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Free Talk Live => General => Topic started by: Alex Libman on April 21, 2009, 11:12:26 PM

Title: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: Alex Libman on April 21, 2009, 11:12:26 PM

Some good news for a change:

• Fertility expert: 'I can clone a human being' (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/fertility-expert-i-can-clone-a-human-being-1672095.html)

• Controversial fertility doctor says the first cloned human 'will be born within two years' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1172487/Controversial-fertility-doctor-says-cloned-human-born-years.html)

If you bought yourself a cemetery plot ~50 years in advance, now may be a good time to sell.   8)

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith) on April 21, 2009, 11:47:00 PM

Neat, slave drones for the future.  I think this is the answer to your childless tax thread.

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: Alex Libman on April 22, 2009, 01:19:29 AM

Not really, all human cloning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_cloning) does is improve the genetic quality of the babies, someone still has to do the dirty work and raise them for ~18 years, which is very expensive.  And not everyone is willing to pull their demographic weight - that's why we need a "childless tax (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=28831)" to prevent demographic theft that takes place through the inaction of lazy.

The comment about life extension (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_extension) I've made above was mostly about cheap organ harvesting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting) from human-animal hybrids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parahuman) (which we can genetically engineer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_engineering) to be incapable of reason, and thus the issue of their "rights" should not come up).

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith) on April 22, 2009, 02:45:48 AM

Quote from: Alex Libman on April 22, 2009, 01:19:29 AM

Not really, all human cloning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_cloning) does is improve the genetic quality of the babies, someone still has to do the dirty work and raise them for ~18 years, which is very expensive.  And not everyone is willing to pull their demographic weight - that's why we need a "childless tax (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=28831)" to prevent demographic theft that takes place through the inaction of lazy.

The comment about life extension (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_extension) I've made above was mostly about cheap organ harvesting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting) from human-animal hybrids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parahuman) (which we can genetically engineer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_engineering) to be incapable of reason, and thus the issue of their "rights" should not come up).

Ever read Brave New World?  Why not just have human farms like in that book?  We could have a working class in 15 years no problem!

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: atomiccat on April 22, 2009, 02:53:11 AM

Libman for slavery!   :shock:

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: TimeLady Victorious on April 22, 2009, 07:55:50 AM

So if I grow a clone of myself and have sex with it, is it incest or masturbation?

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: Alex Libman on April 22, 2009, 08:42:09 AM

Quote from: Demosthenes on April 22, 2009, 02:45:48 AM [...] Why not just have human farms like in that book?  [...]

Yes, but human beings have rights!  Huxley's dystopia is exactly what my ideas are trying to avoid.

Even parahumans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parahuman) can have full human rights if they can pass certain tests to show that they can reason, pull their own weight economically, and respect the rights of others - no different than humans born with mental disabilities.  Entities that have a certain percentage of human DNA but cannot sufficiently reason still have the right to life, but not to liberty or property - same as unemancipated children.

Quote from: atomiccat on April 22, 2009, 02:53:11 AM Libman for slavery!   :shock:

No, Libman AGAINST slavery.

Your reading comprehension skills need a lot of work.

Quote from: Queen of the Harpies on April 22, 2009, 07:55:50 AM So if I grow a clone of myself and have sex with it, is it incest or masturbation?

It is incest, but I obviously don't think there should be any laws against that.  Rape is still rape, of course.  And people who engage in incest probably deserve to be ostracized - your call.

No one would call identical twins having sex "masturbation", and this is different only because your clone would be much younger than yourself.  It is still an individual with complete human rights, obviously. 

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: slave_3646 on April 22, 2009, 07:30:28 PM

I can't help but think of the movie Duplicity. you know, the one where each successive clone of the original becomes dumber, and dumber, and dumberer, and dumberererer, and so on, and so on, and so on...

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: Alex Libman on April 22, 2009, 07:43:25 PM

Comparing genetics to a xerox machine might make good comedy, but it just isn't accurate.

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: Ghost of Alex Libman on April 26, 2009, 06:18:44 PM

From Daily Mail UK -- Storm over embryo "bank" which could be used as a body repair kit (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1173525/Storm-embryo-bank-used-body-repair-kit.html) --

Quote

Couples could be allowed to store embryos in order to use them to create new body parts or cure diseases.

[British] Government legal and ethical experts are to discuss whether families can "bank" embryos not just for procreation but also for use by doctors to create personalised treatments for parents and their children.

Now, embryos -- the first stage of life after an egg has been successfully fertilised -- can be stored for up to five years but only for procreation.

