What is a woman's role today?

[CaL DaVe]

I was talking with my wife about this very topic about a month ago and I found this  ( http://artofmanliness.com/2009/12/20/what-can-manly-men-expect-of-women/ ) posting today that really summed up the point I was trying to make.

I'm interested in people's thoughts.

1939 Marital Rating Scale:



After having a good laugh, what Kate and I both noticed after reading through these charts was that while we could imagine a modern day woman expecting her husband to live up to most of the standards on the Husband’s Chart, if a man expected a woman to adhere to the Wife’s Chart, he’d probably be met with the look of death.

...

But these days a new double standard has emerged where it’s okay to celebrate men manning up, but telling women they need to recover some of their femininity is offensive. To wit:

A woman telling a man to stop looking like a slob and dress up. Awesome!

A man telling a woman to stop looking like a slob and take care of herself. Sexist!

Saying that men should stop hooking up with women. Awesome!

Saying that women should stop sleeping around. Sexist!

Saying that men should get off the couch and go to work. Awesome!

Saying that a woman should be nurturing with kids. Sexist!

Saying that men should take the initiative in relationships. Awesome!

Saying that a woman should let the man lead (ever!). Sexist!

Full posting:
http://artofmanliness.com/2009/12/20/what-can-manly-men-expect-of-women/

[davann]

I've heard of these charts. They are from the 50's, no?

While these are clearly out of date it might not be a bad idea to list out the pros and cons of a future mate. A generic chart would not do the job though.

For me a woman's pros would be:

Is able and willing to cook and clean. Amount of responsibility in this area would be logically determined by career work load of each member of partnership with the one with the lightest responsibility at work having the most at home.

Willing to explore different sexual possibilities and not be burdened with a puritan sense of sex = dirty.

Takes care of physical appearance.

Is willing to admit when wrong.

Willingness to support my wild ideas. Give constructive criticism in such a way as to not bruise my girlishly delicate ego.

Takes steps to continue learning all through life.

Ability to compromise in all aspects of the relationship.

[Laetitia]

Considering I spent the day cleaning house & baking, managing children. I'm wearing slacks & heels, my favorite cheery vintage apron and have my hair pinned up.
Am almost finished cooking dinner (from scratch), while Dad is taking a power nap...
I chuckled at his sharing of amusing moments from cubicles, then had conversation about a Peter Schiff interview he'd listened to.

Damn!
<----- Fails at being "proper" wife

I don't wear make-up, so look plain.
Often use hubby's calves to warm my icy toes.
Frequently cook/eat breakfast in my PJs.
I don't take the children to church.
Have never and will never darn a sock.

[hellbilly]

Seems more to me that this is about expectations rather than roles. I don't have a set of expectations for a mate beyond mutual respect, and haven't enjoyed relationships where expectations were placed on me.

Or maybe I'm missin' something, I dunno.

I don't see many opportunities that women are excluded from anymore so it seems that options are wide open for anyone who pursues them. Whenever I hear about women not feeling that they're treated fairly, it's often in comparison to another woman's situation rather than what they personally feel is fair. Seems to be a competitive situation (which has traditionally been viewed as masculine).

[Cognitive Dissident]

WAT

[CaL DaVe]

By no means do I expect anyone, male or female, to adhere to the charts I posted above.

Judging by the comments I feel the need to have to explain what my wife and I were discussing. ( BTW, it was not a fight and I already know some dip shit will say something like “drr time for a new wife drrr”  )

Aaanyway, I noticed that there are certain things that my wife will NOT do around the house, such as take out the trash, cut the lawn, pick up after the dogs, check/change the oil in her car, etc. Which I have no problem with. However, after 10 years of being together and 4 years of marriage, I just noticed that there isn't anything in the house I get a free pass on. I cook often, clean, and share ALL  the household responsibilities with my lovely wife.  In our house, all the traditional female roles that women used to fill are BOTH our responsibilities. However, most “manly” responsibilities are filled by me alone and it is expected, by both of us, that I get them done.

I'm not complaining, I actually don't mind having a role as a man. Much like the article I posted, I find it interesting that if I were to propose a role or expect her to be responsible for something “womanly” I would get that killer look.

I think this will change once we have our baby(since I can't breast feed), but the situation that feminism created is an interesting one.  It is one in which the male gender role still exists, but a woman's gender role is nonexistent.

[davann]

but the situation that feminism created is an interesting one.  It is one in which the male gender role still exists, but a woman's gender role is nonexistent.

I agree completely. But look at it this way, they lost something. It is us invading their area while our own tradional position remains safely protected. Again, it is the males that have out maneuvered the females. And they still think they are secretly in charge. Silly silly women. Conquering is what we do.

