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Free Talk Live => General => Topic started by: AL the Inconspicuous on February 08, 2010, 02:20:44 PM

Title: The most libertarian sport
Post by: AL the Inconspicuous on February 08, 2010, 02:20:44 PM

I can't stand sports!  I never bothered to learn even the basics of American football and baseball since coming to this country ~17 years ago, and I fight myself to avoid wasting any time even on World Cup Soccer - the sport I played and loved as a kid.  Man, what a waste!  I can't believe the people who wanted to outlaw drugs and alcohol didn't want to do the same to an even greater destroyer of human braincells - spectator sports!

There is one guilty pleasure that I allow myself from time to time though...  "Professional" Wrestling.  (I usually only watch the monthly pay-per-view events though, and via BitTorrent of course.)  You may be floored with surprise, given how obviously fake and childish and stupid that genre of "sport entertainment" truly is, but I think I have a pretty good rationalization for it - and not just how I like to work the dumbbells while watching.  It seems like mainstream juvenile pop-culture bullshit at its worst, and with plenty of militarist propaganda (ex. U.S. Army commercials) thrown in there as well, but I think it's no accident that the two most famous libertarian athletes you know (Glenn Jacobs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Jacobs) and Sean Morley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Morley)) are pro-wrestlers, even though there are relatively few members of that profession compared to all the other college, professional, and Olympic athletes out there.  Another libertarian-leaning sports-related celebrity, Mark Cuban (http://www.theadvocates.org/celebrities/mark-cuban.html), has also been involved with pro-wrestling from time to time.  (And some might say Jesse Ventura (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Ventura#Professional_wrestling_career) should be counted as well.)

Pro wrestling is one of the most difficult professions out there, and one of the few that requires exceeding levels of both physical as well as mental accomplishment.  To be a great pro wrestler you need to be a stage actor, a weightlifter, a gymnast, and a ballerina all at the same time.  You need to be able to remember your lines, remember the script of the match, take some pretty heavy blows, improvise if necessary, and stay in character no matter what.  It is the most individualist sport that I can think of, but one that still requires losing when you're scripted to for the good of your long-term career.  The performers see their bodies as their assets that they own, and are sometimes willing to take significant calculated risks.

It is the most capitalist of entertainment genres - ever dynamic, it never lets tradition or societal pressure to keep it from giving its fans a good time, which they're willing to pay for in record numbers.  This industry doesn't try to justify itself as delivering some feel-good societal benefit, but it recognizes that many of its fans work hard for their money, and they deserve to spend their money on whatever entertainment that makes them feed good.  Everyone has an occasional need to turn off one's higher brain functions and just enjoy a bunch of muscle-bound men try to smack and slam the shit out of each-other with a stupidly amusing premise, which is what professional wrestling is all about!

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith) on February 08, 2010, 02:28:27 PM

Wrestling is fake and gay.

Motocross is exciting, individual based, and not fake.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: anarchir on February 08, 2010, 02:38:05 PM

Quote from: Admiral Naismith on February 08, 2010, 02:28:27 PM

Wrestling is fake and gay.

Motocross is exciting, individual based, and not fake.

I used to like playing in baseball, until the whole "team first-you second" started having negative drawbacks and it wasnt fun anymore.

I dunno about a libertarian sport, many would work. Libertarians can work in teams, so how about bowling?

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: blackie on February 08, 2010, 02:40:57 PM

Quote from: Admiral Naismith on February 08, 2010, 02:28:27 PM

Wrestling is fake and gay.

Most libertarians are fake and gay.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith) on February 08, 2010, 02:41:28 PM

Quote from: anarchir on February 08, 2010, 02:38:05 PM

Quote from: Admiral Naismith on February 08, 2010, 02:28:27 PM

Wrestling is fake and gay.

Motocross is exciting, individual based, and not fake.

I used to like playing in baseball, until the whole "team first-you second" started having negative drawbacks and it wasnt fun anymore.

I dunno about a libertarian sport, many would work. Libertarians can work in teams, so how about bowling?

