Using Minted Bullion as Currency

[njlibkid]

I've heard alot about the Liberty Dollar on the show as an alternative currency.  Of course, adopting the Liberty Dollar would depend on many businesses supporting it as a method of payment.  My question is, why not use privately minted silver and gold coins and bars as payment?  If we're going to talk about ousting the Federal Reserve bills, wouldn't it be a good idea to talk about some competition to the Liberty Dollar also?

[SaintLucifer]

I've heard alot about the Liberty Dollar on the show as an alternative currency.  Of course, adopting the Liberty Dollar would depend on many businesses supporting it as a method of payment.  My question is, why not use privately minted silver and gold coins and bars as payment?  If we're going to talk about ousting the Federal Reserve bills, wouldn't it be a good idea to talk about some competition to the Liberty Dollar also?

  You are one truly stupid fuck. Morons like yourself make things easier for fascists like myself. I need only point at you and say 'now do you understand the need for fascism? I thank you.

[velojym]

 

Nice! Bravo!
If you tone it down a bit, we can send you to Hillary's Kamp as a mole.

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

I've heard alot about the Liberty Dollar on the show as an alternative currency.  Of course, adopting the Liberty Dollar would depend on many businesses supporting it as a method of payment.  My question is, why not use privately minted silver and gold coins and bars as payment?  If we're going to talk about ousting the Federal Reserve bills, wouldn't it be a good idea to talk about some competition to the Liberty Dollar also?

Like the American Eagle Dollar?

www.ktordnance.com offers two prices for their 80% complete firearms frames, Federal Reserve Note, and AED.

[bushwacker]

There's also The Phoenix Dollar. BTW, I used one of the new $5 Quarter Liberty coins at the local Safeway grocerty store. They were excited, but unsure what to do about it. Then the manager told them it was OK to take,and I got my change in fiat FRN change.

BTW, is KT even really operational after the raid? See my sig link for some tips to protect yourself from official harassment.

[FKnight]

BTW, I used one of the new $5 Quarter Liberty coins at the local Safeway grocerty store. They were excited, but unsure what to do about it. Then the manager told them it was OK to take,and I got my change in fiat FRN change.

1/4 Troy ounce of Silver $2.777.  Great job screwing Safeway out of $2.22.

[theodorelogan]

Better they get $2.78 worth of silver than not silver.

Then again, with straight bullion you can just give them 100% silver.

[FKnight]

Better they get $2.78 worth of silver than not silver.

Sure -- unless they're providing $5 worth of goods and change in exchage for $2.78 worth of silver.

[Minsk]

Better they get $2.78 worth of silver than not silver.

Sure -- unless they're providing $5 worth of goods and change in exchage for $2.78 worth of silver.

Which is still fine... because someone else will take the LD piece for a value of $5. Or if not, they just need to wait another few years for the FRNs to devalue appropriately

Yes, I prefer commodity-backed digital currency and by-weight bullion, but partially-backed LDs are not a bad deal. It's rather tricky to make money minting bullion coins, unless you take the approach of the official mints and sell them for ~2x real value.

[Ecolitan]

2x the real value?  Are they really that expensive to mint?  If so I'd say there's got to be a better way.  Either a better way to mint them or a better way to use silver as money.  This is why I'm not a fan of the liberty dollar.  Putting a currency denomination is walking a pretty fine line with the truth.  If they just had the weight I would be much happier.  I could explain that minting and distribution costs money but if I try to explain about the implied to comparison the the FRN a discerning person can't help but find it a little fishy because I do.

[ladyattis]

egold and the like are great digital bullion currencies. It's sad there's not many companies willing to couple them into their payment services considering it costs next to nothing to convert to the fiat currency of choice and back again. Morons...

-- Bridget

[theodorelogan]

Sure -- unless they're providing $5 worth of goods and change in exchage for $2.78 worth of silver.

When you give them FRN's they get $0 worth of silver.  They get a piece of paper that says $5 on it.  They get that with the liberty dollar too.  The silver is a bonus.

[FKnight]

Sure -- unless they're providing $5 worth of goods and change in exchage for $2.78 worth of silver.

When you give them FRN's they get $0 worth of silver.  They get a piece of paper that says $5 on it.  They get that with the liberty dollar too.  The silver is a bonus.

Sure - this is absolutely correct.  However, the problem with the Liberty Dollar in particular is that when  you pass a $5 Liberty quarter in exchange for goods or services that have been valued by the seller at $5 in Federal Reserve Notes, you've passed on the premium of the purchase of that silver to that seller and have taken goods and services from him at a price less than what he has valued them at.

It doesn't matter what you feel money should be backed by -- all that matters is what the seller has valued his products and services at.  If he has valued his product or service at $5, and he accepts an amount of silver that can only be exchanged for half the value of his product or service, he's either an idiot or a really nice guy who doesn't mind selling products and services for less than what he wants to get for them. 

Sure, you can say that $5 worth of Liberty Dollars is worth 1/4 ounce of silver and $5 of FRNs is worth zero silver -- that's absolutely true; except that what is frequently forgotten and overlooked is that FRNs are indeed backed by a precious commodity that is much more valuable to most Americans than silver - their time, labor, and personal property.  $5 in FRNs is redeemable for nine minutes of time and labor.  That means that nine minutes of my time and labor is redeemable for two packs of Marlboros.  Six hours of my time is redeemable for an Apple iPod.  That time and labor is represented by FRNs. 

Therefore, it doesn't matter if the Liberty Dollar is backed by silver.  If I expend my time and energy in exchange for Liberty Dollars instead of FRNs, I have to work 18 minutes for two packs of cigarettes and I have to work overtime to buy my iPod.

No thanks. 

Now -- if you want to give me three $5 Liberty Quarters for nine minutes of my time, that's fine.  I'm in the business of making money that I can buy other products and services with from other people who also know that FRNs are backed by their time and labor.  I'm not there as a seller of products, services, or time, to help you recoup the money you lost buying silver from NORFED at two times market value that I can't trade for face value unless I join NORFED's pyramid.

[error]

The problem with this argument is there's no shortage of people willing to give that seller $5 in FRN's for that $5 Silver Liberty.

[FKnight]

The problem with this argument is there's no shortage of people willing to give that seller $5 in FRN's for that $5 Silver Liberty.

Sure -- as long as I'm okay with my business screwing people out of their money by trading them a Liberty Silver in exchange for their FRNs at a 1:1 ratio to Liberty face value.  My business, though, is not okay with that. 

Meanwhile, NORFED takes all the FRNs they got by charging a 100% markup and puts them in a bank (which you can't do with Liberty dollars), and makes interest on it.  Something tells me the folks over at NORFED aren't buying their houses and cars with Liberty dollars  

The folks at NORFED also know that it is more likely that merchants, on the whole, will eat the cost of accepting Liberty Dollars because the rarity of them actually encountering one makes it less than cost effective for them to put in the time and effort they would have to put in to getting them exchanged for face value in FRNs (e.g. screwing someone, or joining NORFED's pyramid).  As a result, NORFED's profit in FRNs is guaranteed.