UK Jewish MP: Israel acting like Nazis in Gaza

[libertylover]

If even a Jewish MP is pointing out that the current Israeli Government is acting like Nazis why are people still apologizing for the murderous actions of Israel in the West Bank and Gaza?
[youtube=425,350]v/qMGuYjt6CP8[/youtube]
Sir Gerald Kaufman
Veteran Labour Member of UK Parliament
January 16, 2009
He lost family members during WWII who were murdered simply for being Jewish.  Friends with several of the Leaders of Israel. 

I suppose the Israeli apologist are going to say the man is paid off or suffering from old age or some other lame excuse. 

[fatcat]

nah he's just a self hating jew.


Link?

[libertylover]

nah he's just a self hating jew.
Link?

If you press the up arrow next to the speaker symbol or HQ box (appears during play) on the youtube frame you will see the link to the actual video.  Also along the bottom will appear several topic related videos.  Of those Ron Paul speaking out about how Israel created Hamas and Pat Buchanan criticizing the Israeli treatment of Palestinians. 

[libertylover]

Just wanted to let people see this because it is from an individual who you would think you are supporting by supporting Israel.  And even he is calling the actions of the current Israeli government Nazi like and making comparisons to the Warsaw Ghetto in Poland.  So if a high ranking supporter of Israel is saying this it should warrant consideration shouldn't it.

[libertylover]

During the 23-days of what should be better named an aggression than a war, UNDP estimated that 14,000 Palestinian homes were destroyed, along with 219 factories and 240 schools.

But most of them, said human right groups, were not necessary but rather deliberate destruction aimed at ruining Palestinian lives and economy.


Over 14,000 homes have been destroyed during the Cast Lead operation, Gaza 2009
    Picture: AP

Amnesty International challenges the Israeli main narrative that “buildings were destroyed because of the military operation needs”, by releasing evidences of the use of mines. Fragments of anti-tank mines have been found in the rubbles of destroyed properties, highlighting that houses were blown from below, rather than being destroyed from above in an airstrike.

“Israeli troops have to leave their vehicles to plant the mines, indicating that they faced no danger and that there was no military or operational justification. (…) Unless those operating on the ground felt not just 100% but 200% secure - that the places were not booby trapped, that they wouldn’t come under fire - they could not have got out of the vehicles," she said. "They would not have used that method”, said Donatella Rovera, the head of the AI fact-finding mission to Southern Israel and Gaza.

This allegation is furthermore backed up by the conclusion of Breaking the Silence, an Israeli group, stating that “many demolitions had been carried out when there was no immediate threat” and that “from the testimonies that we’ve gathered, lots of demolitions - buildings demolished either by bulldozers or explosives - were done after the area was under Israeli control," said Yehuda Shaul, one of the group’s members.

Though destruction of civilian property is not illegal in itself under international law, it must be justifiable on military grounds - for example if the building was booby trapped or being used as cover for enemy fighters which was apparently not always the case.

But wanton destruction on a large scale would qualify as a war crime, emphasized Amnesty. Could 15,000 private homes constitute a ‘large scale’? It is likely so.

[avshae]

nah he's just a self hating jew.

The guy really is a professional self-hating jew.

[avshae]

If even a Jewish MP is pointing out that the current Israeli Government is acting like Nazis why are people still apologizing for the murderous actions of Israel in the West Bank and Gaza?
[youtube=425,350]v/qMGuYjt6CP8[/youtube]
Sir Gerald Kaufman
Veteran Labour Member of UK Parliament
January 16, 2009
He lost family members during WWII who were murdered simply for being Jewish.  Friends with several of the Leaders of Israel. 

I suppose the Israeli apologist are going to say the man is paid off or suffering from old age or some other lame excuse. 