Most libertarian Sport?  Eh I dunno, I guess I don't really care either.  I grew up around the corner from a bowling alley, but I think bowling is kinda boring.  

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: davann on February 08, 2010, 02:44:07 PM

I'd say golf is fairly individualistic. I vote Golf.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Turd Ferguson on February 08, 2010, 02:52:49 PM

If you fuck up in this sport............ NOBODY can cover your ass for you. More of an activity than a sport though I guess.

(http://www.theshortspan.com/photo/fairheadricky.jpg)

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: atomiccat on February 08, 2010, 03:32:51 PM

how about Paintball or Target shooting

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: alaric89 on February 08, 2010, 04:09:55 PM

Freestyle- motorcross, snowmobiling, skiing, skating etc.  You can take the risk and reap the rewards. 
I think baseball is the most libertarian team sport. A athlete can shine as a individual, or work well in a team and be a great player.
I enjoy pro wrestling though. guess I am a gay faker- what will I tell my wife?

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: AL the Inconspicuous on February 08, 2010, 04:15:38 PM

Quote from: Admiral Naismith on February 08, 2010, 02:28:27 PM Wrestling is fake and gay.

Wrestling is fake in the same sense that theater is fake, but it's still a great art-form and some people clearly enjoy it.  The skill necessary to put on a scripted performance like that is definitely real.

People who think admiration of male athleticism and physical competition is gay have a problem forming a rational and healthy psychological boundary between what does or does not constitute homo-erotic stimulation, and that is a probable sign of latent homosexual tendencies in the subject himself.  Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Quote from: Admiral Naismith on February 08, 2010, 02:28:27 PM Motocross is exciting, individual based, and not fake.

I never spent as much as a minute watching "motocross", but I can confidently predict that it would not stimulate me to lift weights while watching it.  Wrestling appeals to the most basic masculine instinct of physical competition, something that all animals do for social status and play.

Every male in the audience can identify with a wrestler as a basic psychological prototype, no matter how suppressed it may be in any individual.  I can also predict certain "plot twists" in pro wrestling and put myself in the writer / producer's shoes as well.  I even like to ponder the role that the announcers, cameramen, equipment engineers, and all other participants play in creating this theatrical illusion.  Etc.  But having a crude transportation device vibrating underneath your butt is purely an acquired taste, it appeals neither to my inner child nor to my higher intellect.

Quote from: Admiral Naismith on February 08, 2010, 02:41:28 PM [...]  I think bowling is kinda boring.

This x1000!

Libertarians / capitalists always seek to maximize value, to matter if it's material, psychological, or any other kind.  Bowling is meh...  neither athletically beneficial nor exciting in any other way that I can imagine.  It's a kind of pointless hobby that communist Culture Ministers always like to promote, to keep the public occupied and distracted, but aimed at people who can't imagine accomplishing anything else with a ball except waiting your turn and then rolling it.

Quote from: davann on February 08, 2010, 02:44:07 PM I'd say golf is fairly individualistic.  I vote Golf.

I passionately hate golf, as I do $10,000-a-tiny-bottle perfume or other pointless luxury.  I recognize a person's right to play golf if he so chooses, of course, but I just can't get over how freaking inefficient it is, and how could it even be called a sport if someone else carries your clubs or you ride in a golf-cart from hole to hole!  I'll have more respect for a person who uses all that land that a golf course requires to plant a food forest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_gardening) and hike through it with a backpack instead.

Quote from: atomiccat on February 08, 2010, 03:32:51 PM how about Paintball or Target shooting

Yeah, I'm big on that in principle (see also: the "Tax Resistance Olympics (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=31907)" thread), but the word "sport" typically means an athletic event that people also enjoy watching.  I think of target shooting as more of a part of your workout routine.  Watching even the best shooter hit his targets is like watching a boxer beat the shit out of a punching bag.  Paintball is more of an experience, like a video game, not something you'd want to just watch.

