The True Price of Air Travel

[Diogenes The Cynic]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20101215/ap_tr_ge/us_travel_brief_fixing_airlines;_ylt=AomtE3DjceTTLtYwMd9QZTTjOrgF;_ylu=X3oDMTQ1bWIxMmJ0BGFzc2V0Ay9zL2FwX3RyYXZlbC8yMDEwMTIxNS9hcF90cl9nZS91c190cmF2ZWxfYnJpZWZfZml4aW5nX2FpcmxpbmVzBGNjb2RlA2dtcGNlYm5iZQRjcG9zAzQEcG9zAzQEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNwYW5lbHRhY2tsZXM-


We all know that having the government sticking their hand into the cookie jar makes air travel costs not reflect reality. One thing I realized is that the frequent bailouts, government money for free, and subsidized safety cause the price of tickets to be unnaturally low.

The poor subsidize air travel for the rich and middle class, and without this system in place, air travel in America would be totally different. It would end up like an inverse Laffer curve as ticket prices going up would place travel out of the affordability of many Americans, causing a second ripple of price hikes.

What are your thoughts?

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

There are multiple factors involved here.  Gov't regulations vs. Gov't subsidies.  One incurs great cost, and the other reduces the cost at the consumer level.

[Andy]

Then I guess there's a third factor in goverment subsidies for alternatives to air travel.

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Also the fact that the govt has regulated out airlines that could be in the market to further compete with existing airlines further driving prices down

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Oh yeah also taxes on fuel and regulation in the fuel industry that also prop prices up

[Diogenes The Cynic]

Those things already factor in! I meant stuff like outside of regular taxes.

[Osborne]

The inefficiencies of bureaucracy and regulation cause air travel to cost more than it rightfully should. If you fly enough regionally, you could buy your own plane for what you are spending with the airlines, and save yourself the TSA rape and scheduling headaches. If it were legal, you could also hire your buddy or non-buddy to fly you around.

[Diogenes The Cynic]

The inefficiencies of bureaucracy and regulation cause air travel to cost more than it rightfully should. If you fly enough regionally, you could buy your own plane for what you are spending with the airlines, and save yourself the TSA rape and scheduling headaches. If it were legal, you could also hire your buddy or non-buddy to fly you around.

No way dude. If it weren't for massive subsidies, I don't think most domestic carriers could exist. This is the opposite of the case we've seen in the past. Its the poor subsidizing stuff for the middle-class.

[John Shaw]

THE BUREAUCRACY IS EXPANDING TO MEET THE NEEDS OF THE EXPANDING BUREAUCRACY.

THAT IS ALL.

[Osborne]

This is just not possible. Are you saying that it is not more efficient to carry hundreds of people in a jet than to pilot oneself around in a piston aircraft?

Yes, subsidies going away = high ticket prices. Regulations going away = much lower prices.

Yes, taxpayers are subsidizing airlines. Since the poor aren't paying taxes, the poor are not the ones subsidizing the airlines.

[Diogenes The Cynic]

This is just not possible. Are you saying that it is not more efficient to carry hundreds of people in a jet than to pilot oneself around in a piston aircraft?

Yes, subsidies going away = high ticket prices. Regulations going away = much lower prices.

Yes, taxpayers are subsidizing airlines. Since the poor aren't paying taxes, the poor are not the ones subsidizing the airlines.

It could be. The massive subsidies let a lot of people afford flight they otherwise might not have ever been able to use. Without the subsidies, many working class people wouldn't have flown, and the money would have been in smaller aircraft, and not jumbo jets.

I dunno, I would believe the poor are kicking in for airports. That part is done through city governments.

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

This is just not possible. Are you saying that it is not more efficient to carry hundreds of people in a jet than to pilot oneself around in a piston aircraft?

Yes, subsidies going away = high ticket prices. Regulations going away = much lower prices.

Yes, taxpayers are subsidizing airlines. Since the poor aren't paying taxes, the poor are not the ones subsidizing the airlines.

It could be. The massive subsidies let a lot of people afford flight they otherwise might not have ever been able to use. Without the subsidies, many working class people wouldn't have flown, and the money would have been in smaller aircraft, and not jumbo jets.

I dunno, I would believe the poor are kicking in for airports. That part is done through city governments.

