US questions its unwavering support for Israel

[libertylover]

Missing headline from American News Sources.  This article is from the UK Guardian.  

There are questions that rarely get asked in Washington. For years, the mantra that America's intimate alliance with Israel was as good for the US as it was the Jewish state went largely unchallenged by politicians aware of the cost of anything but unwavering support.

But swirling in the background when Binyamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, arrives in Washington tomorrow to patch up relations with the White House will be a question rarely voiced until recently: is Israel ‑ or, at the very least, its current government ‑ endangering US security and American troops?

Netanyahu would prefer to be seen as an indispensable ally in confronting Islamist terror. But his insistence on building Jewish settlements in East Jerusalem, which is causing a deep rift with Washington, is seen as evidence of a lack of serious interest in the establishment of a viable Palestinian state. That in turn is seen as fuelling hostility towards the US in other parts of the Middle East and beyond, because America is perceived as Israel's shield.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/05/us-israel-support

At least some are starting to realize that the Lukid led Israeli government is harming the USA national interest.

[Turd Ferguson]

Careful now, people will think you hate all jews because you dont support giving money and support to the state of Israel, you jew hating fuckin nazi !!! 

[avshae]

You'd like that wouldn't you? Not because you care about US interests, but more because you think the Palestinians would gain advantage from it. Well let me explain to you why you're wrong.

There is a lot of speculation, wishful thinking, ifs and should and want-tos in the article by who else if not the Guardian. (For instance the falsity that Israel's relations with Turkey "were compromised" by the flotilla incident, when in fact the Turkish government sent the flotilla with the intent of using it as an excuse to distance itself from Israel and grow closer with Iranian buddy Ahmedinejad). I don't have time to go over everything. But lets suppose the US does step down its support for Israel. What will happen and how will it affect US interests? Let me offer some speculation of my own. If the Guardian can then so can I.

*) Without US influence there will be less incentive for an Israeli right-wing government to make any concessions to the Palestinians, the peace process will stall even more than it is stalled now. Did the Palestinians gain any advantage from 1948 to 1967 when the US and Israel were not yet close allies?

*) With a strong US ally, Israel could afford a degree of moderation with its neighbors. But if that situation changes then Israel might be forced to deal harshly with existential threats, such as a nuclear capable Iran.  Without a strong US ally Israel will would be more vulnerable to a nuclear threat by Ahmed-"die you Zionist dogs"-inejad, and thus would be more likely to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities. If this move is successful, Israel will gain significant power in the middle-east, as in "don't fuck with us". If not, the whole region may plunge into an all-out war, which is not in anybody's interest including the US.

*) Due to the large number of Jews and powerful Jewish lobby in the US, any US administration that distances itself from Israel will lose the elections and lose critical political power, giving way to an administration that values its strategic allies.

*) In the meantime, Israel will ally with some other superpower who knows whats good for them such as Germany or China. Just as Israel flourished without US support from 1948 to 1967, so it will continue to flourish. US will lose critical influence in the middle east to Israel's new ally.

*) Tens of thousands of jobs will be lost in the US, as the majority of US aid to Israel is actually spent in the US. Leading the US administration to lose even more power as above.

*) Israel may suffer a short-term loss of cash, but in the long term Israel's economy will grow and become more independent. Things Israel relied on the US for, it will either produce itself or import from other places. And Israel has no shortage of technological capability. In the 80s the US gov even stopped Israel from producing the Lavi, an Israeli combat aircraft that would have kicked ass of anything that existed then.

[blackie]

Stuff

You make it sound like it would be a good thing for Israel, so you should support it.

[libertylover]

Stuff

You make it sound like it would be a good thing for Israel, so you should support it.

Essentially, the Mossad agent is proving the article to be truthful in that the USA government no longer acts in the best interest of the United States.  The United States government has been co-opted to act in the best interest of Israel.   

[davann]

Stuff

You make it sound like it would be a good thing for Israel, so you should support it.

Essentially, the Mossad agent is proving the article to be truthful in that the USA government no longer acts in the best interest of the United States.  The United States government has been co-opted to act in the best interest of Israel.   

Yes, I found this funny the agent slipped up so bad. No doubt further training is required.

[libertylover]

Stuff

You make it sound like it would be a good thing for Israel, so you should support it.

Essentially, the Mossad agent is proving the article to be truthful in that the USA government no longer acts in the best interest of the United States.  The United States government has been co-opted to act in the best interest of Israel.   