Plus it's more of a right-wing survivalist aesthetic, not specifically libertarian in its motivations.  Some might even argue that the best libertarian would swear off from ever touching a gun - for "non-violent civil disobedience" reasons, PR reasons, as well as because being a great libertarian means using your mind, which creates tremendous economic value, while you can always hire people to carry guns and catch bullets for you for relatively cheap.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: DontTreadOnMike on February 08, 2010, 08:09:37 PM

Target shooting or 3-gun competitions.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: John Shaw on February 08, 2010, 08:55:46 PM

The biathalon.

Cross Country Ski, then shoot a gun, then ski more, then shoot.

The hardest competition is with the self.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Harry Tuttle on February 08, 2010, 09:51:14 PM

Team sports can be perfectly "libertarian". Just think of rational self interest and the division of labor. Reasonable people are wise to associate with those who best complement their own skills.

On the other hand, I don't want to encourage any activity that is funded by me under threat of force - in the way that I am forced to pay to build professional sports facilities though my taxes.

Wrestling seems to have quite a bit of central planning involved. I vote for cross-county racing.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Turd Ferguson on February 08, 2010, 10:14:57 PM

This........... simply because its illegal in MANY states, even though all participants voluntarily take part in it. Perfect for Libertarians.

(http://pannikos.com/wp-content/uploads/s05_midgets_6.jpg)

(http://www.weshirt.com/images/w/look_at_me_shirts/20080225025537_midget%20toss%2008.jpg)

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: freeAgent on February 08, 2010, 10:16:03 PM

I don't think there are sports that are more or less libertarian, since they're all activities that people choose to engage in of their own free will.

All that said, my favorite sports are tennis and (alpine) skiing.  I can't really decide between those two.  After that, I'd pick (small boat) sailing.  I guess the pattern with all those sports is that they're all very individualistic.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: blackie on February 08, 2010, 10:39:02 PM

Quote from: freeAgent on February 08, 2010, 10:16:03 PM

I guess the pattern with all those sports is that they're all very individualistic white.

FTFY

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Turd Ferguson on February 08, 2010, 10:52:39 PM

now that you mention it, i figured id ask the age old question....why arent there many black hockey players?

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: ForumTroll on February 08, 2010, 11:05:53 PM

Quote from: quickmike on February 08, 2010, 10:52:39 PM

now that you mention it, i figured id ask the age old question....why arent there many black hockey players?

Intolerant to cold temperature.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: blackie on February 08, 2010, 11:15:55 PM

They also don't seem to be into water sports. Maybe they know ice is water.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: AL the Inconspicuous on February 09, 2010, 01:59:34 PM

Quote from: John Shaw on February 08, 2010, 08:55:46 PM The biathalon.  [...]

We're debating something that's in large part subjective, so there's definitely room for diragreement.  What is it about biathalon that appeals to you?  I like winter and I like guns, but there's nothing inherently libertarian about them.  In my opinion there's too many rules in biathalon, and too little creativity and fun.  You've seen one biathalon competition and you've seen them all...

Quote from: John Shaw on February 08, 2010, 08:55:46 PM The hardest competition is with the self.

That's true, but I'm trying to draw a contrast between sports, which tend to attract a large crowd willing to pay for tickets, and personal fitness, which everyone should ideally engage in but most people wouldn't pay to see.  ("Libman naked on a treadmill" videos being a rare exception.)

Quote from: Harry Tuttle on February 08, 2010, 09:51:14 PM

Team sports can be perfectly "libertarian".  Just think of rational self interest and the division of labor.  Reasonable people are wise to associate with those who best complement their own skills.

Teamwork is important in business, but there you have a lot more individualism and asymmetric dynamism within the team, while traditional team sports are all about imposing artificial equality.  A sport that a libertarian person would find worth watching is a celebration of something romantically (http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/romanticism.html) heroic, and I can think of nothing more so than a professional wrestler making his entrance.  My favorite of all time was Bill Goldberg:

[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/d68yPOeKNKE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/d68yPOeKNKE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

He was to sports what Howard Roark was to architecture.  I just can't imagine this kind of heroic greatness expressed in a team sport!

