The Free Talk Live BBS
Free Talk Live => General => Topic started by: kingjoedirt23 on August 26, 2010, 06:21:31 PM
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I asked a liberal type why we needed a federal government and he said the states would be taken over one by one without the U.S. being one nation. Why wouldn't this happen?
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"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."
It has been declared this attribution is "unsubstantiated and almost certainly bogus, even though it has been repeated thousands of times in various Internet postings. There is no record of the commander in chief of Japan’s wartime fleet ever saying it."
However, that doesn't make it wrong.
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Your premise is awfully vague.
What are you calling a "state"?
Taken over by whom?
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OK, his response was "You know those guys in England? They hate us, and without a Federal institution they would take over the u.s one state at a time. There are also militia groups strong enough to destroy a state." I know this is typical American thinking that the whole world is going to attack us without the Federal govment. But in the spirit of pushing him towards liberty and "voluntaryism", what do I say to that.
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OK, his response was "You know those guys in England? They hate us, and without a Federal institution they would take over the u.s one state at a time. There are also militia groups strong enough to destroy a state." I know this is typical American thinking that the whole world is going to attack us without the Federal govment. But in the spirit of pushing him towards liberty and "voluntaryism", what do I say to that.
England? Your friend is odd.
As for real threats, I wouldn't believe the hype about the glorious insurgency you guys would mount. That said if the scenario is just the U.S dissolved into 50 pieces, that doesn't necessarily mean that non-interventionist types are in charge - they would probably come to each others aid in an obvious domino scenario.
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The American Indians never had a government.....and it was the English who invaded. :)
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Is your friend a LaRouchite? They're the only people I'm aware of who are afraid of the British...
There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass. You think occupying Iraq was hard, just try occupying Texas.
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Is your friend a LaRouchite? They're the only people I'm aware of who are afraid of the British...
There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass. You think occupying Iraq was hard, just try occupying Texas.
That's assuming the occupiers are going to be nice about it.
Occupying Iraq is only "difficult" from the perspective of a culture that has very low tolerance for its own casualties and at least some reticence about enemy civilian causalties, trying to enact some fairly ambitious political objectives.
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Unless they're willing to nuke American cities, that's pretty much irrelevant.
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Why would "they" use violence (like nuking cities) when they can simply get the citizenry to sign away everything they own (including the public property) by lending them imaginary money? This is exactly the position we (the whole world really) are currently in, and that wouldn't change a stinkin' bit .
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On the contrary, the hypothetical assumes that it already HAS changed quite a bit. You don't get rid of the Federal government without getting rid of the popular paradigm that permits its existence.
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"So after the turkeys chased him back into his car, he finally made it through the gate. I could hear him scraping the oil pan on the cattle guard all the way up at the house. He had some trouble with that wash I've been meaning to fill in."
"Stop it Bill, you're killing me! :lol: "
"No, I'm serious. So the guy gets out of the car, looks at me over the fence, and then walks up to the house. I don't know how many times he rang the bell before finally wandering over to the fence. And, he just stares at me, like I'm supposed to stop jogging that gelding and run right over to jaw with him.
So, finally he puts his pinky out like this here, see, and says, 'that horse will look right fine with a proper saddle and the young master atop her,' or some crap like that.
And then he says...get this...Lenn, you gotta hear this. He says, 'look here, chap, I've come for the deed and to collect the guns for her majesty. Is the owner about?' No kidding. Just like that."
"So, he hasn't made it back from the blind, yet?"
"Naw. I told him the owner was in that blind up on rattlesnake hill, you know the one we found all the wasps' nests in? I told him the 'owner' was hard of hearing so he needs to knock real loud!"
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Unless they're willing to nuke American cities, that's pretty much irrelevant.
Nothing is stopping anyone from nuking cities now.
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Unless they're willing to nuke American cities, that's pretty much irrelevant.
Nothing is stopping anyone from nuking cities now.
