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Author Topic: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.  (Read 22544 times)

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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2012, 11:39:19 PM »

Also, his anger about free people living freely is very sad.  How can he expect others to show tolerance to people who want to live differently if he himself can't do that?

You honestly don't get it?  It's not about the activism.  It's about BROADCASTING BAD ACTIVISM CHOICES all over the world, making liberty lovers look like those people the state warned them about.  People who haven't "figured it out" already aren't going to be persuaded by that stuff.

It's only your opinion that the activism is bad.

No, it's not just MY opinion.  It's the opinion of most people who were just like you were--or most likely, Mark was--ten or twelve years ago.  Turn them off with your message and they become less receptive to the overall message, and congratulations, you've done more harm than good.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.
« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2012, 03:38:01 AM »

Being somewhat of an "outsider" to outside the system activism, can someone point me to a single law that has been repealed, or changed for the better, because of it?

I know Denis has given part of his sides resume, but hows the other sides score-card?

Just curious is all. Not trying to stir shit.

Why is success judged by laws being repealed?  How about the new people that are attracted here because they like that people are doing things besides begging politicians?  I call that a success.

Good luck making a feature-length documentary about what goes on in the state house in Concord.  Derrick J's activism alone in 2011-2012 is making for a kick-ass film:

Derrick J's Victimless Crime Spree - Trailer
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2012, 03:39:42 AM »

Notice how Denis and WTFK ignore the fact that FK activism has support in this community (Keene).

I'm grateful for everyone that sees the value in controversy.

That's irrelevant.  What matters is how many people on the RADIO you're hardening to persuasion.

Geez, worry much?

What, you don't think calling the military "paid killers" isn't "hardening people to persuasion"?

I'm not looking to recruit everyone.  Just enough. 

Good luck with doing a show that aims to please everyone!   :lol: :lol: :lol:
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2012, 03:45:12 AM »

No.  First off, this isn't about smoking pot.

Sure it is - to some people the pot smoking downtown was a negative.  To others it was topless tuesday.  To others it was the crossing guard thing.  Other people liked those things.  Some liked some, disliked others.

We're doing stuff.  Of course people won't like it. 

Quote
 A good example is the town hall drinking game (or whatever.)  It was intended to piss people off.  It's not so much the miscalculation of the effects of that activism though--it's the absolute failure of common sense required to actually put that shit on the air.  People who do NOT understand are going to dig in, and it will make persuasion all that much more difficult.

No, actually it wasn't intended to do that at all.  It was intended to bring forward the issue of the open container ordinance and actually make city council meetings fun!  Who are you to know what the intentions were?  You didn't plan it or execute it.

If you want a show that only talks about political stuff, go watch NH Capitol Access.  My show is intended to entertain and inform.
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2012, 10:05:55 AM »

Being somewhat of an "outsider" to outside the system activism, can someone point me to a single law that has been repealed, or changed for the better, because of it?

I know Denis has given part of his sides resume, but hows the other sides score-card?

Just curious is all. Not trying to stir shit.

Why is success judged by laws being repealed?  How about the new people that are attracted here because they like that people are doing things besides begging politicians?  I call that a success.

Good luck making a feature-length documentary about what goes on in the state house in Concord.  Derrick J's activism alone in 2011-2012 is making for a kick-ass film:

Derrick J's Victimless Crime Spree - Trailer

This shows your fundamental disconnect on this issue.  You blabbed on the radio that you can't control when Derrek calls in or some crap like that.  The fact is, you're pimping his activism, most of which has been bad choices that makes it hard to persuade liberty lovers who come from a less than principled stance.  Yet you pretend, when it's convenient, that you're not.  Do you have a screw or six loose or something?
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.
« Reply #50 on: June 02, 2012, 10:06:56 AM »

Notice how Denis and WTFK ignore the fact that FK activism has support in this community (Keene).

I'm grateful for everyone that sees the value in controversy.

That's irrelevant.  What matters is how many people on the RADIO you're hardening to persuasion.

Geez, worry much?

What, you don't think calling the military "paid killers" isn't "hardening people to persuasion"?

I'm not looking to recruit everyone.  Just enough. 

Good luck with doing a show that aims to please everyone!   :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't think that's a bright idea either.
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.
« Reply #51 on: June 02, 2012, 10:19:55 AM »

No.  First off, this isn't about smoking pot.

Sure it is - to some people the pot smoking downtown was a negative.  To others it was topless tuesday.  To others it was the crossing guard thing.  Other people liked those things.  Some liked some, disliked others.

We're doing stuff.  Of course people won't like it.  

Quote
A good example is the town hall drinking game (or whatever.)  It was intended to piss people off.  It's not so much the miscalculation of the effects of that activism though--it's the absolute failure of common sense required to actually put that shit on the air.  People who do NOT understand are going to dig in, and it will make persuasion all that much more difficult.

No, actually it wasn't intended to do that at all.  It was intended to bring forward the issue of the open container ordinance and actually make city council meetings fun!  Who are you to know what the intentions were?  You didn't plan it or execute it.

If you want a show that only talks about political stuff, go watch NH Capitol Access.  My show is intended to entertain and inform.

"Of course people won't like" when you're doing things to DELIBERATELY piss people off.  The reason civil disobedience works is because more people agree with the disobedient than the "authorities."  When that's not true, you LOSE.

It was intended to "bring forward the issue of the open container ordinance" by pissing people off.  This was obvious.  I didn't have to be part of the planning to know that.  If it wasn't calculated to piss people off, it wouldn't have been a stunt at all.  

I NEVER indicated it was about politics, because it's not.  This is about your asinine promotion of activism which does more to piss people off than persuade them that the state is the aggressor--the whole POINT of civil disobedience.