In order to be a Hamas sympathizer and still appear rational and liberal, you have no choice but to resort to lies, falsities and inaccuracy, as "libertylover" has shown us, and as this guy did too. Having years of experience in Arab and pro-Arab bullshit detection, I can point out at least a few (takes out red marker):

1) Kaufman refers to the famous King David Hotel bombing in 1946 as an example of what he calls "Jewish terrorism". He neglects to mention that even the ultra-right wing Irgun Zvai Leumi that carried out the bombing made three calls sufficiently ahead of time to the hotel so that people could evacuate. The intention was to bomb the British headquarters, not kill anyone. The warnings went unheeded by the British and the hotel management, so people were still inside when the explosion occurred. Barring several singular events that can be described as terrorism, the Jewish state was not "born in terrorism" as Kaufman tries to make you believe. 99% of Jewish militia activity prior to the establishment of Israel did not directly target civilians. If only Hamas would follow that example.

2) Kaufman tries to equate Hamas armed militants targeted by IDF to Jews murdered by the Nazis. Good thing he doesn't try to equate them to Gandhi.

3) Kaufman paints the picture as if Israel did not negotiate with Arafat. Pray Mr. Kaufman, who on the Palestinian side signed the landmark Oslo accords? In his last years Arafat was deemed obstructive to the continuation of the peace process, even by the Americans and Egyptian mediators, and was therefore sent to pasture to live out his remaining days in Hebron.

[avshae]

Amnesty International challenges the Israeli main narrative that “buildings were destroyed because of the military operation needs”, by releasing evidences of the use of mines. Fragments of anti-tank mines have been found in the rubbles of destroyed properties, highlighting that houses were blown from below, rather than being destroyed from above in an airstrike.

“Israeli troops have to leave their vehicles to plant the mines, indicating that they faced no danger and that there was no military or operational justification. (…) Unless those operating on the ground felt not just 100% but 200% secure - that the places were not booby trapped, that they wouldn’t come under fire - they could not have got out of the vehicles," she said. "They would not have used that method”, said Donatella Rovera, the head of the AI fact-finding mission to Southern Israel and Gaza.

Bullshit

Anti-tank mines are a makeshift way to destroy buildings, IDF demolition units would do it with TNT or some other charge, not with anti-tank mines. But Hamas would. Hamas demolished buildings as a routine tactic and used the rubble to block roads trying to stop IDF from advancing. Hamas also used many anti-tank mines against IDF tanks, while IDF probably did not even carry one single anti-tank mine to battle since Hamas don't have tanks. This quoted person presents no evidence whatsoever that it was IDF that demolished those buildings at all, let alone needlessly.

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Amnesty International challenges the Israeli main narrative that “buildings were destroyed because of the military operation needs”, by releasing evidences of the use of mines. Fragments of anti-tank mines have been found in the rubbles of destroyed properties, highlighting that houses were blown from below, rather than being destroyed from above in an airstrike.

“Israeli troops have to leave their vehicles to plant the mines, indicating that they faced no danger and that there was no military or operational justification. (…) Unless those operating on the ground felt not just 100% but 200% secure - that the places were not booby trapped, that they wouldn’t come under fire - they could not have got out of the vehicles," she said. "They would not have used that method”, said Donatella Rovera, the head of the AI fact-finding mission to Southern Israel and Gaza.

Bullshit

Anti-tank mines are a makeshift way to destroy buildings, IDF demolition units would do it with TNT or some other charge, not with anti-tank mines. But Hamas would. Hamas demolished buildings as a routine tactic and used the rubble to block roads trying to stop IDF from advancing. Hamas also used many anti-tank mines against IDF tanks, while IDF probably did not even carry one single anti-tank mine to battle since Hamas don't have tanks. This quoted person presents no evidence whatsoever that it was IDF that demolished those buildings at all, let alone needlessly.

Yeah I was gonna say that.

[libertylover]

Amnesty International challenges the Israeli main narrative that “buildings were destroyed because of the military operation needs”, by releasing evidences of the use of mines. Fragments of anti-tank mines have been found in the rubbles of destroyed properties, highlighting that houses were blown from below, rather than being destroyed from above in an airstrike.