Except self-interest. Which means that to fear a nuclear attack on a free society, one would have to assume a villain who is both completely, psychotically insane and brilliant enough to pull it off. Such people only exist in comic books.
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Unless they're willing to nuke American cities, that's pretty much irrelevant.
Nothing is stopping anyone from nuking cities now.
Except self-interest. Which means that to fear a nuclear attack on a free society, one would have to assume a villain who is both completely, psychotically insane and brilliant enough to pull it off. Such people only exist in comic books.
Unfortunately this isn't true. There are people insane enough to do this, they have proven it, and they have the largest stockpile of Nuclear Weapons in the world.
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0yXafaQ6RDUd4BCbtqRzk3FYwg-EAjcZgrWiiE-hPYS1TROE&t=1&usg=__CmOQ_yBcFX5KbH6oVhfwDNed91w=)(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQpk3UAAZGJWY6_cCE2XL-L8B27W1RjKqT4KUiCmu1VqyCQ6lQ&t=1&usg=__eU02yCfVR2wjrAlEvNbRdbyPBWI=)(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ632BVYLJvvjNJkmq-9xFKpIxzAugjdqDSwD_As5-ZbKt6o1Q&t=1&usg=__1swBP1o0LjvLMVojgYrDKtbPqqM=)
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The Russians would have done it. But probably nothing to fear from anyone else nowadays.
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The Russians would have done it. But probably nothing to fear from anyone else nowadays.
The people who are most likely to pop a nuke in America is our own military/government. They have de-facto complete control over the country, and now all that is required is for them to blow something up to scare the living shit out of the populace (again) thus making "us" beg to be "protected" from whatever boogieman they choose to blame it on by giving up the last vestiges of freedom, and thus complete the total takeover of our once proud and free republic.
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Unfortunately this isn't true. There are people insane enough to do this, they have proven it, and they have the largest stockpile of Nuclear Weapons in the world.
Nuclear weapons have only ever been used when there was no plausible threat of retaliation. And now that MAD is no longer seriously considered as a viable strategy, for some reason both the US and other nuclear powers are disarming. Not just scaling back production, but actually disarming. Fact is, there is no real opportunity for positive gain, either in terms of power or wealth, through a nuclear attack. Even the politicians, dense as they are, are realizing that.
And by the way, if a power capable of a nuclear attack and insane enough to do it really wanted to nuke Americans, it's not like the Federal government would necessarily stop them. Nukes are small, the coast is vast.
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I saw a documentary once where a reporter went to the middle east to see how easy it was to buy a nuke. He found a contract who claimed he had one buried in his mothers back yard. Apparently the guy was telling the truth. His price? 1 million USD. If anyone wanted one, they could get one.
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I saw a documentary once where a reporter went to the middle east to see how easy it was to buy a nuke. He found a contract who claimed he had one buried in his mothers back yard. Apparently the guy was telling the truth. His price? 1 million USD. If anyone wanted one, they could get one.
That is disinformation to create a false impression in peoples heads, thereby making it seem self-evident that "terrorists" are responsible when an American city is nuked, or, that dupes are "caught before they can do it", thus making the Government look like heroes for stopping it and saving us all."Thank you for saving us oh glorious and brave Government!! Please take away any remaining rights we have to make sure this doesn't happen again, and oh, take all of our money too, keeping us safe is VERY expensive!"
If it were that easy to get nukes Israel would be a shiny fucking parking lot dude. Wake the fuck up, we are being HAD.
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Everything's a conspiracy. :roll:
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Everything's a conspiracy. :roll:
Fact : The Media has been saying that it is really easy to get a Blackmarket nuke for about 30 years now.
Fact: Nobody has gotten one.
Fact: The people who benefit from this are the same ones selling the lie.
Figure it out. Or not. If you are not smart enough to connect the dots about how we are being lied to, your opinion really doesn't matter.