But a huge ethical debate is set to erupt as the Government's fertility watchdog, the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Fertilisation_and_Embryology_Authority) (HFEA), moves closer to endorsing new developments in medical science.

It will debate whether embryos could be stored to harvest important stem cells that have the ability to turn into any tissue type in the body.

Research on using the cells is still in its infancy, but it is thought that within ten years it could lead to cures for degenerative conditions such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's and some forms of cancer.

The embryos could also be used to grow new organs and bodily "spare parts".

Scientists have already successfully transplanted a windpipe grown from a patient's own adult stem cells.

However, storing embryonic cells is controversial as they allow the creation of embryos for a purpose other than new life. It means couples could have IVF simply to create a body-repair kit.

A US company is already offering this service, which it has described as an "investment" for the future.

The HFEA will discuss the issue in July - and if it rules in favour of the proposals, they will automatically become policy.

Paul Tully, general secretary of the Society for the Protection of Unborn Children, said: "These proposals widen the scope for abuse of embryos. Commercial companies will inevitably seek to exploit people’s fears about degenerative diseases.

"This is about the commercialisation of human embryos, which is dehumanising."

In October, a change to the law will allow embryos to be stored for 55 years, rather than five, meaning long-term banking could easily become a reality.

The HFEA has already ruled in favour of "saviour siblings" - babies created using IVF and screened as embryos to be a tissue match for an existing child with a serious condition.

Once the baby is born, stem cells are taken from the umbilical cord blood and used as a cure, which experts say means the ethical leap for embryos to be used as a repair kit has already been made.

Several "saviour siblings" have now been born, including Jamie Whitaker, of Derbyshire, whose donation of cord blood stem cells cured his brother Charlie of a rare form of anaemia.

Dr Richard Kennedy, of the British Fertility Society, said stem-cell technologies would improve over the next decade.

"That might well open the door to this scenario which the HFEA is quite rightly discussing as an ethical issue."

Josephine Quintavalle, of campaign group Comment on Reproductive Ethics, said: "It is sadly almost inevitable that bespoke embryonic stem cells created from frozen surplus will become the latest must-have healthcare accessory."

An HFEA spokesperson said: "Horizon scanning is part of our regulatory role. We look at developing technologies which may impact on the work we do."

People who stand in the way of medical progress can cause billions of people to die earlier than they otherwise might have.  Whatever we did to the Nazi war criminals, we should do to those pro-death zealots a thousand times worse!  :x

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: libertylover on April 26, 2009, 07:24:13 PM

I wish I could clone myself then raise my younger self.   I would encourage the clone me to pursue art.  I would be ready to treat the health problems early on so no damage is done.  I wouldn't waste my clones time with music and dance lessons because I would already know clone me is tone deaf.  Sadly I don't have the money to pursue such a fantasy.  Maybe clone me would be taller with a healthier diet.  I would already know that clone me is lactose intolerant.  I could see some advantages to this clone thing.  It would be a great way to end the nature vs nurture debate.   

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: Ghost of Alex Libman on April 28, 2009, 03:16:40 PM

Sure beats traditional parenting, where you have to share half the genes with some loser, eh?  ;)




Oh, and ...

Quote from: the ghost of Alex Libman on April 28, 2009, 12:30:07 AM ... here's what you append to all your forum posts if you want every person viewing them to hammer maqs.com for ~8MB of bandwidth:  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:twisted:

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: patrickj on April 28, 2009, 03:25:20 PM

If mutant clone armys rule the earth in the next 70 years, libman is going to the stake. 

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: Jetfire on April 28, 2009, 03:25:43 PM

(http://www.vote4rewards.com/polls/files/cloning.jpg)

Cloning the best race for a better tomorrow.

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: Ghost of Alex Libman on April 28, 2009, 03:36:37 PM

I'm sure you mean stake.  Lovely.  :P

And the best race being...  human.

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: Jetfire on April 28, 2009, 03:46:36 PM

I'm talking about genetically modified computer enhanced super humans. Trained to kill all lesser mortals off of this world. This isn't a conspiracy theory! It's the day of reckoning! so says my lord and savior jebus.

Title: Re: Yes To Human Cloning!
Post by: Ghost of Alex Libman on April 28, 2009, 04:00:20 PM

We already have scary jackbooted thugs "trained to kill" those who resist their dominion.  Genetic engineering will give the rest of the population a boost of machismo, thus evening the odds.  It might even make them less stupid, and this less susceptible to government brainwashing.




Oh, and ...

Quote from: the ghost of Alex Libman on April 28, 2009, 12:30:07 AM ... here's what you append to all your forum posts if you want every person viewing them to hammer maqs.com for ~8MB of bandwidth:  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