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cavalier973

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Re: The Tunisian revolt spreads to Egypt
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2011, 11:37:08 PM »

http://sarthanapalos.wordpress.com/2011/01/31/a-guide-how-not-to-say-stupid-stuff-about-egypt/

"The past few days I have heard so many stupid things from friends, blogs, pundits, correspondents, politicians, experts, writers that I want to pull my hair.  So, I will not beat around the bush, I will be really blunt and give you a handy list to keep you from offending Egyptians, Arabs and the world when you discuss, blog or talk about Egypt.  Honestly, I would think most Progressives would know these things, but let’s get to it."

and the article continues....
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Andy

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Re: The Tunisian revolt spreads to Egypt
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2011, 01:01:18 AM »

Quote
    * “Mubarak kept the peace treaty”: So, what do you think, if the Egyptian people choose another government, they will go to war with Israel?  Maybe they will demand a few more things from Israel in how they negotiate with the Palestinians.  Maybe Gazans will get better treatment?  Maybe the balance of power will not be tipped over to Israel?  Egypt protests: Israel fears unrest may threaten peace treaty.   Hmm, so we should support the oppression of 80 million Egyptians for a false stabilization?

    * “If they get Democracy they will elect extremists”.  Imagine if the world said that about America.  The Tea Party threatens world stability, as did the Bush administration.  How would you like if others used that as a threat to support an autocrat who made all opposing parties illegal?  In truth, US politics threaten world stability more than Egypt does.  Second, the implication is that democracy is not to be trusted in the hands of “certain” nations, people and religions is offensive, racist and ignorant.  You do not claim to value human rights, democracy and freedom and then you make exclusions based on race, nationality and religion.  Don’t say this shit.

Those aren't self evidently stupid things to say, at least not in the same league as the rest.

voodoo

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Re: The Tunisian revolt spreads to Egypt
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2011, 01:54:31 AM »

Quote
    * “Mubarak kept the peace treaty”: So, what do you think, if the Egyptian people choose another government, they will go to war with Israel?  Maybe they will demand a few more things from Israel in how they negotiate with the Palestinians.  Maybe Gazans will get better treatment?  Maybe the balance of power will not be tipped over to Israel?  Egypt protests: Israel fears unrest may threaten peace treaty.   Hmm, so we should support the oppression of 80 million Egyptians for a false stabilization?

    * “If they get Democracy they will elect extremists”.  Imagine if the world said that about America.  The Tea Party threatens world stability, as did the Bush administration.  How would you like if others used that as a threat to support an autocrat who made all opposing parties illegal?  In truth, US politics threaten world stability more than Egypt does.  Second, the implication is that democracy is not to be trusted in the hands of “certain” nations, people and religions is offensive, racist and ignorant.  You do not claim to value human rights, democracy and freedom and then you make exclusions based on race, nationality and religion.  Don’t say this shit.

Those aren't self evidently stupid things to say, at least not in the same league as the rest.

Yes they are.  In the past week a lot of motivations have been foisted on Egyptians.  I haven't heard anyone actually on the ground say anything but, "Mubarak must go."  Note, that is very different from, "Mubarak must be replaced."

Terrorcrats are falling all over themselves to get in front of this bandwagon, but they don't (or refuse to) understand that it is hundreds of thousands of people standing in the cradle of civilization clamoring for the evolution.
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: The Tunisian revolt spreads to Egypt
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2011, 04:40:12 AM »

Quote
    * “Mubarak kept the peace treaty”: So, what do you think, if the Egyptian people choose another government, they will go to war with Israel?  Maybe they will demand a few more things from Israel in how they negotiate with the Palestinians.  Maybe Gazans will get better treatment?  Maybe the balance of power will not be tipped over to Israel?  Egypt protests: Israel fears unrest may threaten peace treaty.   Hmm, so we should support the oppression of 80 million Egyptians for a false stabilization?

    * “If they get Democracy they will elect extremists”.  Imagine if the world said that about America.  The Tea Party threatens world stability, as did the Bush administration.  How would you like if others used that as a threat to support an autocrat who made all opposing parties illegal?  In truth, US politics threaten world stability more than Egypt does.  Second, the implication is that democracy is not to be trusted in the hands of “certain” nations, people and religions is offensive, racist and ignorant.  You do not claim to value human rights, democracy and freedom and then you make exclusions based on race, nationality and religion.  Don’t say this shit.