Yeah but the regulations on the airlines are insane.  I know a few pilots and they have to do a LOT of training that even they say is probably unnecessary.  They talk about the unions and the out of control bureaucracy mandated by the government, and I'm sure there are tons of government mandated paperpushers who are collecting money from the private airlines but doing literally nothing productive.  If it wasn't for the regulations, there would be far more airlines competing with each other, as well as more airports.  Perhaps there would be more smaller passenger jets, who's to say, but I'm sure it would be cheaper and more pervasive if there was less regulation.

[Diogenes The Cynic]

This is just not possible. Are you saying that it is not more efficient to carry hundreds of people in a jet than to pilot oneself around in a piston aircraft?

Yes, subsidies going away = high ticket prices. Regulations going away = much lower prices.

Yes, taxpayers are subsidizing airlines. Since the poor aren't paying taxes, the poor are not the ones subsidizing the airlines.

It could be. The massive subsidies let a lot of people afford flight they otherwise might not have ever been able to use. Without the subsidies, many working class people wouldn't have flown, and the money would have been in smaller aircraft, and not jumbo jets.

I dunno, I would believe the poor are kicking in for airports. That part is done through city governments.

Yeah but the regulations on the airlines are insane.  I know a few pilots and they have to do a LOT of training that even they say is probably unnecessary.  They talk about the unions and the out of control bureaucracy mandated by the government, and I'm sure there are tons of government mandated paperpushers who are collecting money from the private airlines but doing literally nothing productive.  If it wasn't for the regulations, there would be far more airlines competing with each other, as well as more airports.  Perhaps there would be more smaller passenger jets, who's to say, but I'm sure it would be cheaper and more pervasive if there was less regulation.

Who's the guy that's gonna drop a billion for a new airport in a city center?

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

This is just not possible. Are you saying that it is not more efficient to carry hundreds of people in a jet than to pilot oneself around in a piston aircraft?

Yes, subsidies going away = high ticket prices. Regulations going away = much lower prices.

Yes, taxpayers are subsidizing airlines. Since the poor aren't paying taxes, the poor are not the ones subsidizing the airlines.

It could be. The massive subsidies let a lot of people afford flight they otherwise might not have ever been able to use. Without the subsidies, many working class people wouldn't have flown, and the money would have been in smaller aircraft, and not jumbo jets.

I dunno, I would believe the poor are kicking in for airports. That part is done through city governments.

Yeah but the regulations on the airlines are insane.  I know a few pilots and they have to do a LOT of training that even they say is probably unnecessary.  They talk about the unions and the out of control bureaucracy mandated by the government, and I'm sure there are tons of government mandated paperpushers who are collecting money from the private airlines but doing literally nothing productive.  If it wasn't for the regulations, there would be far more airlines competing with each other, as well as more airports.  Perhaps there would be more smaller passenger jets, who's to say, but I'm sure it would be cheaper and more pervasive if there was less regulation.

Who's the guy that's gonna drop a billion for a new airport in a city center?

Lots of places that can get airports for a lot less than that outside of city centers.

[Diogenes The Cynic]

This is just not possible. Are you saying that it is not more efficient to carry hundreds of people in a jet than to pilot oneself around in a piston aircraft?

Yes, subsidies going away = high ticket prices. Regulations going away = much lower prices.

Yes, taxpayers are subsidizing airlines. Since the poor aren't paying taxes, the poor are not the ones subsidizing the airlines.

It could be. The massive subsidies let a lot of people afford flight they otherwise might not have ever been able to use. Without the subsidies, many working class people wouldn't have flown, and the money would have been in smaller aircraft, and not jumbo jets.

I dunno, I would believe the poor are kicking in for airports. That part is done through city governments.

Yeah but the regulations on the airlines are insane.  I know a few pilots and they have to do a LOT of training that even they say is probably unnecessary.  They talk about the unions and the out of control bureaucracy mandated by the government, and I'm sure there are tons of government mandated paperpushers who are collecting money from the private airlines but doing literally nothing productive.  If it wasn't for the regulations, there would be far more airlines competing with each other, as well as more airports.  Perhaps there would be more smaller passenger jets, who's to say, but I'm sure it would be cheaper and more pervasive if there was less regulation.

Who's the guy that's gonna drop a billion for a new airport in a city center?

Lots of places that can get airports for a lot less than that outside of city centers.

People in L.A. bitch and moan about going to Long Beach to catch a flight instead of LAX.

Bigger problem is, how would any corporation take on that much risk? They're generally extremely risk averse.