UK libertarian movement

[Gay_Libertarian]

Eastern Europe has potential -- the Czech Republic could be a good place for an EFSP.

[libertylover]

The best candidate in Europe would be Estonia.  I would check into that country first.  As for Ireland the population isn't particularly friendly towards British I am sure you understand why.  If you want to move to the Americas and don't mind learning Spanish the Dominican Republic is a great candidate.  It is a tropical location however the immegration policies are very friendly.  You only have to live there two years and your in.  As for canibus legalization possibilities Canada isn't a bad choice and is open for immigration of British in fact they are hurting for workers.

[Gay_Libertarian]

Estonia is not a good idea.  It has a strong right-wing populist/fascist political movement and quite a bit of corruption to boot.

[Porcupine_in_MA]

Well then how about Lithuania? Since we're going Baltic here.. I've heard good things about it as far as immigration. Don't know much else about it except that it was the last pagan country in Europe and I think that's cool as hell.

[Gay_Libertarian]

The Baltics all suffer from very strong fascist political movements and an undercurrent of racism.

I suppose certain types would be welcome, but let's just say I'd not be too keen to visit Riga or Tallinn these days. . .

[Porcupine_in_MA]

The Baltics all suffer from very strong fascist political movements and an undercurrent of racism.

I suppose certain types would be welcome, but let's just say I'd not be too keen to visit Riga or Tallinn these days. . .

Damn, and I was looking at some pictures of Lithunia recently. A lovely land. Are these very strong fascist movements you mention really widespread in the Baltic lands or just in certain areas?

[Gay_Libertarian]

All three Baltic states have a strong fascist movement which is an outgrowth of resistance to Sovietism.

I like the Czech Republic, personally.  Prague is beautiful, the whole country is relatively open, lots of economic freedom, cheap to live in, easy to migrate to (just open a business, it costs under $1,000).  The only downside with the Czech option (and Baltic options as well) are the almost impossible-to-learn languages.

[libertylover]

Estonia is not a good idea.  It has a strong right-wing populist/fascist political movement and quite a bit of corruption to boot.

What gives you that impression?
This is what I have read.

http://theunknowncandidate.blogspot.com/2006/09/estonia-land-of-free.html
The September 4, 2006 article about Estonia you have to scroll down past the adds to get to the article.

That said, if Tierney's facts are correct, US politicians could learn a thing or two from its former prime minister, Mart Laar, who was largely responsible for the transformation of this formerly "impoverished part of the Soviet Union" into this year's number one ranked country on the State of the World Liberty Index.

By their own definition:
    "The State of World Liberty Project monitors the level of individual and economic freedom and limited government in countries around the world. We are also working to become a resource on the progress of libertarian and free market liberal political movements, as well as an international forum for discussion for people involved in these movements."
     Given the criteria and knowing that Estonia is number one, you're probably dying to know how the US fared. Do we still live in 'the land of the free'?

  http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1678667/posts 
It is justified by history that Estonia would sit atop this list. This small Baltic state fought Soviet socialism, defeating the Soviets in the Estonian Liberation War of 1918-1920 and winning 20 years of independence. During World War II, Estonia was invaded by the USSR following the 1939 signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement between the USSR and Nazi Germany, and the Soviets killed off the political and the intellectual leaders. The country suffered immensely under their rule.

Estonia finally won their freedom following the 1987-1991 Singing Revolution, in which Estonians gathered night after night, singing national songs and hymns banned by the Soviets and listening to rock music. When the Soviets attempted to quell the revolution, the Estonians used their bodies to shield radio and TV stations from being attacked by tanks. The revolution ended without any bloodshed, with 1/5th of the population having participated at some point. It marks one of the greatest triumphs of the power of liberty over authoritarianism in history. Estonia has since established a solid government, liberalized trade and expanded individual freedom. The Estonian Reform Party, a free market liberal political party, is also gaining influence and has made a significant impact on Estonian politics, controlling about 18% of parliament. While Estonia is far from a libertarian paradise (with a score of only 85.3%), it is closer than any other country on this list.

Fascism as a word.
I also have difficulty with the word fascism as it tends to be nothing more than name calling.  However if they are becoming zenophopic you could kind of understand that after being invaded by the USSR and having their national identity oppressed for so long.  I like to quote George Orwell " ...the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else ... Except for the relatively small number of Fascist sympathisers, almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. That is about as near to a definition as this much-abused word has come."

[sparkie]

The first criteria for consideration would have to to be 'are they members of the EU?', second would be 'are they in the process of applying for EU membership?' as any nation voting for the EU is voting for tighter goverment control and more taxes not less
This,for me, rules out both Estonia and the Czech Republic. 
The next criteria should be language, English is the undisputed universal language of international business and therefore seems the logical choice, although there is definately an arguement for saying that if you truely want freedom learning Slovak (for example) is a small price to pay.

what other criteria are needed?

Is comparing differing nations like trying to to compare an apple with a lump of coal?

 

[libertylover]

The original concept of the EU was actually a very good idea.  They wanted to trade between eachother with the same ease as the states in the US trade with eachother.  Unfortunately that idea got destroyed as member nations wanted to impose their laws on other member nations.  This is the same problem we are currently having in the US with the FED wanting to impose national restrictions on all the states. 

Equally unfortunate in order to do business in Europe you as a European nation you are pressured to join the EU.  Otherwise your goods and services are tarifed so that you can't compete.  If Estonia wanted to break into that market they were faced with going it alone or joining.  I suppose you can fault them for taking the easy way.

[Gay_Libertarian]

The EEC went bad the moment it morphed into the EU.

Originally as LL notes, it was just a free trade bloc.  Then government bureaucrats realized they could create an entirely new layer of government on top of the already thick layers and guarantee themselves ongoing jobs in Brussels if they ever lost their existing jobs in Paris, Bonn or Rome.

[HOO-HAA]

Just an update on this topic - I know this is an older thread.

There now is a libertarian party in the UK:

www.lpuk.org

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had any dealings with them?

Also, I'd be interested to know if anyone knows anything about libertarian activity/ politics in Ireland/ N. Ireland.

In N. Ireland, we do have a devolved government - which is a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, because of paranoia, people in NI still, generally, vote in a very polarised manner - meaning we have extremism rampant in office.   

[The Champ]

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had any dealings with them?

I saw this a while ago, and dismissed them after reading their manifesto:

http://lpuk.org/pages/manifesto.php

Education vouchers, immigration controls, taxes on consumption, wishy-washy firearms positions, etc etc.  This horseshit is considered radical libertarianism in the UK.  Man I hate this socialist shithole.

[Porcupine_in_MA]

THAT is considered a "libertarian" manifesto?? They have a pretty damn strange definition of "libertarianism" over there.

[HOO-HAA]

It's even slimmer pickings in Northern Ireland, where I live.

Meet our most libertarian party:

http://www.allianceparty.org/

I've e-mailed them to ask 2 questions:

1) How committed are you to working towards smaller government and further devolution of powers?

2) How committed are you in working towards the simplifying of immigration law, in order to encourage more people into NI to help fuel the economy and further diversify the population? 

I'll be sure to post my reply - if I get one