; when methanol is used, it may be referred to as methylated spirits ("Meths") or "surgical spirits".

I seem to have been misinformed about how alcohol works.  I found this page at How Stuff Works (and the article in general) helpful to improve my understanding (basically, the effect that makes you high is not directly related to the effect, of which there are multiple, that may kill you.)

I'm willing to accept that the major difference appears to be the likelihood of or ability to cause death or permanent harm.

With regard to the text you quoted, I was not referring to methanol or any other form not considered "safe" for ingestion.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 10:57:57 PM by What's the frequency, Kenneth? »
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One two three

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Re: Your drug habits in a world without drug laws.
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2010, 10:58:55 PM »

The same.  Well, if there were no laws against alcohol, I may drink higher quality stuff but pay less :)
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freeAgent

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Re: Your drug habits in a world without drug laws.
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2010, 11:18:41 PM »

Yeah, I think it's ridiculous that the government actually mandates that alcohol not sold (and taxed!) explicitly for consumption be made poisonous to humans.
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Your drug habits in a world without drug laws.
« Reply #50 on: March 16, 2010, 01:51:04 AM »

Yeah, I think it's ridiculous that the government actually mandates that alcohol not sold (and taxed!) explicitly for consumption be made poisonous to humans.

If a company decided to do it of their own volition, the government would put them out of business after the first death.  However, since it's that way by law, the government ignores the deaths.
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Your drug habits in a world without drug laws.
« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2010, 02:41:05 AM »

I seem to recall hearing an interview with an Iowa alcoholic who worked at an ethanol plant. He decided to try some before it was specifically poisoned.

He woke up in the hospital two days later and lost his job in the process . . . shit's powerful . . .
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freeAgent

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Re: Your drug habits in a world without drug laws.
« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2010, 08:46:51 AM »

I seem to recall hearing an interview with an Iowa alcoholic who worked at an ethanol plant. He decided to try some before it was specifically poisoned.

He woke up in the hospital two days later and lost his job in the process . . . shit's powerful . . .

He probably downed something like 90-100% pure alcohol.  One shot-sized amount of that would be like 2+ shots of vodka.  It wouldn't take much.
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timmysoboy

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Re: Your drug habits in a world without drug laws.
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2010, 08:06:23 PM »

Salvia was just banned in WI last week officially. The ASSHOLES!


(edit: exceptions apply of course)

FFFFUUUCK!  I was planning on reading the whole damn thread, that way I could make a half ways decent post.  Then I read this.  Shit's already banned in my home state of MN.  Now I'm going to have to travel to the Dakotas, or god forbid Iowa when I'm home on leave!

If drugs were legal (and assuming I was not in the army) I'd probably take up (weed) joint rolling as an art form.  Would step into the relm of hillucinagens once or twice a year (to include shrooms, acid, salvia).  I'd like to try pure opium once or twice. 

As far as stimulants go, I probably wouldn't touch many at all, due strictly the their (and my) addictive nature.

I'm too far down the Nicotine, Alcohol and Caffine to turn around now.  Besides, my Moms did not raise a quiter

All'n all, no change to the status quo.
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