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There are people insane enough to do this, they have proven it, and they have the largest stockpile of Nuclear Weapons in the world.
Indeed, they also operate with sovereign immunity and tax funding.
I think we're talking about what happens if those things either went away, or were only exercisable at a much lower level, such as 50 separate polities who couldn't tax each other.
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There are people insane enough to do this, they have proven it, and they have the largest stockpile of Nuclear Weapons in the world.
Indeed, they also operate with sovereign immunity and tax funding.
I think we're talking about what happens if those things either went away, or were only exercisable at a much lower level, such as 50 separate polities who couldn't tax each other.
Right, I was wandering from the thread topic a bit there. Soooo...
In this fantasy- no- federal government scenario, I think I would move back to Wyoming where I spent a couple of summers. They have the most nukes, and any invader would have to plow through tens of millions of pissed off people before they got there, unless of course it was Canada doing the invading. :?
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Everything's a conspiracy. :roll:
Fact : The Media has been saying that it is really easy to get a Blackmarket nuke for about 30 years now.
Fact: Nobody has gotten one.
Fact: The people who benefit from this are the same ones selling the lie.
Figure it out. Or not. If you are not smart enough to connect the dots about how we are being lied to, your opinion really doesn't matter.
This was an independent documentary. The point of it was, anyone can get a nuke but nobody wants one. Also, you have to be able to drop the nuke anyway. It was a very believable video. I wish I could find it again but I cannot as of yet. I've posted some excellent videos on this bbs before, hopefully I can reward you people with this one. To the (FF) library!
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In keeping with the criteria for the 7 Wonders of the Ancient World, nuclear weapons should be the only Wonder of the Modern World. Like pyramids and colossi, nuclear weapons can only be built and maintained through slavery.
Oh, but the pyramids weren't built by slaves, you say? BS, I say. Something paid the bills, and it wasn't the productivity or overwhelming love towards a series of inbred trannys or even the fervor of religion.
Without slaves, you can buy a nuke cheap. Of course you can. The bill for maintaining them in safe (let alone functional) condition is astronomical. It's a buyer's market.
You can bury a nuke in mom's back yard. Insert joke about not loving mom here.
You can dig it back up. I wouldn't recommend it, but you can do whatever you want.
You can load it in the back of a truck and drive it someplace. OK, you can't do that, but you can pay a series of people to do it. When one dies, the next one can take the wheel. Of course, every dead driver raises the going rate for driving your nuke exponentially.
You can park it in the middle of a financial district and pack explosives all around it (because, even if you have a trigger, at this point it ain't gonna do squat) and even detonate the explosives. You can kill scores of people within the blast radius (of the explosives, because you won't get critical mass).
Two weeks later, one or two pumper trucks will hose everything into the sewer and that'll be that.
No slaves, no mushroom cloud.
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The Russians would have done it. But probably nothing to fear from anyone else nowadays.
The people who are most likely to pop a nuke in America is our own military/government. They have de-facto complete control over the country, and now all that is required is for them to blow something up to scare the living shit out of the populace (again) thus making "us" beg to be "protected" from whatever boogieman they choose to blame it on by giving up the last vestiges of freedom, and thus complete the total takeover of our once proud and free republic.
this
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In keeping with the criteria for the 7 Wonders of the Ancient World, nuclear weapons should be the only Wonder of the Modern World. Like pyramids and colossi, nuclear weapons can only be built and maintained through slavery.
Oh, but the pyramids weren't built by slaves, you say? BS, I say. Something paid the bills, and it wasn't the productivity or overwhelming love towards a series of inbred trannys or even the fervor of religion.
Without slaves, you can buy a nuke cheap. Of course you can. The bill for maintaining them in safe (let alone functional) condition is astronomical. It's a buyer's market.
You can bury a nuke in mom's back yard. Insert joke about not loving mom here.
You can dig it back up. I wouldn't recommend it, but you can do whatever you want.