[Diogenes The Cynic]

By no means do I expect anyone, male or female, to adhere to the charts I posted above.

Judging by the comments I feel the need to have to explain what my wife and I were discussing. ( BTW, it was not a fight and I already know some dip shit will say something like “drr time for a new wife drrr”  )

Aaanyway, I noticed that there are certain things that my wife will NOT do around the house, such as take out the trash, cut the lawn, pick up after the dogs, check/change the oil in her car, etc. Which I have no problem with. However, after 10 years of being together and 4 years of marriage, I just noticed that there isn't anything in the house I get a free pass on. I cook often, clean, and share ALL  the household responsibilities with my lovely wife.  In our house, all the traditional female roles that women used to fill are BOTH our responsibilities. However, most “manly” responsibilities are filled by me alone and it is expected, by both of us, that I get them done.

I'm not complaining, I actually don't mind having a role as a man. Much like the article I posted, I find it interesting that if I were to propose a role or expect her to be responsible for something “womanly” I would get that killer look.

I think this will change once we have our baby(since I can't breast feed), but the situation that feminism created is an interesting one.  It is one in which the male gender role still exists, but a woman's gender role is nonexistent.

You're basically right. Women have redefined themselves so that if they want, they could either work, or stay at home. Men have done no such thing, and most of us, and the womenfolk still hold us to the dehumanizing standards of the fifties where were basically ATM's to our families. For the mold of Get married-Must work to break, men have to redifine themselves.

[Laetitia]

By no means do I expect anyone, male or female, to adhere to the charts I posted above.

Judging by the comments I feel the need to have to explain what my wife and I were discussing. ( BTW, it was not a fight and I already know some dip shit will say something like “drr time for a new wife drrr”  )

Aaanyway, I noticed that there are certain things that my wife will NOT do around the house, such as take out the trash, cut the lawn, pick up after the dogs, check/change the oil in her car, etc. Which I have no problem with. However, after 10 years of being together and 4 years of marriage, I just noticed that there isn't anything in the house I get a free pass on. I cook often, clean, and share ALL  the household responsibilities with my lovely wife.  In our house, all the traditional female roles that women used to fill are BOTH our responsibilities. However, most “manly” responsibilities are filled by me alone and it is expected, by both of us, that I get them done.

I'm not complaining, I actually don't mind having a role as a man. Much like the article I posted, I find it interesting that if I were to propose a role or expect her to be responsible for something “womanly” I would get that killer look.

I think this will change once we have our baby(since I can't breast feed), but the situation that feminism created is an interesting one.  It is one in which the male gender role still exists, but a woman's gender role is nonexistent.

It's a matter of perspective, I'm sure. I take care of the majority of household things, but don't generally take out trash or mow lawn... so when I do, it stands out to as "Ugh, I work too, plus I have to do all the traditionally female chores, most of the parent stuff... AND now this?!"

[Bill Brasky]

The only kind of woman I'm willing to pour my efforts into is one who doesn't need it. 

[brerrabbit]

I like that wearing red nail polish was a detriment. Those dirty red-nailed whores.

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

The only kind of woman I'm willing to pour my efforts into is one who doesn't need it. 

I'm with you here.  I see a lot of these girls in college that are clearly only there to find a soon to be rich guy to milk for the rest of their lives.  I want a girl who can take care of herself and the family if I was to die but who is also willing to assume many of the more traditional domestic roles as well.  It's tough to find a gal like that but I think I've been able to.

[Bill Brasky]

The only kind of woman I'm willing to pour my efforts into is one who doesn't need it. 

I'm with you here.  I see a lot of these girls in college that are clearly only there to find a soon to be rich guy to milk for the rest of their lives.  I want a girl who can take care of herself and the family if I was to die but who is also willing to assume many of the more traditional domestic roles as well.  It's tough to find a gal like that but I think I've been able to.

I don't care much about money, if she's a golddigger I'll ferret her out and she won't last long.  With someone I care about, what's mine is hers anyway, for however long it lasts.  I'm more concerned with the personality behind it, if they piss through hard earned bucks like its nuthing, she's got a fuckin' screw loose and I've had enough of that.  Its disrespectful to the effort required to assemble that comfort padding.  But if a little trinket makes 'em happy, who am I to judge?  I like my trinkets too.

