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Author Topic: Topless protest  (Read 22024 times)

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Coconut

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Re: Topless protest
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2009, 07:24:01 PM »

It seems that the "debaters" are all disagreeing, while the "doers" all support it. Hmm.

I guess I'm the exception.
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davann

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Re: Topless protest
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2009, 07:28:32 PM »

Can't the CIV/DIS folks come up with some better ideas? This idea is so old. After the feminists got the right to go topless in Toronto, very few females actually did it. It's been probably more than 10 years that Toronto has allowed women to go topless, and I have never seen any female go topless, and I don't know anyone who has. I imagine it only happens at the gay pride parades, and that's about it.

So then....what's all this about women wanting to actually do it, and then when they are allowed to do it....they still don't want to do it?!?!?!?

LOL.

Sad thing is that this just gives people another opportunity to call white guys names like "sexist", "racist", "homophobe" ....and what not. I find it interesting to see such name-calling within the liberty movement, and it makes me think the name callers are really, deep down, just a bunch of no class dirty hippies.

I actually did see a topless woman in Toronto when I was there a few years ago. Anyway, if it were legal, it would be very rare for me to take my shirt off, but there are definitely rare situations, particularly when it was really hot out, where it'd be nice to have the option.

Again, Germany might be your best option. Otherwise leave your shirt on, please. I'll leave mine on too.
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Rillion

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Re: Topless protest
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2009, 07:52:38 PM »

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Where do you draw the line at what is appropriate for other peoples children to see in a public park or comparable venue?
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I don't.  What children see is irrelevant to my standards about what people should and should not be allowed to do.   If you don't want your children to see something, it is your job to make sure they don't and not my job to avoid doing it.  

Wow, that is just retarded. So is BJs opinion. Of course there are things that parents do not wish their children to see and to do what ever feels good to you no matter if is appropriate for children would just make you an asshole not enlightened. There are community standards. If you want to go topless in the park move to fucking Germany.

You're calling me retarded, while in the same breath demanding that I either obey community standards or move to Germany?  I don't think I care to count how many levels of stupidity there are in that statement, considering that it was once a community standard in Germany to, you know, exterminate Jews. 

So I won't.  In short, I'll just say: Fuck community standards.   No amount of disapproving people can turn a harmless act into a harmful one.

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By your standards it would be fine for a couple that engages in golden showers to go ahead and bogey down in the park with children around.

No, because while urine is generally sterile it has the potential to carry certain diseases, thus endangering the general population-- child or otherwise. 

Sorry, but "I don't want my kid to see that" is not an argument on its own for outlawing any  behavior in others.  If you don't want your kid to witness something that doesn't harm anyone, that's your problem to deal with. 

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Euler

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Re: Topless protest
« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2009, 08:08:20 PM »

 I think when people go a "public" park, they have an expectation to not see topless women.

It depends on which people.  People in Germany, for example, do  have an expectation to see topless women in the park, because it's legal there (or it was, last I checked).  When it's warm, women like to sunbathe there topless.  I have very little regard for people's expectations as a barometer for what is okay and what isn't. 

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This is why there should be no such thing as public land.  It results in chaos. Everybody can make some claim that they are being offended by something. Right now, though, there is "public" land.  And I don't think it's unreasonable for some kind of rules to be set for its use.

Currently, the rules say that freedom of expression exists on public land.  Going topless, like any other choice about one's appearance, is a form of expression. 

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Where do you draw the line at what is appropriate for other peoples children to see in a public park or comparable venue?

I don't.  What children see is irrelevant to my standards about what people should and should not be allowed to do.   If you don't want your children to see something, it is your job to make sure they don't and not my job to avoid doing it. 

I wished you read what I wrote more carefully.  I didn't just say that what children might see affects my standards on what people should or shouldn't do.  I qualified it by saying in a public park or comparable venue.  So you are saying you can do anything non-criminal in a public park where children may be present and thats OK.  I also thought it was obvious that we were talking about a standard park in the United States.
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Rillion

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Re: Topless protest
« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2009, 08:58:48 PM »

I wished you read what I wrote more carefully.  I didn't just say that what children might see affects my standards on what people should or shouldn't do.  I qualified it by saying in a public park or comparable venue.  So you are saying you can do anything non-criminal in a public park where children may be present and thats OK.  I also thought it was obvious that we were talking about a standard park in the United States.