You can load it in the back of a truck and drive it someplace. OK, you can't do that, but you can pay a series of people to do it. When one dies, the next one can take the wheel. Of course, every dead driver raises the going rate for driving your nuke exponentially.
You can park it in the middle of a financial district and pack explosives all around it (because, even if you have a trigger, at this point it ain't gonna do squat) and even detonate the explosives. You can kill scores of people within the blast radius (of the explosives, because you won't get critical mass).
Two weeks later, one or two pumper trucks will hose everything into the sewer and that'll be that.
No slaves, no mushroom cloud.
Nice post.
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Everything's a conspiracy. :roll:
Fact : The Media has been saying that it is really easy to get a Blackmarket nuke for about 30 years now.
Fact: Nobody has gotten one.
Fact: The people who benefit from this are the same ones selling the lie.
Figure it out. Or not. If you are not smart enough to connect the dots about how we are being lied to, your opinion really doesn't matter.
Figure it out. If you're not smart enough to know that evil people do evil things and it's not always a conspiracy, then you're a fucking idiot. Just about every other post you leave implies there's a conspiracy about something or the other.
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Everything's a conspiracy. :roll:
Fact : The Media has been saying that it is really easy to get a Blackmarket nuke for about 30 years now.
Fact: Nobody has gotten one.
Fact: The people who benefit from this are the same ones selling the lie.
Figure it out. Or not. If you are not smart enough to connect the dots about how we are being lied to, your opinion really doesn't matter.
Figure it out. If you're not smart enough to know that evil people do evil things and it's not always a conspiracy, then you're a fucking idiot. Just about every other post you leave implies there's a conspiracy about something or the other.
As far as I know, if "people" do anything it is a conspiracy. Who's the idiot?
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Not until you get to definition #5 on dictionary.com. It usually has connotations of secrecy and ill intent.
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Not until you get to definition #5 on dictionary.com. It usually has connotations of secrecy and ill intent.
So definition #5 isn't valid anymore ? Is this proof that there is a number based conspiracy against the definition of conspiracy? Or, is this a deeper conspiracy against the 5th definition of all words??? Where does it all end?
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The point is that when most people use the word, they mean it in the sense by which most other people understand it. That's sort of the purpose of language, and people who engage in conversation implicitly accept the responsibility to seek to understand what their fellow conversationalists are saying, so long as the latter are not committing errors in their use of language.
For example, when the average person says "conspiracy" they mean "ill-intentioned plans made in secret," not "people doing things together". The latter definition renders the term useless, because it is not distinct from the many other terms descriptive of human interaction.
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Everything's a conspiracy. :roll:
Fact : The Media has been saying that it is really easy to get a Blackmarket nuke for about 30 years now.
Fact: Nobody has gotten one.
Fact: The people who benefit from this are the same ones selling the lie.
Figure it out. Or not. If you are not smart enough to connect the dots about how we are being lied to, your opinion really doesn't matter.
Figure it out. If you're not smart enough to know that evil people do evil things and it's not always a conspiracy, then you're a fucking idiot. Just about every other post you leave implies there's a conspiracy about something or the other.
As far as I know, if "people" do anything it is a conspiracy. Who's the idiot?
You are. If "people" do anything, it's not necessarily a conspiracy unless they...wait for it...wait for it...conspire.
Not until you get to definition #5 on dictionary.com. It usually has connotations of secrecy and ill intent.
So definition #5 isn't valid anymore ? Is this proof that there is a number based conspiracy against the definition of conspiracy? Or, is this a deeper conspiracy against the 5th definition of all words??? Where does it all end?
QED. Everything's a "conspiracy" with you.
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The point is that when most people use the word, they mean it in the sense by which most other people understand it. That's sort of the purpose of language, and people who engage in conversation implicitly accept the responsibility to seek to understand what their fellow conversationalists are saying, so long as the latter are not committing errors in their use of language.