The need I speak of is emotional.  I like people that don't get bored, and have some creative zest.  If they're all dependent on me for input about every fucking little thing, its a burden.  Chicks I like, they've got some spirit.  They don't need all the input, emotionally, logically, or otherwise.  That creativity is the drive behind the chick that will go fuck around with the fusebox when I'm not home, rather than call me and need to be walked through it.  If they can't handle something, fine.  But when I ask if they tried this-n-that, and the answer is no, they didn't even fucking try, and that irritates me. 

Those are the people I don't want to pour my effort into, because its a bottomless fucking hole.  I want them to have their own shit going on, and we can chill and fucking hang out once in a while.  Not some psychic fucking vampire that can't have a brainfart without asking me if I like it.  Or if she's creative in some way like writing or painting, don't be asking me to critique it.  Submit the fucker, show me later.  I think I'd die right on the fuckin floor if my last partner kicked out something and mailed it off, I used to proofread birthday cards to her sister, for fucks sake. 

I'm behind all sorts of 8-balls right now, so its a moot point.  I probably won't be attractive to anyone who fits that description for a while.  But I'll tell ya, if its a choice between vapid now or the real deal somewhere down the road, I'll fucking wait.   

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

The only kind of woman I'm willing to pour my efforts into is one who doesn't need it. 

I'm with you here.  I see a lot of these girls in college that are clearly only there to find a soon to be rich guy to milk for the rest of their lives.  I want a girl who can take care of herself and the family if I was to die but who is also willing to assume many of the more traditional domestic roles as well.  It's tough to find a gal like that but I think I've been able to.

I don't care much about money, if she's a golddigger I'll ferret her out and she won't last long.  With someone I care about, what's mine is hers anyway, for however long it lasts.  I'm more concerned with the personality behind it, if they piss through hard earned bucks like its nuthing, she's got a fuckin' screw loose and I've had enough of that.  Its disrespectful to the effort required to assemble that comfort padding.  But if a little trinket makes 'em happy, who am I to judge?  I like my trinkets too.

The need I speak of is emotional.  I like people that don't get bored, and have some creative zest.  If they're all dependent on me for input about every fucking little thing, its a burden.  Chicks I like, they've got some spirit.  They don't need all the input, emotionally, logically, or otherwise.  That creativity is the drive behind the chick that will go fuck around with the fusebox when I'm not home, rather than call me and need to be walked through it.  If they can't handle something, fine.  But when I ask if they tried this-n-that, and the answer is no, they didn't even fucking try, and that irritates me. 

Those are the people I don't want to pour my effort into, because its a bottomless fucking hole.  I want them to have their own shit going on, and we can chill and fucking hang out once in a while.  Not some psychic fucking vampire that can't have a brainfart without asking me if I like it.  Or if she's creative in some way like writing or painting, don't be asking me to critique it.  Submit the fucker, show me later.  I think I'd die right on the fuckin floor if my last partner kicked out something and mailed it off, I used to proofread birthday cards to her sister, for fucks sake. 

I'm behind all sorts of 8-balls right now, so its a moot point.  I probably won't be attractive to anyone who fits that description for a while.  But I'll tell ya, if its a choice between vapid now or the real deal somewhere down the road, I'll fucking wait.   

I know what you mean.  The girls that call and ask what you want to do for everything and never have a unique experience of their own to share.  What's weird about my girl is that she seems like that sort of girl that would do that, but if I tell her to come up with fun ideas she'll do that too.  I dig that.  Its hard to find a gal like that nowadays, most of them are so obsessed with their Coach purses and their Feminazi bullshit that they don't realize they are joining a partnership when they date/marry someone.

[Bill Brasky]

Chicks are funny creatures.  I don't dis them for some feminism, they have some shit lined up against them.  Some get WAYYY to carried away with it, and thats just retarded.  Kinda like men who talk shit about being the fuckin man of the house, no different with overly feminista radicals.  So, I guess the balance is probably weird. 

The world takes all kinds.  It needs *gUrlz* too, so feh, whatever.  Let em.  Someone will mack 'em up, and good for them.  They can be amusing when they're flitting all around, doing whatever they do.  Makes my world a brighter place, I guess.  Just don't expect me to fall for it. 

It doesn't require a lot of introspection to discover if you're happy.  The secret is, if you're not, you gotta do something about it.  Sticking it out in a semi-tolerable situation because it seems like the right thing to do is a bad idea.  Things usually don't get better with time.  I wouldn't say *never*, because some old people will tell you it got better and better, but those are rare examples, and probably started out really good to begin with.  If its fucked up, its fucked up. 

So if you're happy, keep her happy.  You gotta do what it takes when its worth doing.  Nothing worth having is effortless.  Some things take way too much fucking effort.  If you can exist somewhere in the middle, you're golden.