Those aren't self evidently stupid things to say, at least not in the same league as the rest.

Yes they are.  In the past week a lot of motivations have been foisted on Egyptians.  I haven't heard anyone actually on the ground say anything but, "Mubarak must go."  Note, that is very different from, "Mubarak must be replaced."

Terrorcrats are falling all over themselves to get in front of this bandwagon, but they don't (or refuse to) understand that it is hundreds of thousands of people standing in the cradle of civilization clamoring for the evolution.
you just said a whole lot of nothing
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voodoo

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Re: The Tunisian revolt spreads to Egypt
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2011, 12:37:56 PM »

Quote
    * “Mubarak kept the peace treaty”: So, what do you think, if the Egyptian people choose another government, they will go to war with Israel?  Maybe they will demand a few more things from Israel in how they negotiate with the Palestinians.  Maybe Gazans will get better treatment?  Maybe the balance of power will not be tipped over to Israel?  Egypt protests: Israel fears unrest may threaten peace treaty.   Hmm, so we should support the oppression of 80 million Egyptians for a false stabilization?

    * “If they get Democracy they will elect extremists”.  Imagine if the world said that about America.  The Tea Party threatens world stability, as did the Bush administration.  How would you like if others used that as a threat to support an autocrat who made all opposing parties illegal?  In truth, US politics threaten world stability more than Egypt does.  Second, the implication is that democracy is not to be trusted in the hands of “certain” nations, people and religions is offensive, racist and ignorant.  You do not claim to value human rights, democracy and freedom and then you make exclusions based on race, nationality and religion.  Don’t say this shit.

Those aren't self evidently stupid things to say, at least not in the same league as the rest.

Yes they are.  In the past week a lot of motivations have been foisted on Egyptians.  I haven't heard anyone actually on the ground say anything but, "Mubarak must go."  Note, that is very different from, "Mubarak must be replaced."

Terrorcrats are falling all over themselves to get in front of this bandwagon, but they don't (or refuse to) understand that it is hundreds of thousands of people standing in the cradle of civilization clamoring for the evolution.
you just said a whole lot of nothing

Next time I will use small words, just for you. ;-)
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Andy

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Re: The Tunisian revolt spreads to Egypt
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2011, 10:14:38 PM »

Quote
    * “Mubarak kept the peace treaty”: So, what do you think, if the Egyptian people choose another government, they will go to war with Israel?  Maybe they will demand a few more things from Israel in how they negotiate with the Palestinians.  Maybe Gazans will get better treatment?  Maybe the balance of power will not be tipped over to Israel?  Egypt protests: Israel fears unrest may threaten peace treaty.   Hmm, so we should support the oppression of 80 million Egyptians for a false stabilization?

    * “If they get Democracy they will elect extremists”.  Imagine if the world said that about America.  The Tea Party threatens world stability, as did the Bush administration.  How would you like if others used that as a threat to support an autocrat who made all opposing parties illegal?  In truth, US politics threaten world stability more than Egypt does.  Second, the implication is that democracy is not to be trusted in the hands of “certain” nations, people and religions is offensive, racist and ignorant.  You do not claim to value human rights, democracy and freedom and then you make exclusions based on race, nationality and religion.  Don’t say this shit.

Those aren't self evidently stupid things to say, at least not in the same league as the rest.

Yes they are.  In the past week a lot of motivations have been foisted on Egyptians.  I haven't heard anyone actually on the ground say anything but, "Mubarak must go."  Note, that is very different from, "Mubarak must be replaced."

Terrorcrats are falling all over themselves to get in front of this bandwagon, but they don't (or refuse to) understand that it is hundreds of thousands of people standing in the cradle of civilization clamoring for the evolution.
you just said a whole lot of nothing

Next time I will use small words, just for you. ;-)

Your second paragraph was a whole lot of nothing, the first one was just wrong, "Mubarak must go" just means "we haven't decided who we want to replace him with", not "ooh, we are suddenly flowery anarchist types for no discernable reason."

