The Free Talk Live BBS
Free Talk Live => General => Topic started by: ForumTroll on April 06, 2010, 07:15:23 PM
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Why is there so much infidelity? I don't get it. People holding libertarian views should be able to trust each other and not lie. WTF?
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There's almost 1,000 people. Out of any random population sample that big, I'd be surprised if there was less than 5-10 people getting OPP
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People tend to say one thing and do the exact opposite. Always be leery of those that verbally claim they can be trusted.
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Infidelity is a normal part of human nature.
Males are driven to spread their genes as widely as possible.
Females seek the best provider for their children, and at the same time they "hedge their bets" by keeping an eye out for available genes that might be better at surviving than the ones they already have access to.
What I would like to see is a lot less hypocrisy about it. That would cut down on "infidelity", since there would not be the assumption of "fidelity" in the first place.
For example, why not "baby contracts"? I hereby contract with (insert lady's name here) for one baby paternity assured, additional babies if paternity matches.
And if paternity doesn't match? Not _my_ financial problem.
Interesting idea, no?
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Why? Was there another one or something?
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Why? Was there another one or something?
Yes, the present legal framework says, by default, "the husband is the father" unless or until the husband goes to extraordinary measures to disprove it.
I believe this comes from the "Puritan" origins of America. Bastardy was considered a "sin", so no one talked about it. There was, I've read, still a 25% illegitimacy rate from the start of the North American colonies, although how the researchers figured that one out I can't say.
So the authoritarian Puritans set the stage, as it were, for the Blue Laws, the hiding of bastardy rather than its simple acceptance, etc. The US has always been far more "Victorian" in its attitudes toward sex than pretty much anyone else, even the Victorians.
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Watch the last season of The Office for a "baby contract." They ignore it in the end of course.
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It's an issue for the entire liberty movement.
Comes from the ratio of men to women. Been around for a long time.
The women know that they're in high demand because the dudes are constantly making moves.
Same shit happens with nerds. One semi attractive nerdy girl for ten nerdy dudes = Nerdy girls in high demand.
Ask Ayn Rand. Shit, she convinced her husband that she was too much woman for just one man, and he not only put up with it, but openly agreed to it.
And while I'm a total Rand lover. I'd be a fool to suggest that the woman was attractive. At all.
The only plus is that this is sloooooooowly changing. Now ya just have to spray the patchouli and dirt off 'em, drag 'em outta the drum line and slap a few books into their hands.
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And while I'm a total Rand lover. I'd be a fool to suggest that the woman was attractive. At all.
Exzept for zat vonderful Natasha Fatale aczent, riiight?
(http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr95/Master719/Mafia/Boris--Natasha-outline.jpg) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natasha_Fatale)
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And while I'm a total Rand lover. I'd be a fool to suggest that the woman was attractive. At all.
Exzept for zat vonderful Natasha Fatale aczent, riiight?
(http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr95/Master719/Mafia/Boris--Natasha-outline.jpg) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natasha_Fatale)
Okay, true dat. I could have listened to her all day. Her voice was pretty mesmerizing.
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What is cheating? I define it as the lie not any actual sexual act. A little guideline, I lean on a lot since I really became a Libertarian, is to stop myself if I feel jealous in any way. Therefore if my wife wanted to fuck some other poor dude I would stop myself from getting all bent out of shape about it. If she wants to do another chick I will ....deal with that as well.
In Norway, because there are so many kids being supported by lied to men, some have suggested to give every newborn a blood test.
Freedom doesn't cause more "cheating" by my definition, Socialism does.
Lots of Innocent fucking in a free society? Man I hope so.
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Why? Was there another one or something?
No, there wasn't.
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Therefore if my wife wanted to fuck some other poor dude I would stop myself from getting all bent out of shape about it. If she wants to do another chick I will ....deal with that as well.
Then why get married? Stay single and sleep around all you want. Or be swingers, or whatever. But if your SO has sex with someone else, knowing you wouldn't approve, it is a betrayal of trust and commitment. Has nothing to do with jealousy.
Also, it's not just a lie, sex has risks. You are not only betraying trust and commitment, but you are actively putting your SO at risk of disease and pregnancy, or at least having to deal with them.
So, what do we have here -
Betrayal of trust
Betrayal of a commitment (Verging on breech of contract, depending)
Willfully exposing someone to disease
Willfully exposing someone to financial risks (Pregnancy)
Willingly exposing someone to a possible moral dilemma (Abortion)
Fuck that. You wanna fuck around, don't get married or marry a swinger.
Also, I don't wanna sound accusatory, but almost every single person I've ever heard make your argument has had cards they weren't showing. As in they cheated on people one or more times and don't want to feel bad about it.
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Some people are never going to be monogamous. Those people should be honest with themselves and their SOs.
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Some people are never going to be monogamous. Those people should be honest with themselves and their SOs.
I wholeheartedly agree. Generally speaking, marriage includes an implicit agreement to monogamy. And anyone who rejects that without explicitly making it known to eir spouse is, as John said, reckless, in breach of trust (if not also contract), and a certified ass.