Quote from: Harry Tuttle on February 08, 2010, 09:51:14 PM [...]  Wrestling seems to have quite a bit of central planning involved.  [...]

Central planning?  In professional wrestling?  That's a laugh!  Sure, it's scripted theater, but it's completely unregulated by the government (much less so than most sports leagues), and anyone can start his own backyard wrestling organization and try to sell tickets, but you do need a lot of talent to rise to the top.


[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mHJXgM5RWq4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mHJXgM5RWq4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Harry Tuttle on February 09, 2010, 06:07:44 PM

Well now. It seems you have called me to task on my complete lack of knowledge of pro wrestling.  :P

I guess I'll have to live with my... my... my... shame?

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: AL the Inconspicuous on February 12, 2010, 11:52:32 PM

Quote from: ForumTroll on February 08, 2010, 11:05:53 PM Quote from: quickmike on February 08, 2010, 10:52:39 PM [...]  why arent there many black hockey players? Intolerant to cold temperature.

(related backlink) (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=23014.msg588908#msg588908)

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: yamnuska on February 13, 2010, 03:29:55 AM

sport - pond hockey, running, lacrosse - you can legally beat the shit out of someone, bare knuckle boxing

activity - alpine climbing

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: AL the Inconspicuous on February 23, 2010, 08:32:44 PM

I'm pretty sure I saw some "Schiff 2010" signs in the WWE Raw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Raw) crowd last night (Vince McMahon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_McMahon)'s wife Linda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_McMahon) is running (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Connecticut,_2010) against Peter Schiff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Schiff)).

And next Monday night's show is being guest-hosted by...  Cheech & Chong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheech_&_Chong)!  :lol:

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: MacFall on February 23, 2010, 10:56:44 PM

Single non-lethal combat. Boxing, wrestling, fencing, etc. But most of all, ice speed-jousting.

Why ice speed-jousting? Because I invented it, and I am completely libertarian. I created it in my own image. Therefore it is completely libertarian.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: AL the Inconspicuous on February 24, 2010, 12:27:57 AM

[youtube=425,350]<object width="640" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hCl3IZc4ULc&hl=en_US&fs=1&hd=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hCl3IZc4ULc&hl=en_US&fs=1&hd=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="505"></embed></object>[/youtube]

:roll:

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Alex Libman on July 21, 2010, 12:06:37 AM

Did anyone else catch the last WWE pay-per-view [BT] (http://btjunkie.org/torrent/WWE-PPV/3979790314d6a02b9ca9aa03bb94e238bd99dc7be647) [WP] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Money_in_the_Bank)?

SPOILER:  it was a very good one (I love ladder matches), and a great night for blogger (http://www.adventuresofcitizenx.com/), Free State Project member, NH Liberty Forum attendee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyYWpD2Nu0E) [2] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w179ujiHzKI), and top libertarian celebrity Glenn Jacobs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kane_%28wrestler%29)!  :D

It's all scripted in advance, of course, but it's nice to see him getting a big push (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_%28professional_wrestling%29) again, which means his wrestling career's future rock-solid.  He now holds a World Championship for the first time in over 10 years, and is the first man to hold the WWE Championship, World Heavyweight Championship, and ECW Championship.


[youtube=480,385]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/o76G8PUu9oM&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/o76G8PUu9oM&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: slayerboy on July 21, 2010, 06:06:42 AM

Drag Racing

NHRA...IHRA...motorcycle, funny car, dragster.  It's all awesome.  You will also lose your hearing if you stand next to one while the drive lightly taps the gas pedal while in the pit.

[youtube=425,350]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ikpHvnDFol4&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ikpHvnDFol4&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Doesn't even begin to portray what it's like in person.  The amount of teamwork that is required is insane, and every team is competitive but I have never heard a team bash another team.  Hell some of them share strategies.  Most "libertarian" sport I can think of.  

Non-violent unless the driver crashes:

[youtube=425,350]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/G4zjhvXDkeg&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/G4zjhvXDkeg&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Edited to fix YouTube embeds

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: mikehz on July 21, 2010, 10:28:32 AM

Pro wrestling isn't so much a sport as an entertainment.