You vacillate all the time about what the show is for.  When you want AMP money, it's about the libertarian outreach.  When you want it to be about your stupid stunts you say it's about entertainment.  This comes full circle to what the COMPLAINTS are about.  Many, probably most, AMPlifiers want their contributions to further the cause of libertarian persuasion.  When you're tossing 55-gallon drums of benzene into the water supply, you're making that pretty fucking hard.

I don't think it can be made any more clearly.  Take the last word.  You will anyway, and you'll misrepresent on the radio/podcast what people have told you there their concerns are anyway, because it's all about how you get your kicks, apparently.  My AMP money wasn't committed for you to get your kicks.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 10:23:07 AM by What's the frequency, Kenneth? »
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alaric89

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Re: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.
« Reply #52 on: June 02, 2012, 11:37:47 AM »

Ian is the type of person who would probably listen to a non AMP more then a AMP.
With that said, I support LRN, the FTL staff and this sweet message board with my 20 bucks a month. I consider it good use of my money.
I almost quite once because I had had enough of Shaw, but true to form Ian told me to fuck off.* I don't think he even bothered to read what I was bitching about. Ian doesn't knife his peeps in the back.... period. I kind of respect that, even though it is annoying as hell. I would have questioned my people over pissing off a paying customer, but I will admit I would love to have Ian as a boss. Even so the most I would have done was quite in a blaze of glory here and start sending the exact same amount to the LRN tip jar.
I thought the Derrick running from the cops on a bike was pretty funny. I think sexy women in airports giving out reading material is a great thing. I'll bet those things wouldn't make a lick of difference to somebody on the fence I was talking to about freedom, it would barely be a blip in the conversation.

BTW Denis could you please start posting links to your show? I really want to watch your interview with the SL&A girls but I can't find it.

* I am of course paraphrasing for comedic effect. Ian's emails are in fact quite professional.

dalebert

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Re: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.
« Reply #53 on: June 02, 2012, 12:03:17 PM »

The idea of the 20,000 was just to attract voters...

Sorens made it pretty clear that just voting would not be near enough for 20,000 to make a difference. He pictured 20,000 very politically active people.

Sorry. I just feel like I need to clarify whenever I see this being repeated. It happens regularly.

theodorelogan

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Re: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.
« Reply #54 on: June 02, 2012, 12:07:30 PM »

Quote
This is about your asinine promotion of activism which does more to piss people off than persuade them that the state is the aggressor--the whole POINT of civil disobedience.

Seems like the drinking game's purpose was, precisely, to show people that the state is the aggressor.
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Go figure...

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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.
« Reply #55 on: June 02, 2012, 01:34:34 PM »

Quote
This is about your asinine promotion of activism which does more to piss people off than persuade them that the state is the aggressor--the whole POINT of civil disobedience.

Seems like the drinking game's purpose was, precisely, to show people that the state is the aggressor.

...yeah...by crashing their party and tricking them into believing you're breaking their rules...right...at best, that's passive-aggressive....
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theodorelogan

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Re: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.
« Reply #56 on: June 02, 2012, 03:00:57 PM »

You'd have to ask the people who partook in it whether they were being passive aggressive (hint: you weren't one of them.)  Didn't seem passive-aggressive to me.  To me, it seemed more like they wanted to show people how far the state will go to enforce the silliest of their edicts.  I think it made that point beautifully.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.
« Reply #57 on: June 02, 2012, 03:24:27 PM »

So basically WTFK you want to have a radio show that will try its hardest not to offend any listeners - good luck with that.  If you actually do create it, it will be the most boring, unopinionated, milquetoast program to ever exist.

The show is about both entertainment and spreading ideas of liberty.  If the show isn't entertaining, no one will listen to the ideas.

Considering we get people calling to tell us they have changed their minds, as just happened this week - seems like we're doing a fine job. 

Controversy is by nature polarizing.  I want the people who are attracted to courageous activism.  We need courageous people to stand up for their rights.  The state will not die without courage and risk.  Begging ain't gonna cut it.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.
« Reply #58 on: June 02, 2012, 03:50:22 PM »

Also, if you are concerned I will misrepresent your opinions on air, you are welcome to call and express them personally.  Maybe you can convince the AMPlifiers to follow Denis' lead and show me just how bad FTL truly is for the liberty movement. 
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mport1

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Re: Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2012, 06:47:35 PM »

After supporting FK financially, I've come to the same conclusion as many others that much of the FK activism will not be effective in achieving the end goal of liberty.  I don't think anybody here will be able to convince Ian of this though.  Many people have presented a lot of valid arguments against this type of activism, but he has rejected them.

I think he and some other FK activists are missing a crucial point in their line of thinking.  Just because you are engaging in activism that is completely moral and just does not mean that you are furthering the end goal of achieving a voluntary society.  There seems to be an idea that because all of the activism that has been performed in accordance with the NAP, that it is all great in advancing the cause of liberty and shouldn't be criticized.  Or there is the notion that because some people are going to get upset no matter what, you shouldn't judge or plan activism with public perception in mind.

However, civil disobedience, while completely right and moral, by itself does not necessarily advance the cause and may actually set it back.  Effective activism must take into account public perception to some extent if you want more people to embrace the ideas of liberty.  There is obviously no hard and fast rule about what is "good" vs. "bad" civil disobedience, but I don't think these questions are seriously considered by many of the activists.

Free Talk Live is still invaluable to the liberty movement though.  It gets the ideas of liberty out there to a huge number of people and attracts many people to the FSP.  It is a huge net benefit for the liberty movement.  I AMP at $50 a month and hope to up this in the future.  If you disagree with Ian on FK activism, don't let that dissuade you from AMPing.  In my opinion, FTL does a ton of good and is one of the best things to fund in the liberty movement.
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