Yes, I found this funny the agent slipped up so bad. No doubt further training is required.

And what planet has he been on.  If it wasn't for the strong support and the initial recognition by then President Truman Israel wouldn't even be a country right now. 

I suppose the tens of thousands of jobs are from our military industrial complex jobs tied up in the unnecessary wars in Iraq and Afghanistan which are both more in Israel's interest than in the USA's.   Lets forget the millions of jobs lost due to the inflation created by increasing the money supply to pay for the military industrial complex.

I oppose the war on drugs as well.  I won't shed one tear over the loss of prison guard and DEA jobs the end of the War on Drugs would cause.  In fact I oppose many government jobs as they are actually a drain on the productive elements of our economy and do more long term harm.

[avshae]

Stuff

You make it sound like it would be a good thing for Israel, so you should support it.

If a government wants to make its state a super power, the old fashioned way was to just conquer places. The US does it more subtly, influencing countries with aid. The US could become another Canada if it wanted to, but it doesn't seem like that is what US govs want - they want influence, without becoming an actual old-fashioned empire.

Israel does benefit from US aid, but there ain't no free lunches. The price is that Israeli govs can't strictly do what is best for Israel but must consider US influence as well. Another problem with the aid is that it makes Israel unnecessarily dependent, in a way that it would not be had it not been for the aid.

So I do support gradual weening of Israel off the foreign aid, I think Israel is more than capable of handling it (I believe there is even a plan for this). But apart from that I believe it is in both state's interest to maintain the warm relations. After all, there are several superpowers but only one kick-ass democracy in the middle east.

[Diogenes The Cynic]

Stuff

You make it sound like it would be a good thing for Israel, so you should support it.

If a government wants to make its state a super power, the old fashioned way was to just conquer places. The US does it more subtly, influencing countries with aid. The US could become another Canada if it wanted to, but it doesn't seem like that is what US govs want - they want influence, without becoming an actual old-fashioned empire.

Israel does benefit from US aid, but there ain't no free lunches. The price is that Israeli govs can't strictly do what is best for Israel but must consider US influence as well. Another problem with the aid is that it makes Israel unnecessarily dependent, in a way that it would not be had it not been for the aid.

So I do support gradual weening of Israel off the foreign aid, I think Israel is more than capable of handling it (I believe there is even a plan for this). But apart from that I believe it is in both state's interest to maintain the warm relations. After all, there are several superpowers but only one kick-ass democracy in the middle east.

I am with you on this one. Its mutually beneficial for the aid to stop. The sooner, the better.

[blackie]

There are always strings attached to US government money.

[avshae]

Essentially, the Mossad agent

Not funny. That's just about the same as me calling you "the Arch-Terrorist".

is proving the article to be truthful in that the USA government no longer acts in the best interest of the United States.  The United States government has been co-opted to act in the best interest of Israel.   

Nothing I wrote even goes close to "proving" any of that. If you want such "proof" you should pick up "The Elders of Zion" - that's where you'll learn how tiny Israel controls the US, and the entire world in fact.

[avshae]

[Cheap shot]. If it wasn't for the strong support and the initial recognition by then President Truman Israel wouldn't even be a country right now.

Truman was a supporter of Israel, but i doubt how much his letters, speeches and meetings were effective in stopping the full-steam Arab invasion of Israel in 1948. Now if we woulda sent over a few dozen tanks that would have helped.

the unnecessary wars in Iraq and Afghanistan which are both more in Israel's interest than in the USA's.

Iraq is a 1000 km from Israel. There used to be a sick tyrant there who launched Scud missiles at Israel, but he's gone now. Afghanistan is 3000 miles away from Israel. The Afghan leaders don't call for the destruction of Israel, like Ahmedinejad does. Just because they are Arab or Muslim countries does not mean that Israel has any quarrel with Iraq or Afghanistan.

Lets forget the millions of jobs lost due to the inflation created by increasing the money supply to pay for the military industrial complex.

Sure, lets also forget all basic principles of economics while we're at it.

[yamnuska]

I wanna know when the invasion of Iran will start, I wanna go kill me some sand niggers. I hope we nuke 'em

[Diogenes The Cynic]

I wanna know when the invasion of Iran will start, I wanna go kill me some sand niggers. I hope we nuke 'em

Not cool

[TimeLady Victorious]

fuck both sides.

fuck foreign aid to tinpot dictatorships.

fuck military aid to everything.