For example, when the average person says "conspiracy" they mean "ill-intentioned plans made in secret," not "people doing things together". The latter definition renders the term useless, because it is not distinct from the many other terms descriptive of human interaction.
Where is your proof? This is obviously a conspiracy theory.
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I interpret the question to mean if the USA wasn't big it would be invaded. There are countries smaller than many of our states. What keeps other countries from invading smaller countries? Why would England invade Maine when Ireland is so much closer and about the same size?
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(http://i38.tinypic.com/14jc84i.jpg)
Good point sir
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Good point sir
You are quite welcome old chap, anytime.
(http://bp1.blogger.com/_cHYeTpsQJ7g/R1BVHYDW5pI/AAAAAAAABKE/PRMibUrlCTg/s1600-R/elephant-size-poop.jpg)
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Why would England invade Maine when Ireland is so much closer and about the same size?
They tried that already.
And, even though they followed Genghis Khan's advice and pretty much genetically replaced the Irish with English, they still couldn't get the population to settle down and admit defeat.
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Why would England invade Maine when Ireland is so much closer and about the same size?
They tried that already.
And, even though they followed Genghis Khan's advice and pretty much genetically replaced the Irish with English, they still couldn't get the population to settle down and admit defeat.
Are you saying the population of Maine would just roll over and play dead?
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Are you saying the population of Maine would just roll over and play dead?
No. I'm saying that, if the spirit of resistance is somehow preserved, a people cannot be conquered. Only killed.
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Are you saying the population of Maine would just roll over and play dead?
No. I'm saying that, if the spirit of resistance is somehow preserved, a people cannot be conquered. Only killed.
Wolverines!
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Are you saying the population of Maine would just roll over and play dead?
No. I'm saying that, if the spirit of resistance is somehow preserved, a people cannot be conquered. Only killed.
Wolverines!
Ha ha, I don't know if it is sad I am old enough to know that reference.
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Are you saying the population of Maine would just roll over and play dead?
No. I'm saying that, if the spirit of resistance is somehow preserved, a people cannot be conquered. Only killed.
Wolverines!
Ha ha, I don't know if it is sad I am old enough to know that reference.
Meh, your age doesnt show on a great movie like that one. Wolverines!
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Meh, your age doesnt show on a great movie like that one. Wolverines!
Could someone cite the movie so I can look it up on NetFlix?
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Why would England invade Maine when Ireland is so much closer and about the same size?
They tried that already.
And, even though they followed Genghis Khan's advice and pretty much genetically replaced the Irish with English, they still couldn't get the population to settle down and admit defeat.
Are you saying the population of Maine would just roll over and play dead?
I thought they already were playing dead. Have you ever been there? Dreadful place.
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Meh, your age doesnt show on a great movie like that one. Wolverines!
Could someone cite the movie so I can look it up on NetFlix?
Are you being serious? O_O
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(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRBHThaRkPHlhY2cOhUl216S_sHPPNYOak_wSpXK1kdkJqZvMo&t=1&usg=__sIrtzkOoCD_OdkVkZdu_nYWVt00=)
Wolverines!
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(http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/red-dawn-1984-207x300.jpg)
Movie was made 26 years ago. On the tail end of the cold war a few years before the fall of the Berlin Wall.
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So the debate is pretty much settled right, America wouldn't be invaded without the Fed Gov since we would go Wolverine on their ass, but more like a first world version of what is going on in Iraq. We would form voluntary militias as needed similar to the anarchists in the Spanish Civil War, use our information networks and education to spread successful tactics and movements, and otherwise perform such acts of rebellion that any invaders couldn't hope to occupy for long. Finally with such simple constructs as the 4winds shotgun and the fact that we have more guns than people means that literally every person can be considered armed.