I'd guess the most libertarian sport is pigeon racing. You set the birds free from hundreds of miles away, and then they return home of their own volition.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Alex Libman on July 21, 2010, 06:22:54 PM

Quote from: mikehz on July 21, 2010, 10:28:32 AM Pro wrestling isn't so much a sport as an entertainment.

If you subtract "entertainment" from "sport", what you're left with is a treadmill.  Pro-wrestling requires very tough physical conditioning, and mastery of many other skills as well.  Preparation is a part of the sport too, I would even argue the most important part of the sport, while whether you win or lose in the performance itself often involves more luck than virtue - having the outcome scripted in advance does not diminish it at all.  A form of entertainment that hits the masculine sweet-spot the way pro-wrestling does but isn't scripted would involve a lot more injuries and deaths.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith) on July 21, 2010, 06:49:21 PM

Privateer motocross.  The guys have to come up with their own funding and fix their own bikes (self reliance) and then go out and race a bunch of other guys and win individually.  The MX des Nations was a pretty cool race when the riders had to do all of the maintenance during the entire race themselves.  And the technology is a big factor too.  It used to be that individual racers would come up with all kinds of cool tweaks and improvements to make their bikes faster themselves.  Now there are big teams and stuff that support the racers so it's not as much the same.

I'd say pretty much any individual level sport is more "libertarian" than any team sport though.  I used to run track & field and cross country and would say that's another more "libertarian" sport.

Any of these are certainly better than WWF wrestling.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: The Green Bastard on July 22, 2010, 12:07:57 AM

Midgets vs. Mascots MMA.

(http://www.gunaxin.com/wp-content/gallery/mvm/midgets_vs_mascots-09.jpg)

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Alex Libman on July 22, 2010, 01:20:17 AM

LMFAO!

[youtube=640,385]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/s4guUdHl2tU&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/s4guUdHl2tU&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]


(Mandatory BitTorrent link (http://btjunkie.org/torrent/Midgets-Vs-Mascots-2009-DVDSCR-XviD-NODLABS-ilibrorg-ShaN/284925a6148c6f970b781b47132d0b24863bbb74806d))


PS:  bikers suck (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=24856.0)!

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith) on July 22, 2010, 02:07:57 AM

Quote from: The Green Bastard on July 22, 2010, 12:07:57 AM

Midgets vs. Mascots MMA.

(http://www.gunaxin.com/wp-content/gallery/mvm/midgets_vs_mascots-09.jpg)

now that is badass

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: anarchir on March 27, 2011, 06:50:35 PM

Dueling.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: mikehz on March 28, 2011, 12:02:24 PM

Quote from: Alex  Libman on July 21, 2010, 06:22:54 PM

Quote from: mikehz on July 21, 2010, 10:28:32 AM Pro wrestling isn't so much a sport as an entertainment.

If you subtract "entertainment" from "sport", what you're left with is a treadmill.  Pro-wrestling requires very tough physical conditioning, and mastery of many other skills as well.  Preparation is a part of the sport too, I would even argue the most important part of the sport, while whether you win or lose in the performance itself often involves more luck than virtue - having the outcome scripted in advance does not diminish it at all.  A form of entertainment that hits the masculine sweet-spot the way pro-wrestling does but isn't scripted would involve a lot more injuries and deaths.

I think pro wrestling resembles ballet more than it does sports, in that it's highly choreographed and requires excellent training and physical conditioning.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: cavalier973 on March 29, 2011, 12:25:00 PM

Quote from: AL the Inconspicuous on February 08, 2010, 04:15:38 PM

I passionately hate golf, as I do $10,000-a-tiny-bottle perfume or other pointless luxury.  I recognize a person's right to play golf if he so chooses, of course, but I just can't get over how freaking inefficient it is, and how could it even be called a sport if someone else carries your clubs or you ride in a golf-cart from hole to hole!  I'll have more respect for a person who uses all that land that a golf course requires to plant a food forest and hike through it with a backpack instead.