Yep, we are and yes I am. To put it bluntly: the presence of children does not make any difference, as far as I'm concerned, in terms of what it should be legal to do in public. 
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davann

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Re: Topless protest
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2009, 09:47:29 PM »


You're calling me retarded, while in the same breath demanding that I either obey community standards or move to Germany?  I don't think I care to count how many levels of stupidity there are in that statement, considering that it was once a community standard in Germany to, you know, exterminate Jews. 

So I won't.  In short, I'll just say: Fuck community standards.   No amount of disapproving people can turn a harmless act into a harmful one.

No, because while urine is generally sterile it has the potential to carry certain diseases, thus endangering the general population-- child or otherwise. 

Sorry, but "I don't want my kid to see that" is not an argument on its own for outlawing any  behavior in others.  If you don't want your kid to witness something that doesn't harm anyone, that's your problem to deal with. 



I'm not calling you personally retarded. Just this current line of thinking which is actually unusual for you. We all agree consensual acts that do not harm others should not be outlawed. It is the community standards that you seem so willing to disregard that bothers me. I don't get this alienation mentality. It is clear most of are already in a sub culture already. Square pegs in round holes. Why make it worse with acts that are not socially acceptable. This is where the topless protest breaks down. I thought CD was about getting the community to see the tyranny of the system.  All this is going to do is make the old married men happy and really piss off their fat wives who in turn will bitch and moan about it so much the men will eventually turn against it also.

Another point, killing Jews was not a community standard for most of the people in Germany at any point in time. This isn't even a good comparison since this involves acts that are harmful to others. Those types of acts of course should be acted against.

Since you did not like the golden showers  :D ...example, how about a couple fucking in the park for all to see?
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blackie

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Re: Topless protest
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2009, 10:00:16 PM »

If a dog can piss at the park, I should be able to piss at the park.
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BonerJoe

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Re: Topless protest
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2009, 10:24:09 PM »

which is sort of like a drunk guy at a party ready to fight everybody. This mentality is encapsulated with a type of , "Fuck you....I'll do whatever I want.....what are you going to do about it?" slogan.

I swear, every time some libertarian wants to actually DO something libertarian in public, all the asshats have to come out and give their opinion that you're gonna fuck everything up for them. THERE AIN'T NOTHING TO FUCK UP. There's no precious free fuckin' society out there.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 10:26:21 PM by BonerJoe »
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spicynujac

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Re: Topless protest
« Reply #53 on: July 30, 2009, 11:24:54 PM »

Awful lot of prudes and control freaks for a libertarian forum...
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davann

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Re: Topless protest
« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2009, 11:41:13 PM »

Awful lot of prudes and control freaks for a libertarian forum...

Libertarianism is not equal to hedonism. One can be a libertarian and a hedonist or one can be a libertarian and a "prude". Not sure what you mean by control freak. I see none of that in any of the posts.

If libertarians are unable to govern themselves in a manner acceptable to social norms then how are they going to convince anyone it is the right way to live?
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BonerJoe

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Re: Topless protest
« Reply #55 on: July 31, 2009, 12:27:35 AM »

If libertarians are unable to govern themselves in a manner acceptable to social norms then how are they going to convince anyone it is the right way to live?

LOL, convince...
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Rillion

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Re: Topless protest
« Reply #56 on: July 31, 2009, 01:29:18 AM »

We all agree consensual acts that do not harm others should not be outlawed.

Great; then there is no disagreement. 
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Bill Brasky

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Re: Topless protest
« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2009, 01:43:02 AM »

Topless women in public is hardly where I'd draw the line of acceptable public behavior.  Grow the fuck up.  Its just tits, who fuckin' cares? 

I absolutely think there should be some lines of community standards, but I don't think tits are one of them.  If your kids aren't shocked and/or mentally scarred when a man is shirtless, why should it be any different for a woman?

The people who skip from this directly to public fucking are mentally challenged.   
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Evil Muppet

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Re: Topless protest
« Reply #58 on: July 31, 2009, 03:32:43 AM »

What I think is funny is that people get more upset about the possibility of kids seeing a set of boobs than they will at gross depictions  of violence on television.  You can show endless streams of gratuatous violence, death, torture and other barbarities and no one bats an eye but you show one fucking nipple at the Superbowl and there is a goddamned melt down.  God forbid you show some tits in public.   

Or maybe if it was black, saggy and has a chicken bone through her nose it would be ok.
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Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

freeAgent

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Re: Topless protest
« Reply #59 on: July 31, 2009, 07:21:20 AM »

I do not understand why people think that women need to keep their shirts on "for the children".  There is absolutely nothing about female breasts that is harmful to children.  Are they forgetting that women use their breasts to feed babies?  It's nothing they haven't seen before.
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