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if there was just 50 separate states it would be easy, unless they allied made a confederation instead of federation it would be almost like having the federal government only you would need to take over 50 states instead of just D.C. and the few states whom would break of and defend themselves if D.C. was taken
And if there were no states and most people were voluntarists they would have to Destroy every single city and kill everyone and/or "re educate" the populace, And the enemy would have to move into theses areas with massive numbers to maintain control due to there being no centralized defense center. otherwise it would be like a un-ending iraq situation with groups of freedom fighters launching attacks on the enemies, with weapons more powerful then IED's especially if the enemy doesn't have overwhelming numbers or arms to maintain a Very strong hold of the area.
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Oh! _Red Dawn_. Got it, thanks.
I was living in Grand Junction, CO, when it was filmed, and was so glad to leave that I didn't want to be reminded by seeing the movie. I did see the scene of their raiding the gun shop early on, which was cool.
Thanks again.
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Similar to the scene in Dawn of The Dead where they were couped up in that shopping mall and had something like 200 different guns and buttloads of ammo to choose from in the gun store. Awesome !!! How often do you see gun stores in shopping malls nowadays?
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Similar to the scene in Dawn of The Dead where they were couped up in that shopping mall and had something like 200 different guns and buttloads of ammo to choose from in the gun store. Awesome !!! How often do you see gun stores in shopping malls nowadays?
When I lived in denver a few years back, there was a store in the mall that sold guns.
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Similar to the scene in Dawn of The Dead where they were couped up in that shopping mall and had something like 200 different guns and buttloads of ammo to choose from in the gun store. Awesome !!! How often do you see gun stores in shopping malls nowadays?
About as often as you see shotguns in schools. When I went to school you could bring weapons (unloaded) and put them in your locker. There was a skeet class/club and a local gun club held "hunter's safety" (gun training required to get a hunting license in MI)classes on the schoolgrounds which are around a square mile I think.
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Similar to the scene in Dawn of The Dead where they were couped up in that shopping mall and had something like 200 different guns and buttloads of ammo to choose from in the gun store. Awesome !!! How often do you see gun stores in shopping malls nowadays?
About as often as you see shotguns in schools. When I went to school you could bring weapons (unloaded) and put them in your locker. There was a skeet class/club and a local gun club held "hunter's safety" (gun training required to get a hunting license in MI)classes on the schoolgrounds which are around a square mile I think.
We had skeet shooting as well but you still had to leave your shotgun out in the car. You would have to take it out to walk onto the practice field. You were not allowed to bring the gun into any of the school buildings. That became a rule after some guy walked into a high school and shot his girlfriend with a shotgun. She didn't die and he ended up in prison or a mental hospital. In a way I never wanted to drag my shotgun into school then walk it all the way out to the practice field. The car parking was much closer to the field.
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Similar to the scene in Dawn of The Dead where they were couped up in that shopping mall and had something like 200 different guns and buttloads of ammo to choose from in the gun store. Awesome !!! How often do you see gun stores in shopping malls nowadays?
About as often as you see shotguns in schools. When I went to school you could bring weapons (unloaded) and put them in your locker. There was a skeet class/club and a local gun club held "hunter's safety" (gun training required to get a hunting license in MI)classes on the schoolgrounds which are around a square mile I think.
I took hunters safety at my school too and we were allowed guns. It was only in the agricultural room and workshop/outside area.
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if there was just 50 separate states it would be easy, unless they allied made a confederation instead of federation it would be almost like having the federal government only you would need to take over 50 states instead of just D.C. and the few states whom would break of and defend themselves if D.C. was taken
And if there were no states and most people were voluntarists they would have to Destroy every single city and kill everyone and/or "re educate" the populace, And the enemy would have to move into theses areas with massive numbers to maintain control due to there being no centralized defense center. otherwise it would be like a un-ending iraq situation with groups of freedom fighters launching attacks on the enemies, with weapons more powerful then IED's especially if the enemy doesn't have overwhelming numbers or arms to maintain a Very strong hold of the area.
Yes, but I think it would also be more likely that certain spots would be invaded by war mongering "Mongolians" a few times before they were pushed out.