“Israeli troops have to leave their vehicles to plant the mines, indicating that they faced no danger and that there was no military or operational justification. (…) Unless those operating on the ground felt not just 100% but 200% secure - that the places were not booby trapped, that they wouldn’t come under fire - they could not have got out of the vehicles," she said. "They would not have used that method”, said Donatella Rovera, the head of the AI fact-finding mission to Southern Israel and Gaza.

Bullshit

Anti-tank mines are a makeshift way to destroy buildings, IDF demolition units would do it with TNT or some other charge, not with anti-tank mines. But Hamas would. Hamas demolished buildings as a routine tactic and used the rubble to block roads trying to stop IDF from advancing. Hamas also used many anti-tank mines against IDF tanks, while IDF probably did not even carry one single anti-tank mine to battle since Hamas don't have tanks. This quoted person presents no evidence whatsoever that it was IDF that demolished those buildings at all, let alone needlessly.

Yeah I was gonna say that.

FALSE neither of you are providing any proof for your claims.    Are there any pictures of Hamas planting anything.  There are plenty of picture of IDF tanks and bombs demolishing homes.  Even a video of IDF running over and American who was standing the way of the destruction of a Doctors home.  Neither of you watched the MPs statement either just keep on making up excuses for the current Israeli government.

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Amnesty International challenges the Israeli main narrative that “buildings were destroyed because of the military operation needs”, by releasing evidences of the use of mines. Fragments of anti-tank mines have been found in the rubbles of destroyed properties, highlighting that houses were blown from below, rather than being destroyed from above in an airstrike.

“Israeli troops have to leave their vehicles to plant the mines, indicating that they faced no danger and that there was no military or operational justification. (…) Unless those operating on the ground felt not just 100% but 200% secure - that the places were not booby trapped, that they wouldn’t come under fire - they could not have got out of the vehicles," she said. "They would not have used that method”, said Donatella Rovera, the head of the AI fact-finding mission to Southern Israel and Gaza.

Bullshit

Anti-tank mines are a makeshift way to destroy buildings, IDF demolition units would do it with TNT or some other charge, not with anti-tank mines. But Hamas would. Hamas demolished buildings as a routine tactic and used the rubble to block roads trying to stop IDF from advancing. Hamas also used many anti-tank mines against IDF tanks, while IDF probably did not even carry one single anti-tank mine to battle since Hamas don't have tanks. This quoted person presents no evidence whatsoever that it was IDF that demolished those buildings at all, let alone needlessly.

Yeah I was gonna say that.

FALSE neither of you are providing any proof for your claims.    Are there any pictures of Hamas planting anything.  There are plenty of picture of IDF tanks and bombs demolishing homes.  Even a video of IDF running over and American who was standing the way of the destruction of a Doctors home.  Neither of you watched the MPs statement either just keep on making up excuses for the current Israeli government.

What evidence or reasoning do you have that Israeli Defense Forces would bring anti-tank mines into Gaza?  That seems pretty odd to me.  Show some proof!

[libertylover]

Sorry Israeli forces plant land mines and have even admitted to doing so in the past.

Excerpt from UK Guardian story:  Israeli newspapers quoted senior military officials as saying yesterday that the army had invaded the area, which is supposed to be under Palestinian control, to plant a land mine or other explosive device.
 
"Unfortunately, instead of terrorists coming across the bomb, innocent children were hurt by it," a senior security source told the Ma'ariv newspaper, which gave a detailed account of how a special army unit invaded the area to plant the device. A senior army official told Israel Radio the killing of the five boys was a "grave operational mishap".

UNIFIL commander Major General Lalit Tewari says he is confident the Israelis will “soon” provide many more land mine maps,......  What I thought you believed that IDF did use land mines??? or have land mines. 

Picture of Israeli land mines.  Please don't believe your lying eyes.   Now you will be saying those are Hamas dressed up as Israeli soldiers or some other BS.