Ecolitan

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Re: The Tunisian revolt spreads to Egypt
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2011, 10:28:34 PM »

Agreed.  I've seen no evidence whatsoever that any individual in Egypt is an anarchist.  I'm sure there's a couple.
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Pizzly

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Re: The Tunisian revolt spreads to Egypt
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2011, 11:17:43 PM »

I'm sure this will turn into a French Revolution type event. There is potential for alot of good, but it's all gonna be thrown to shit with an even worse ruler.
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voodoo

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Re: The Tunisian revolt spreads to Egypt
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2011, 12:13:21 AM »

Quote
    * “Mubarak kept the peace treaty”: So, what do you think, if the Egyptian people choose another government, they will go to war with Israel?  Maybe they will demand a few more things from Israel in how they negotiate with the Palestinians.  Maybe Gazans will get better treatment?  Maybe the balance of power will not be tipped over to Israel?  Egypt protests: Israel fears unrest may threaten peace treaty.   Hmm, so we should support the oppression of 80 million Egyptians for a false stabilization?

    * “If they get Democracy they will elect extremists”.  Imagine if the world said that about America.  The Tea Party threatens world stability, as did the Bush administration.  How would you like if others used that as a threat to support an autocrat who made all opposing parties illegal?  In truth, US politics threaten world stability more than Egypt does.  Second, the implication is that democracy is not to be trusted in the hands of “certain” nations, people and religions is offensive, racist and ignorant.  You do not claim to value human rights, democracy and freedom and then you make exclusions based on race, nationality and religion.  Don’t say this shit.

Those aren't self evidently stupid things to say, at least not in the same league as the rest.

Yes they are.  In the past week a lot of motivations have been foisted on Egyptians.  I haven't heard anyone actually on the ground say anything but, "Mubarak must go."  Note, that is very different from, "Mubarak must be replaced."

Terrorcrats are falling all over themselves to get in front of this bandwagon, but they don't (or refuse to) understand that it is hundreds of thousands of people standing in the cradle of civilization clamoring for the evolution.
you just said a whole lot of nothing

Next time I will use small words, just for you. ;-)

Your second paragraph was a whole lot of nothing, the first one was just wrong, "Mubarak must go" just means "we haven't decided who we want to replace him with", not "ooh, we are suddenly flowery anarchist types for no discernable reason."

How wild that you can discern the intentions of millions based on feelings contrary to their statements.  Randi will give you $1M to demonstrate that.  Just remember who told you when it comes to the finder's fee.
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voodoo

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Re: The Tunisian revolt spreads to Egypt
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2011, 12:15:09 AM »

Agreed.  I've seen no evidence whatsoever that any individual in Egypt is an anarchist.  I'm sure there's a couple.

What would you accept as evidence?
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Ecolitan

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Re: The Tunisian revolt spreads to Egypt
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2011, 01:06:27 AM »

Someone stating it explicitly.  It's reasonable to believe there are some anarchists in Egypt.  It's not reasonable to believe the majority or even more then 1% of the people in the street in Egypt are anarchists when that's not the case anywhere else in the world.  No doubt they want their current government gone.  Of that we can be sure.
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anarchir

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Re: The Tunisian revolt spreads to Egypt
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2011, 01:12:28 AM »

I read they might want some protest leader guy to be next, but I think that was just postulating on the behalf of the media. Who knows if the guy will even survive the protests anyway.
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Re: The Tunisian revolt spreads to Egypt
« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2011, 10:13:22 AM »

Odds that these people will come come to the conclusion "Hey, you know what? We dont need a ruler or a leader, well do just fine governing ourselves." ?


Zero %

Kinda makes the whole discussion about whats happening there pointless doesnt it?


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libertylover

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Re: The Tunisian revolt spreads to Egypt
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2011, 01:50:22 PM »

Doubtful it will be an anarchist revolt.

Mubarak seems to have been kept in power due to the involvement of the US to the detriment of the Egyptian people.  It has to be acknowledged that it is the fault of USA foreign policy which helped to maintain the Mubarak dictatorship.  Rather than pressuring for democratic republic mostly due to fears about how the Egyptian people would vote.

All the corruption has created a larger problem than how a secular Egypt would have voted on various issues over the past few decades.  Once the people reach a breaking point the change will be far more unpredictable and violent.
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LTKoblinsky

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Re: The Tunisian revolt spreads to Egypt
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2011, 07:11:45 PM »

Among the protester demands:
Life
Liberty
Dignity
Higher Minimum Wage
End to rocketing food prices

...

Whoever foisted those last few on there should facepalm themselves..
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