What kind of motorcycle should I get?

[alaric89]

My son is 10. The bike is the same bike my daughter learned on, a 2003 TTR-90 I bought new. Glad I did, it was the last model with kickstart. Note it still looks brand new despite being crashed many times. Part of the point of buying a child a vehicle is that they learn the importance of maintenance and upkeep.

[Ecolitan]

 But the truth is these bikes are full on RACE bikes.  There's a reason they are marketed as "Race Ready" and they have race bike maintenance.  

That's no good to me   I really wanted it to be practical AND awesome.  Maybe the right DRZ will come around.

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

 But the truth is these bikes are full on RACE bikes.  There's a reason they are marketed as "Race Ready" and they have race bike maintenance.  

That's no good to me   I really wanted it to be practical AND awesome.  Maybe the right DRZ will come around.

sounds like a drz or an xr are more up your alley then, although the ktm RFS motor is likely the most reliable "RACE" motor when compared to the rest of the japanese  450s... News is that while the drz will last longer than the ktm you won't be able to put a hundred thousand  onone either...nit anywhere close.  For the most reliable dual sport youre gonna want am xr 650 or a dr 650, and those are heavy bikes compared to the ktm.

[alaric89]

BMW dual purpose bikes are very comfortable (relatively) on the road.

[Ecolitan]

Even the gs650 is a little heavy.  I don't want a dual sport so much as a quick light commuter that sits tall, gets over 50 mpg can cruise 80 for twenty minutes and wheelies through more gears than not.  If I can switch the tires out and go play in the dirt that's a nice bonus but I really want to stay under 500cc for that.

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Even the gs650 is a little heavy.  I don't want a dual sport so much as a quick light commuter that sits tall, gets over 50 mpg can cruise 80 for twenty minutes and wheelies through more gears than not.  If I can switch the tires out and go play in the dirt that's a nice bonus but I really want to stay under 500cc for that.

unfortunately there's not much options then, pretty much just the xr 650, which is an excellent bike.

[alaric89]

Maybe you should kick it old school. They had fun reliable enduros figured out just fine in the late 70's early 80's.


While I was looking for that photo, damned if I didn't find the same model bike my parents gave me for Christmas in 1979 for sale. Mine didn't have lights and gauges though.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQclk_rvr_idZ249021589389QQitemZ220816624503#v4-40

Here is a kick ass old bike websight.
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/motorcycles/overview

[alaric89]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq-Xv6FXEmg[/youtube]

[Ecolitan]

First.  I had a cruiser for a couple seasons a decade ago.  I just got on and rode, had no clue how to ride a motorcycle.  Have a little time on dirt bikes too.  Took Trillian for a ride on a borrowed Vulcan (after it had been rebuilt after I totaled it while incredibly drunk, yep, he put me right back on it soon as his wife wasn't looking.)  and next thing I knew She bought the GS500 and Joel told her to get some gear and buy a book, changed my life, thanks Joel.

So, have I reached the mechanical limits of this GS500 or am I a squid noob who's doing it all wrong?

I can put a knee down on the ninja now.  By that I mean in a tight circle in a parking lot both left and right side, smoothly, competently and at will.  Haven't had the facilities to do it safely any other way.

I can come nowhere friggin close on the GS. I lose traction first.  With my 140 rear tire the front slides out on me before I lose the rear.  With my new 130 rear which is the OEM size (both Pirelli Sport Demons)  I run out of rear tire so they tend to let loose together, front and back unless I'm on the throttle enough to slide the back out intentionally, thus turning the front away from the turn and keeping it on good rubber.  In a 'properly executed corner' I run out of traction on both tires before I run out of balls.  

Front is an OEM BT45.  I got a larger one with the bike but the guy at the dealership refused to mount it, said it would rub on the fender, the previous owner said he knew what he was doing when he ordered the tire.  But when I got the bike I put a 140/80 rear on and a stock front.  Recently I replaced the rear with the 130/70 (oem size) rear and now I powerslide more easily with less lean angle.

They say oversized tires mess up the handling but I don't see getting more lean angle w/o more rubber front AND back.  Especially front.  I don't think I'm leaning it over that far.  Nowhere close to what I do easily on the Ninja.  The ninja has a huge (for it) 150/70 on the rear cuz it was in stock and she likes a fat tire anyway for looks.  Even with my knee down it has big chicken strips, it looks cartoonish the way it bulges out of that narrow rim.  Haven't noticed any loss in flickability but you could put Goodyears on that thing and I think it would pirouette like a ballerina.

I'm due to mount that front that came with the bike and see for myself if it fits (happy to notch the fender if I have to.  Leaving me with a big fat front and an oem rear which I think will do me no good whatsoever till I burn up the rear and put another bigger on the back (they're not selling the sport demon in 140 now)    Problem is I feel tons better sliding on the 140 than the 130.  It's amazing what 10mm will do.