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The greatest thing about monogamy is not having to deal with all the bullshit of seeking out sex partners, dealing with their crap, dealing with all the goddamn drama and effort.
Yeah, a monogamous relationship is a lot of work too, and can be a PITA sometimes, but it's a lot less of a PITA than any alternatives I can think of.
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Therefore if my wife wanted to fuck some other poor dude I would stop myself from getting all bent out of shape about it. If she wants to do another chick I will ....deal with that as well.
Then why get married? Stay single and sleep around all you want. Or be swingers, or whatever. But if your SO has sex with someone else, knowing you wouldn't approve, it is a betrayal of trust and commitment. Has nothing to do with jealousy.
Also, it's not just a lie, sex has risks. You are not only betraying trust and commitment, but you are actively putting your SO at risk of disease and pregnancy, or at least having to deal with them.
So, what do we have here -
Betrayal of trust
Betrayal of a commitment (Verging on breech of contract, depending)
Willfully exposing someone to disease
Willfully exposing someone to financial risks (Pregnancy)
Willingly exposing someone to a possible moral dilemma (Abortion)
Fuck that. You wanna fuck around, don't get married or marry a swinger.
Also, I don't wanna sound accusatory, but almost every single person I've ever heard make your argument has had cards they weren't showing. As in they cheated on people one or more times and don't want to feel bad about it.
Where in that post do we disagree? I hate Liars. Without the lie it is impossible to cheat.
Look I'm 40 and married to a 28 year old who wears me out. I tried to satisfy and put up with another woman I'd have a stroke. But I have friends who swing I don't judge their lifestyle.
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Therefore if my wife wanted to fuck some other poor dude I would stop myself from getting all bent out of shape about it. If she wants to do another chick I will ....deal with that as well.
Then why get married? Stay single and sleep around all you want. Or be swingers, or whatever. But if your SO has sex with someone else, knowing you wouldn't approve, it is a betrayal of trust and commitment. Has nothing to do with jealousy.
Also, it's not just a lie, sex has risks. You are not only betraying trust and commitment, but you are actively putting your SO at risk of disease and pregnancy, or at least having to deal with them.
So, what do we have here -
Betrayal of trust
Betrayal of a commitment (Verging on breech of contract, depending)
Willfully exposing someone to disease
Willfully exposing someone to financial risks (Pregnancy)
Willingly exposing someone to a possible moral dilemma (Abortion)
Fuck that. You wanna fuck around, don't get married or marry a swinger.
Also, I don't wanna sound accusatory, but almost every single person I've ever heard make your argument has had cards they weren't showing. As in they cheated on people one or more times and don't want to feel bad about it.
+1
Some people are never going to be monogamous. Those people should be honest with themselves and their SOs.
Then maybe they shouldn't get married.
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Where in that post do we disagree? I hate Liars. Without the lie it is impossible to cheat.
Well, this isn't necessarily true. Most people don't actually sit down and discuss the terms of a relationship before entering into it, and most people who cheat never say a word about it, so often there's no lying going on at all, just the betrayal of trust.
But I understand what you are saying.
I am, however, uncomfortable agreeing that people who don't approve of open relationships and aren't looking for them have issues with jealousy.
It seemed that that was what you were saying in the post I responded to.
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Most people don't actually sit down and discuss the terms of a relationship before entering into it
Seriously, get it in writing.
I know that sounds cold and heartless, but it is very important in a long-term relationship to be able to say "Yes, you did. Here it is."
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Where in that post do we disagree? I hate Liars. Without the lie it is impossible to cheat.
I am, however, uncomfortable agreeing that people who don't approve of open relationships and aren't looking for them have issues with jealousy.
It seemed that that was what you were saying in the post I responded to.
Response:That not being jealous thing is one of my little rules for myself. With that said, I have to admit that I have never been cheated on.(that I know of) I am clueless to what my real life reaction might be.
New story along line of thread: My best Friend had his wife leave him for a guy she cheated with. (lied, fucked, stole to be with..... Rocco Sigfredi would call her a cheater)
The guy she took off with is going through hell. My buddy is now successfully self employed, and has a hot girlfriend.
He was actually depressed when she left. I said "good riddance."
Love it when I'm right.
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Specify in your vows (or marriage contract) what level of fidelity is expected.
ie I would expect notice within 24 hours of your sleeping with another individual in order to decide how the relationship will proceed. If after 72 hours a decision has not been made, the marriage will continue to be executed.
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Your personal behavior contracts are good for nothing.
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Your personal behavior contracts are good for nothing.
this
also, I'm 100% sure Ayn Rand was the MAN in her relationship with O'Connor, so she could have gotten away with anything there
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The greatest thing about monogamy is not having to deal with all the bullshit of seeking out sex partners, dealing with their crap, dealing with all the goddamn drama and effort.
Yeah, a monogamous relationship is a lot of work too, and can be a PITA sometimes, but it's a lot less of a PITA than any alternatives I can think of.
That's only because you're not confident in your ability to get laid very often. ;)
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I wonder what Ian thinks about this subject.