The original witnesses of the wanton destruction of Gaza homes, factories and schools were from Amnesty International and submitted by the AP in an unusual move for the AP they directly contradicted the Israeli statements.  Maybe you should back up and read the original report as posted.  The Amnesty International observers saw Israeli soldiers planting mines and blowing up buildings in the Gaza.  If it had been Hamas the team of International observers would have said Hamas.  Oh but that is right everyone in the world is out to get Israel cause they can do no wrong.

The other group accusing Israel of blowing up the homes with mines is a group of IDF veterans. 

Breaking the Silence, an Israeli group,(not just any group they are IDF veterans and soldiers)http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/11/listening_post/main708205_page2.shtml stating that “many demolitions had been carried out when there was no immediate threat” and that “from the testimonies that we’ve gathered, lots of demolitions - buildings demolished either by bulldozers or explosives - were done after the area was under Israeli control," said Yehuda Shaul, one of the group’s members.

[avshae]

Sorry Israeli forces plant land mines and have even admitted to doing so in the past.

Excerpt from UK Guardian story:  Israeli newspapers quoted senior military officials as saying yesterday that the army had invaded the area, which is supposed to be under Palestinian control, to plant a land mine or other explosive device.
 
"Unfortunately, instead of terrorists coming across the bomb, innocent children were hurt by it," a senior security source told the Ma'ariv newspaper, which gave a detailed account of how a special army unit invaded the area to plant the device. A senior army official told Israel Radio the killing of the five boys was a "grave operational mishap".

UNIFIL commander Major General Lalit Tewari says he is confident the Israelis will “soon” provide many more land mine maps,......  What I thought you believed that IDF did use land mines??? or have land mines. 

Picture of Israeli land mines.  Please don't believe your lying eyes.   Now you will be saying those are Hamas dressed up as Israeli soldiers or some other BS.


The original witnesses of the wanton destruction of Gaza homes, factories and schools were from Amnesty International and submitted by the AP in an unusual move for the AP they directly contradicted the Israeli statements.  Maybe you should back up and read the original report as posted.  The Amnesty International observers saw Israeli soldiers planting mines and blowing up buildings in the Gaza.  If it had been Hamas the team of International observers would have said Hamas.  Oh but that is right everyone in the world is out to get Israel cause they can do no wrong.

The other group accusing Israel of blowing up the homes with mines is a group of IDF veterans. 

Breaking the Silence, an Israeli group,(not just any group they are IDF veterans and soldiers)http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/11/listening_post/main708205_page2.shtml stating that “many demolitions had been carried out when there was no immediate threat” and that “from the testimonies that we’ve gathered, lots of demolitions - buildings demolished either by bulldozers or explosives - were done after the area was under Israeli control," said Yehuda Shaul, one of the group’s members.

Now I think I know why you are a Hamas sympathizer -- because you have an acute incapacity to perceive logic.

I never said, nor does anyone in the IDF claim, that the IDF does not use land mines. Both anti-tank and anti-personnel mines are perfectly legitimate and used by just about any army in the world. International law requires that you map and fence the the mine-field with warning signs. (Which by the way Syria never did which is why there are acres on acres of wild mine fields in the Golan Heights from 60 years ago which until this day cannot be cleared.)

What I said is that it is highly unlikely that IDF would use anti-tank mines to destroy houses in the Gaza campaign. And that was in response to your unfounded accusation. Much more destruction of buildings was done by Hamas in attempt to stop Israeli advance or trying to blow up structures when IDF soldiers enter them.

And just so you stop asking where is the proof here you go:
Hamas booby trap school and zoo in Gaza
IDF Ltnt. shows how and where Hamas placed IEDs in the midst of civilian buildings, on a captured Hamas operational map


Examining the picture you have shown, the soldiers are not in full battle gear and the road sign and fence make it clear that this picture was taken inside Israel, according to the vegetation probably  somewhere in the north, nowhere near Gaza.