Eventually...  I'll end up with an oversize front AND an oversize rear(wish I hadn't just got that 130 rear, I believed them about better handling on a stock tire size) and that should buy me more lean angle no?  If I do that am I exceeding the mechanical limits of the bike and asking for trouble?  Should I just get a more capable bike?  I feel good about my natural abilities but I haven't gone out and practiced all that much apart from regular travel but it's hard for me to accept that I can outride that bike already.  I really like it's low maintenance, dependability, fuel economy etc.  I don't necessarily want to replace it unless I've truly outgrown it.

I also put progressive fork springs in it.  Rear shock is stock.  I know you can put a GSXR front end and Works shock on it and that's what people who race them do (not a bad idea for sport commuting as insurance is CHEAP on this thing).  Am I already there or did I miss something?  I've dissected the Twist of the Wrist II and Ride like a Pro DVDs and Proficient Motorcycling.    Ordered Total Control and Twist of the Wrist II paperbacks from Amazon.Freetalklive.com this morning.

All the experts say don't put fatter tires on.  None of those resources address my problem.

[Fred]

I say....Go for the fat tires!  You'll get better handling - maybe you can even try your parking lot leans at 65 on the freeway -

Plus, Trillian is right - they look damn good!

[Ecolitan]

I hit 65 while standing it back up coming out of a cloverleaf.

Yeah, I need the fat tires but I'm wondering if they should be on another bike.  The GS500 has limits, it is not a supersport.  It IS capable of more than most riders ever do... that's what they say.  The 140 is really pushing the limits of chain rubbing (it doesn't).

Never will it achieve extreme lean angles at freeway speeds.  Doesn't have the front-end for it.  That's why the GSXR front ends they put on them.

[Ecolitan]

Thanks Eco....Did you ever ride a Harley?

I didn't have any idea how to ride my cruiser but I cursed it every single day for it's lack of lean angle.

I like to borrow the 900 Vulcan.  It is super stable all the way to it's maximum lean angle at any speed.  Surprisingly flickable.  It's sufficient for spirited commuting.   I've sat on a Nightster and started it.  Immediately knew what I needed to know.  Trillian won't ride it and her daughter won't go w/in 20 ft of it.

Also, no way I can get a Harley with 7800 miles on it for 1500 bucks nor will it get 54 mpg and insure for 100 bucks a year.

When I can have 3 bikes one of them might be a Nightrod.

[Fred]

No, have you ever gone to a dealer and test rode something like a Wide Glide?

[Ecolitan]

No. 

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

First.  I had a cruiser for a couple seasons a decade ago.  I just got on and rode, had no clue how to ride a motorcycle.  Have a little time on dirt bikes too.  Took Trillian for a ride on a borrowed Vulcan (after it had been rebuilt after I totaled it while incredibly drunk, yep, he put me right back on it soon as his wife wasn't looking.)  and next thing I knew She bought the GS500 and Joel told her to get some gear and buy a book, changed my life, thanks Joel.

So, have I reached the mechanical limits of this GS500 or am I a squid noob who's doing it all wrong?

I can put a knee down on the ninja now.  By that I mean in a tight circle in a parking lot both left and right side, smoothly, competently and at will.  Haven't had the facilities to do it safely any other way.

I can come nowhere friggin close on the GS. I lose traction first.  With my 140 rear tire the front slides out on me before I lose the rear.  With my new 130 rear which is the OEM size (both Pirelli Sport Demons)  I run out of rear tire so they tend to let loose together, front and back unless I'm on the throttle enough to slide the back out intentionally, thus turning the front away from the turn and keeping it on good rubber.  In a 'properly executed corner' I run out of traction on both tires before I run out of balls.  

Front is an OEM BT45.  I got a larger one with the bike but the guy at the dealership refused to mount it, said it would rub on the fender, the previous owner said he knew what he was doing when he ordered the tire.  But when I got the bike I put a 140/80 rear on and a stock front.  Recently I replaced the rear with the 130/70 (oem size) rear and now I powerslide more easily with less lean angle.

They say oversized tires mess up the handling but I don't see getting more lean angle w/o more rubber front AND back.  Especially front.  I don't think I'm leaning it over that far.  Nowhere close to what I do easily on the Ninja.  The ninja has a huge (for it) 150/70 on the rear cuz it was in stock and she likes a fat tire anyway for looks.  Even with my knee down it has big chicken strips, it looks cartoonish the way it bulges out of that narrow rim.  Haven't noticed any loss in flickability but you could put Goodyears on that thing and I think it would pirouette like a ballerina.