I was never a fan of golf, until I purchased this:  http://simgolf.ea.com/

It turns golf into a money-making activity, which makes it fun.  I went out and bought a set of golf clubs afterward, to try it for real.  It's not that bad playing it; watching it is still little more exciting than watching paint dry.  The only sport really worth watching is Bull-Riding.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Cognitive Dissident on March 29, 2011, 03:19:35 PM

Quote from: AL the Inconspicuous on February 09, 2010, 01:59:34 PM

Quote from: John Shaw on February 08, 2010, 08:55:46 PM The biathalon.  [...]

(something about teamwork...I screwed up and I'm too lazy to fix it)

I'm with Shaw.  The biathlon also comes in new, relay formula.

---

Edited to recognize inaccuracy.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: BonerJoe on March 29, 2011, 11:42:30 PM

Trolling WTFK.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: mikehz on March 30, 2011, 12:28:33 AM

Surely, the most libertarian sport must be pigeon racing. You keep setting them free, and they keep coming back of their own free will.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: anarchir on March 30, 2011, 12:57:54 AM

I necro'd this thread because Libman was afraid to, and now its catchin on :D

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Alex Libman on March 30, 2011, 12:06:04 PM

See, this is why I'm such a big fan of necroing.  Now, because I was forbidden to necro this thread, we have two threads (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/wrestlemania-xxvii/) where there could have been one, taking up twice as much space in the listing, etc.  Toldyaso, Shaw.  (Respectfully)


Anyway, pigeon racing reminds me of On The Waterfront, a half-way commie movie.  I remember people keeping pigeons in Moscow; I doubt there's as much of it in NYC, though I've spent very little time there.  Both of those places are commie hellholes.  Way fewer pigeons in places where liberty-loving individuals choose to live.  And I'm not sure I'd describe pigeons as having "free will" that is comparable to libertarian Rational Economic Actors like humans.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Pizzly on March 31, 2011, 03:10:08 PM

Obviously boxing chess. I can't imagine any other answer.
(http://www.chessmaniac.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/chess-boxing.jpg)

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Alex Libman on March 31, 2011, 05:11:11 PM

Yeah, chessboxing...  I think it's been mentioned here on one of the deleted threads.  I used to have a bunch of 1st place chess championship trophies from high school (hey, it got me out of class), but I haven't played a match in 12 years, and I can't even stand the sight of a chessboard...  Must be the memories of my father making me play when I was very young...  It was a big Soviet pass-time intended to waste people's intellect (http://cassandra2004.blogspot.com/2008/01/bobby-fischer-ayn-rand-open-letter-to.html)...  And boxing / getting hit in the head doesn't make you much smarter either...  :|

As an alternative, I'm a big fan of coding and weightlifting.  You code for half an hour, then you do some sets, rinse, repeat.  Strains your forearms a bit though, so you can't type as fast.  :roll:

---

Oh, BTW, another libertarian (http://www.server.theadvocates.org/celebrities/drew-carey.html) connection to "pro" wrestling - Drew Carey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Carey#Other_roles_and_appearances)!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60Sw0HTxYzc[/youtube]

I only found out about this because he's getting inducted (http://www.stagetimemag.com/comedy/2011/03/14/drew-carey-to-be-inducted-into-wwe/) into the WWE "Hall of Fame" this April 2nd!

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: anarchir on April 01, 2011, 12:39:21 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_boxing

That is sweet. It mixes Jocks with Nerds for the ultimate battle of dominance.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: velojym on April 01, 2011, 12:51:04 AM

Bicycle racing *should* be one of the most individualistic sports out there. Unfortunately, forces have conspired to pussify it into the worst sort of
team sport, one where one is expected to cast himself upon the altar of the Greater Good of the team. Self immolation appears to have taken over
and while some riders come out on top, their victories are usually helped along by the "selfless" sacrifice of their fellow riders.
Some hope remains, though. The individual time-trial, and the more American form of endurance racing. Then there are other rides which aren't really
races at all... though there are a few who still want to come in first. Hotter'N'Hell 100 took me about 5 hours, and was probably the most satisfying event
of my life.
Yeah, there's drafting, which is a valid tactic (unbeknownst to me, I dragged a paceline of 34 riders for the first 20 miles), but that's not so much a team thing as just using resources available to you. It's easy to get too comfy in a paceline while a breakaway leaves you behind.