To summarize we have here an example of classic Arab propaganda, item 12(c): trying to make a false connotation by displaying a picture out of context.

[libertylover]

The facts are a long time supporter of Israel and a person who was close to the original prime ministers of Israel is now calling the current administration of Israel Nazi like.  He is publicly condemning the practices of Israel now in 2009.  Says that Israel is using western guilt to perpetrate war crimes on a virtually defenseless population.  And is directly responsible for the rise of Hamas because they refused to work with more moderate Palestinian leadership which got voted out?  Where are the prominent Palestinians defending the actions of Israel in the Gaza as being justified?????

Israeli Defense Forces veterans are saying that they witnessed the abuse of power by Israeli Forces and the intentional destruction of homes, businesses and schools by their own forces.   Link to CBS News about Breaking the Silence http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/11/listening_post/main708205.shtml  Additionally a group of International fact finding observers say that Israel is lying and was responsible in the article provided from the Associate Press.  AP is a highly recognized news organization which tends to sympathize with the Israelis.

IJAN International Jewish Anti-Zionism Network condemns the attempt to derail the Durban Review process
Monday, April 27, 2009  
We are appalled by the concerted effort, led by Israeli officials, Zionist organizations and apologists, to derail the Durban Review Conference. We condemn the use of the memory of the Nazi genocide, as Jewish organizations did during the Durban Review week, in the defense of Israel's systematic domination and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.  more at http://www.ijsn.net/home/

The Guardian
Gaza war crime claims gather pace as more troops speak out / Peter Beaumont       22/3/2009
Fresh allegations have come to light that gung-ho leadership inculcated a culture of disregard for Palestinian casualties
An investigation by a group of former Israeli soldiers has uncovered new evidence of the military's conduct during the assault on Gaza two months ago. According to the group Breaking the Silence, the witness statements of the 15 soldiers who have come forward to describe their concerns over Operation Cast Lead appear to corroborate claims of random killings and vandalism carried out during the operation made by a separate group of anonymous servicemen during a seminar at a military college.  more at http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/22/israel-palestinian-territories-war-crimes

These are Jewish and Israeli sources saying Israel is guilty of crimes against Palestinians. Not outsiders and not the enemy but their own people are saying that Israel is guilty of misconduct.   And these reports are in or on major news outlets.  

  

[libertylover]

U.N. war crimes inquiry hopes to visit Gaza early June
 20 May 2009 11:14:18 GMT
Source: Reuters 

* U.N. war crimes team hopes to visit region in June

* Leader Richard Goldstone says no official Israeli reply

* Inquiry team prepared to enter Gaza through Egypt

* Will hold public hearings to gather testimony

By Stephanie Nebehay

GENEVA, May 20 (Reuters) - United Nations human rights investigators said on Wednesday they hoped to visit Gaza and southern Israel in early June and hold public hearings on whether war crimes were committed in the recent conflict.

Richard Goldstone, the South African jurist who heads the four-member team, said Israel has not yet officially responded to its request to enter the country for the investigation into its invasion of Gaza in late December.

But the team was prepared to enter the coastal strip via the Rafah crossing in Egypt, a "second choice," Goldstone said.

...........

Richard Falk, the U.N. human rights investigator for the Palestinian territories, said in a March report that launching attacks without the ability to distinguish between military targets and surrounding civilians "would seem to constitute a war crime of the greatest magnitude under international law".

Falk, an American international law expert who like Goldstone is Jewish, was detained and turned back from Israel when he tried to conduct a separate mission last December.

Goldstone said he had made a direct approach to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to be able to enter Israel but had received no official response. He said he was aware of media reports last month that Israel did not plan to cooperate.

Note: these UN investigators in the article are both Jewish individuals from non-Arab nations.  The source of the story about Israel refusing to let them enter the Gaza to take testimony is Reuters another prominent news organization.http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LK937642.htm  Don't know which way they will rule but no-doubt if it is against Israel they will deny the impartiality of the panel members even when half are Jewish.