I'm due to mount that front that came with the bike and see for myself if it fits (happy to notch the fender if I have to.  Leaving me with a big fat front and an oem rear which I think will do me no good whatsoever till I burn up the rear and put another bigger on the back (they're not selling the sport demon in 140 now)    Problem is I feel tons better sliding on the 140 than the 130.  It's amazing what 10mm will do.

Eventually...  I'll end up with an oversize front AND an oversize rear(wish I hadn't just got that 130 rear, I believed them about better handling on a stock tire size) and that should buy me more lean angle no?  If I do that am I exceeding the mechanical limits of the bike and asking for trouble?  Should I just get a more capable bike?  I feel good about my natural abilities but I haven't gone out and practiced all that much apart from regular travel but it's hard for me to accept that I can outride that bike already.  I really like it's low maintenance, dependability, fuel economy etc.  I don't necessarily want to replace it unless I've truly outgrown it.

I also put progressive fork springs in it.  Rear shock is stock.  I know you can put a GSXR front end and Works shock on it and that's what people who race them do (not a bad idea for sport commuting as insurance is CHEAP on this thing).  Am I already there or did I miss something?  I've dissected the Twist of the Wrist II and Ride like a Pro DVDs and Proficient Motorcycling.    Ordered Total Control and Twist of the Wrist II paperbacks from Amazon.Freetalklive.com this morning.

All the experts say don't put fatter tires on.  None of those resources address my problem.

No offense, but I highly doubt you're skills are past the limits of the GS500.  I really highly doubt it.  If you're front end is washing on asphalt it's likely due to rider error first, crappy tires second, and bad suspension third.  

1st is rider error, you need to get farther forward over the front of the bike.  The more weight you put on the front end, the more traction you will get on the front tire.  You should not be touching the brakes as you go through a turn, unless you are at a very high level.  Trail braking is a very advanced skill on street bikes.  

The Bt45 is a crappy bias ply tire.  I've tried it on my bike before and hated it.  It only washed on me once though.  You want to put sticky radial tires on the bike for more traction and quicker turn in response.  The heavy bt45 has bad turn in, moderate stickiness and lacks the pliability of a radial tire.  I am much happier with my Avon Storm 2 ST Ultra tri-compound radial tire.  The center is super hard for long lasting slab riding, and the sides are super sticky for the twisties when you get down in the corners.  It is a radial tire and has great turn in response.  There are even sportier tires out there that will give you better traction or even better turn in, but I'm happy with this one as it gives me the best combination of features and fits on the rims I have right now.

First with regards to suspension, you should make sure that the shock and forks are setup correctly for your weight.  Make sure that the sag is correct both on the forks and the rear shock, but especially on the rear shock.  Fork sag, while important is less crucial than sag on the rear shock.  If there are any adjustments available on your forks or shocks make sure you make them optimal for you and your riding style.  But first set the sag correctly.  The Progressive springs in the correct weight are not a bad idea, but I prefer straight springs on street bikes as they will resist pogo-ing and brake dive more.  The problem with the progressives are that the light weight in the beginning, while giving a smoother ride for straight line riding, will dive faster under braking.  A straight spring that is one step heavier than the calculator indicates for your bike + weight will offer much better resistance towards brake dive and wallowing and pogoing.   Adding a few extra cc's of heavier weight oil to your forks will further improve this type of performance, but will make your ride a bit more jittery and the bumps a bit more pronounced.  The best solution is to throw on some modern upside down cartridge forks.  If you want to increase your turn in response, get triple clamps for the forks you want that have less rake.  The drawback is less stability however.  Upside down cartridge forks will be a huge improvement for any bike that has traditional open chamber forks.  If you do eventually decide to throw on cartridge forks, you're going to find out real fast that your rear end now sucks.  Swap your forks before you decide to swap your rear shock though because you need to feel the difference personally and updating your forks will yield far more improvement than updating your rear shock.

What you should work on is making sure that you are in fact riding with good form and getting over the front end before spending a bunch of money on parts that will not make you any faster.  Riding is 90% rider 10% machine.  To be brutally honest I really doubt that you are already past the limits of your bike.  It took me at least a couple years of constant riding every day + weekend high speed riding to feel like I was near the limits of my own street machine.  It is an older bike with old technology and I currently ride with the fastest riders in my sport bike club every time.  I'm faster than the vast majority of guys on much higher tech, newer, lighter bikes in my club, and I know that even I can increase my speed with more practice without changing my bike or getting a new one.  And my bike is heavier and lower tech than your GS500.

And BTW, I think you should stop being an asshole to everybody, the only reason I'm responding is because I love motorcycles so much and hope to inspire others into riding and hope to spread what knowledge I have of the sport.