Drives me nuts to watch the talking heads during the Tour talk about how great and worthy a collectivist endeavor bicycle racing is (not in so many words, but they do reek of it).

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Cognitive Dissident on April 01, 2011, 01:38:35 AM

I'd say, especially in sports, libertarian and individualistic are very different.  Teamwork doesn't have to be illibertarian, and individualistic doesn't have to be libertarian (EG death race 2000.)  Guess it's kinda like the difference between liberty and equality.  The libertarian sport, rather than being a solo sport, should probably be one that the winners win because they did more, but not because they hurt the other participant...so maybe more like bowling or darts, or a relay race, and less like ball games or (other) contact sports.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Alex Libman on April 01, 2011, 01:52:34 AM

Very good post, velojym.  :D

I personally dislike bicycling for some reason, and this is a post where I (over)analyze the aesthetics of bicycling from my point of view.  It shouldn't take anything away from the merits of your opinion.

I guess it's a part of my trend of avoiding middle-ground solutions: I like both rural isolation and Hong Kong (huge dense skyscrapers), both C and Python, etc.  That way you get the best of both worlds.  But Suburbia or Java are for compromisers who only get mediocrity.  Bicycling is the same way.  Walking / jogging / running is primal and it utilizes the human body more naturally than biking, which over-strains some muscles without utilizing others.  Any kind of motor racing is a triumph of fucking-cool technology.  But a bicycle...  The first association is it's what the communist Chinese rode to work because they had to!

Also, bicycling is not as liberating as walking / jogging from my point of view as a tax resister.  If you bike on government's asphalt then you are benefiting from it, and making yourself the subject of its rules, while walking along property borders (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/freedom-of-travel-along-property-borders/) should be every person's Natural Right.  I stopped biking long before I became a tax resister, because of the retarded law that I have to go on the right side of the road, where I must have blind faith that each driver coming from behind me isn't drunk (or texting, etc) and isn't about swerve out of his lane and kill me - if I'm riding on the left then at least I have a chance to react...  That's one of the first things that government ruined for me...  :x

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: velojym on April 01, 2011, 02:39:47 PM

I can't really disagree with any of those points, but I far prefer cycling along at several times the speed of a jogger, while using less energy in the process. I did once imagine a network of privately funded cycle-paths in the area, but since folks just naturally assume that's the Gubmint's job...
it'll never get done. Kinda like space travel in the last century.

Of course there are all-terrain bikes, too. Ride when you can, push at walking speed otherwise.

I guess it's a "diff'rent strokes" kind of thing. The roads are there, having completely displaced whatever technology might have occurred in a free market, so they're what I use, even though they're getting crappier every year (and they just keep throwing more and more money at 'em).

I'll still say that cycling oughta be a libertarian sport. The only way to get ahead by dragging someone else behind is to physically obstruct them. I've ridden in pacelines that moved much faster than an individual rider could have managed, without costing *anyone* anything. We just took turns at the front. That's pretty cooperative, and libertarian, IMHO. Where it gets more collectivist is when a team member is told to take the front for an unusually long time in order to allow the favored-son to arrive at the final stretch fresh and ready for the sprint. Sure, it can be purely voluntary on the teammate's part, but it's more of a general example than a universal law.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Cognitive Dissident on April 01, 2011, 02:45:59 PM

I'm good with it.

Title: Re: The most libertarian sport
Post by: Alex Libman on April 02, 2011, 01:37:18 AM

Wrestlers are even allowed to say things I'm not allowed to say on this "free talk live" forum:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj6c7VuErLw[/youtube]

 :shock: