Voluntaryists don't vote?

[Tom Foppiano]

I know that Ian doesn't like the terms anarcho-capitalist, libertarian, blah blah blah............and prefers to be called a "voluntaryist." I never looked up the term because I assumed that it had the same definition as the more conventional ones described earlier.

The weird thing is the definitions of "voluntaryist" I found on the internet were very clear in that voluntaryists don't vote. It seemed to be the fundamental difference between voluntaryist and anarcho-capitalist.

So my question is how can people like Ian, who are very strict in their using the proper definitions of words, use the term "voluntaryist" to define themselves when they vote? Are the online definitions that I read incorrect? Anyone use this term to describe yourself and vote at the same time? Dale, how about you? I'm only curious. I have no problem if you use this term and vote, as words change meaning over time.




Relevant Quote from wikipedia " Voluntaryist movements are distinct in their rejection of both electoral politics and initiative violence as means by which to bring about a voluntary society."

Relevant Quote from voluntaryist.com "Voluntaryists are advocates of non-political, non-violent strategies to achieve a free society. We reject electoral politics, in theory and in practice, as incompatible with libertarian principles."

[Turd Ferguson]

Most titles are bullshit.

Theres always going to be at least one thing that seperates any given person from the definition of the word they like to use to describe themselves. If I wanted to, I could register the domain name voluntaryistfacts.com and claim all sorts of stuff about what a voluntaryist TRULY believes in, but would that make it any more valid than anything else? Is there some supreme being, way up on high that came down to earth from voluntaryist.com and banged his gavel, decreeing "I hereby set in stone that the term voluntaryist means X and Y, and all others shall be cast out!!!" I mean really, who defines that stuff? I could easily claim that by voting to abolish all forced government keeps me within the realm of being a true voluntaryist, right? I suppose you could counter-claim that its not truly voluntary because im forcing my "no government" way on people that might want a huge government, assuming my vote wins. See, its all grey area bullshit.

I say just call yourself whatever you feel gives the closest description to your beliefs and requires the least amount of long-winded explanation to make it clear to people what line of thinking you follow. In some circles, I call myself a Libertarian. In others, I call myself an anarchist. Sometimes I say "Im a small government guy....really small government".  Depends who im talking to.

I've never called myself an Anarcho-capitalist though, for the simple reason that very few people even know what the fuck that means. They think of robber-barons or pirates, raping and pillaging the land for their own benefit with no regard for others safety.


People that know me best know im a idontgiveafuckwhatyoudotaryist.

If you meet the stringent requirements to join the club, you can be one too!!

[dalebert]

Did you listen to Wednesday's Flaming Freedom yet, the one right after the NH primary?

[dalebert]

Theres always going to be at least one thing that seperates any given person from the definition of the word they like to use to describe themselves...

<snip>

I say just call yourself whatever you feel gives the closest description to your beliefs and requires the least amount of long-winded explanation to make it clear to people what line of thinking you follow.

I've said as much about calling myself panentheist. My views are fairly complicated and that's just the closest thing to summing it up in one word that I know of, and most of the time I'm not eager to go into a schpeel of the details. I just leave it at that even though any word I use is going to conjure up a slew of inaccurate notions in different people. Christian is probably an even broader term that people use to describe themselves that has an incredible range of meaning to different people.

[SonicThePorcupine]

I'm a voluntaryist and I don't have a problem with voting.

[Turd Ferguson]

Did you listen to Wednesday's Flaming Freedom yet, the one right after the NH primary?

If you're asking me, no, I didnt.

[dalebert]

If you're asking me, no, I didnt.

It was directed at OP, actually. I get the impression he listens to the show sometimes because he comments on it occasionally and I spoke fairly extensively about why I voted in the primary.

[Turd Ferguson]

If you're asking me, no, I didnt.

It was directed at OP, actually. I get the impression he listens to the show sometimes because he comments on it occasionally and I spoke fairly extensively about why I voted in the primary.

Did you vote for RP or Vermin Supreme?

[dalebert]

Did you vote for RP or Vermin Supreme?

Santorum

[SonicThePorcupine]

Santorum

[Turd Ferguson]

Did you vote for RP or Vermin Supreme?

Santorum

 Atta boy!!

[anarchir]

I'm a voluntaryist, and that's what I tell people that I am. I will not be voting, and do not vote. Not even for Ron Paul *gasp*. I do however vote in my Occupy group's General Assemblies, because there is a significant difference. I will not vote for power to be put over someone else, or for guns to be pointed at non-violent peoples.

[Tom Foppiano]

Santorum

HAHA. Santorum is the shit. And yes, I did listen to that show. I listen to all of them. FF and FTL are the best radio shows out there. I work in the banking industry and also own my own (very small) business. Much of my work at home involves easy tasks made more tolerable by listening to your shows on my ipod, so thanks for the free entertainment. You and Neal are much appreciated.

And I know you guys went over your (Dale's) voting for a good part of the show and it was very interesting. I have wrested with the idea of voting as well. While, I'm not convinced that voting is immoral, I'm not convinced my vote will do anything, either. Basically, I don't have a horse in the voting race.

Again, I'm not trying to upset anyone. I'm not calling anyone a hypocrite or claiming that someone isn't a real voluntaryist. I don't even use the term. Its just that I've only heard the word "voluntaryist" used by the peeps on FTL and Flaming Freedom (the same group really) and I was surprised to read the anti-voting stuff on wikipedia. I just wanted to know if you guys embraced the non-voting aspect of wiki's definition.



UPDATE: Now I know why you guys wrote, "Why Dale, a devout voluntaryist, voted." I never got the real meaning of that sentence. To me, it read, "Why Dale, a devout libertarian, voted."

[Cognitive Dissident]

I'm an ancap or voluntaryist or free mouseketeer, or whatever.  I generally don't vote for people (voted for a fellow anarchist who ran for office as a libertarian, if he promised to remove the American flag from his lapel and keep it off.)  Other than him, I haven't voted for a politician since before 2008 some time.  I vote against initiatives and referenda that put up bonds, raise taxes, give government more odd jobs, etc.  The closest I've come to voting for a politician recently is when I caucused for Ron Paul in 2008.  I'll probably do it again this time.  Can't tell you if I'd vote for Ron Paul to become President.  Probably would.

[John Shaw]

I am a market anarchist. I also will accept anarcho-capitalist even though some people get panty bunched by it.

Voluntaryist has always seemed a little weaksauce and less... I dunno I hate to use the word brave because it's not really that, it's just sorta too soft for me.

And of course if you ask me directly I'm still a lemmethefuckalonian.