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Author Topic: The problem with cheating in the FSP movement  (Read 4849 times)

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ForumTroll

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The problem with cheating in the FSP movement
« on: April 06, 2010, 07:15:23 PM »

Why is there so much infidelity? I don't get it. People holding libertarian views should be able to trust each other and not lie. WTF?
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sillyperson

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Re: The problem with cheating in the FSP movement
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2010, 07:31:10 PM »

There's almost 1,000 people. Out of any random population sample that big, I'd be surprised if there was less than 5-10 people getting OPP

davann

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Re: The problem with cheating in the FSP movement
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2010, 07:32:20 PM »

People tend to say one thing and do the exact opposite. Always be leery of those that verbally claim they can be trusted.  
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BobRobertson

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Re: The problem with cheating in the FSP movement
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2010, 08:55:43 AM »

Infidelity is a normal part of human nature.

Males are driven to spread their genes as widely as possible.

Females seek the best provider for their children, and at the same time they "hedge their bets" by keeping an eye out for available genes that might be better at surviving than the ones they already have access to.

What I would like to see is a lot less hypocrisy about it. That would cut down on "infidelity", since there would not be the assumption of "fidelity" in the first place.

For example, why not "baby contracts"? I hereby contract with (insert lady's name here) for one baby paternity assured, additional babies if paternity matches.

And if paternity doesn't match? Not _my_ financial problem.

Interesting idea, no?
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DontTreadOnMike

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Re: The problem with cheating in the FSP movement
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2010, 09:42:11 AM »

Why? Was there another one or something?
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BobRobertson

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Re: The problem with cheating in the FSP movement
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2010, 11:26:03 AM »

Why? Was there another one or something?

Yes, the present legal framework says, by default, "the husband is the father" unless or until the husband goes to extraordinary measures to disprove it.

I believe this comes from the "Puritan" origins of America. Bastardy was considered a "sin", so no one talked about it. There was, I've read, still a 25% illegitimacy rate from the start of the North American colonies, although how the researchers figured that one out  I can't say.

So the authoritarian Puritans set the stage, as it were, for the Blue Laws, the hiding of bastardy rather than its simple acceptance, etc. The US has always been far more "Victorian" in its attitudes toward sex than pretty much anyone else, even the Victorians.
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"I regret that I am now to die in the belief that the useless sacrifice of themselves by the generation of 1776 to acquire self-government and happiness to their country is to be thrown away by the unwise and unworthy passions of their sons, and that my only consolation is to be that I live not to weep over it."
-- Thomas Jefferson, April 26th 1820

anarchir

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Re: The problem with cheating in the FSP movement
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2010, 01:02:42 PM »

Watch the last season of The Office for a "baby contract."  They ignore it in the end of course.
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John Shaw

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Re: The problem with cheating in the FSP movement
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2010, 10:05:52 PM »

It's an issue for the entire liberty movement.

Comes from the ratio of men to women. Been around for a long time.

The women know that they're in high demand because the dudes are constantly making moves.

Same shit happens with nerds. One semi attractive nerdy girl for ten nerdy dudes = Nerdy girls in high demand.

Ask Ayn Rand. Shit, she convinced her husband that she was too much woman for just one man, and he not only put up with it, but openly agreed to it.

And while I'm a total Rand lover. I'd be a fool to suggest that the woman was attractive. At all.


The only plus is that this is sloooooooowly changing. Now ya just have to spray the patchouli and dirt off 'em, drag 'em outta the drum line and slap a few books into their hands.
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gibson042

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Re: The problem with cheating in the FSP movement
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2010, 11:38:32 PM »

And while I'm a total Rand lover. I'd be a fool to suggest that the woman was attractive. At all.

Exzept for zat vonderful Natasha Fatale aczent, riiight?

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John Shaw

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Re: The problem with cheating in the FSP movement
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2010, 11:41:04 PM »

And while I'm a total Rand lover. I'd be a fool to suggest that the woman was attractive. At all.

Exzept for zat vonderful Natasha Fatale aczent, riiight?



Okay, true dat. I could have listened to her all day. Her voice was pretty mesmerizing.
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alaric89

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Re: The problem with cheating in the FSP movement
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2010, 09:04:21 AM »

What is cheating? I define it as the lie not any actual sexual act. A little guideline, I lean on a lot since I really became a Libertarian, is to stop myself if I feel jealous in any way. Therefore if my wife wanted to fuck some other poor dude I would stop myself from getting all bent out of shape about it. If she wants to do another chick I will ....deal with that as well.
In Norway, because there are so many kids being supported by lied to men, some have suggested to give every newborn a blood test.
Freedom doesn't cause more "cheating" by my definition, Socialism does.
Lots of Innocent fucking in a free society? Man I hope so.
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Re: The problem with cheating in the FSP movement
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2010, 06:27:03 PM »

Why? Was there another one or something?

No, there wasn't.
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John Shaw

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Re: The problem with cheating in the FSP movement
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2010, 06:54:17 PM »

Therefore if my wife wanted to fuck some other poor dude I would stop myself from getting all bent out of shape about it. If she wants to do another chick I will ....deal with that as well.

Then why get married? Stay single and sleep around all you want. Or be swingers, or whatever. But if your SO has sex with someone else, knowing you wouldn't approve, it is a betrayal of trust and commitment. Has nothing to do with jealousy.

Also, it's not just a lie, sex has risks. You are not only betraying trust and commitment, but you are actively putting your SO at risk of disease and pregnancy, or at least having to deal with them.

So, what do we have here -

Betrayal of trust
Betrayal of a commitment (Verging on breech of contract, depending)
Willfully exposing someone to disease
Willfully exposing someone to financial risks (Pregnancy)
Willingly exposing someone to a possible moral dilemma (Abortion)

Fuck that. You wanna fuck around, don't get married or marry a swinger.

Also, I don't wanna sound accusatory, but almost every single person I've ever heard make your argument has had cards they weren't showing. As in they cheated on people one or more times and don't want to feel bad about it.
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Ecolitan

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Re: The problem with cheating in the FSP movement
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2010, 07:03:03 PM »

Some people are never going to be monogamous.  Those people should be honest with themselves and their SOs.
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Re: The problem with cheating in the FSP movement
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2010, 07:21:17 PM »

Some people are never going to be monogamous.  Those people should be honest with themselves and their SOs.

I wholeheartedly agree. Generally speaking, marriage includes an implicit agreement to monogamy. And anyone who rejects that without explicitly making it known to eir spouse is, as John said, reckless, in breach of trust (if not also contract), and a certified ass.
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