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Author Topic: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left  (Read 15195 times)

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cerpntaxt

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Re: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2007, 11:57:46 PM »

OK, Mr. Agorist...
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Taors

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Re: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2007, 12:35:51 AM »

Sorry I don't follow the dogma 100%. :roll:
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cerpntaxt

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Re: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2007, 12:47:24 AM »

Uh this isn't about dogma it's about basic fucking tenets...
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Taors

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Re: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2007, 01:06:00 AM »

From Wikipedia:

Quote
Agorism is a radical left-libertarian form of anarchist political philosophy popularized by the late Samuel Edward Konkin III, whose goal was a society in which all "relations between people are voluntary exchanges a free market."[1]. The term comes from the Greek word "agora" meaning "open marketplace". Ideologically, it is a term representing a revolutionary type of free market anarchism.[2]

Agorists are anarcho-capitalists who 1) consider intellectual property to be illegitimate, and 2) are soft propertarians i.e. are not opposed in principle to collectively held property if acquired in accordance with Rothbardian/Lockean property ethics. Agorists consider their ideas to be an evolution and superation of those of Murray Rothbard. Konkin describes agorists as "strict Rothbardians...and even more Rothbardian than Rothbard."[3]

Strategically, agorists are advocates or conscious practitioners of counter-economics (peaceful black and grey markets). Konkin's Agorism, as expounded in the New Libertarian Manifesto[1], advocates achieving a market anarchist society through advocacy and growth of the underground economy or "black market" the "counter-economy" as Konkin put it until such a point that the State's perceived moral authority and outright power have been so thoroughly undermined that revolutionary market anarchist legal and security enterprises are able to arise from underground and ultimately suppress government as a criminal activity (with taxation being treated as theft, war being treated as mass murder, et cetera).

Agorists consider their ideas a leftward evolution and superation of those of Murray Rothbard. They describe themselves as left libertarian, though this is non-standard usage - by "left" they mean revolutionary rather than socialist.

Hmmm, looks like I believe all those things and do all those things. Consider for a minute that Rothbard helped form the Libertarian Party...but, but...Rothbard just wasn't a principled libertarian! Right? :roll:

I didn't see anything about not voting in there.
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wtfk

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Re: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2007, 04:00:11 AM »

Dude, you don't fucking get it. It's not left and right like you're thinking :roll:

The whole use of "left" is misleading, and, yes, as someone said, "stupid."  I "get it" and I believe it's an absurd and inappropriate label for the aforementioned reasons.
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Taors

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Re: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2007, 08:03:56 AM »

I don't see the point. There are few enough liberty minded people as it is, even less within the an-cap camp, so why are you picking labels to keep on sub-dividing the movement even more?

You know, so they can be unique and have fancy labels that represent their principleness.

I guess me and Keti will have to drop the agorism label now because we both believe voting is self defense...
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theodorelogan

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Re: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2007, 10:30:13 AM »

Taors,

Do you believe that you are responsible for the actions of a politician you vote for if he or she wins?

Quote
I don't see the point. There are few enough liberty minded people as it is, even less within the an-cap camp, so why are you picking labels to keep on sub-dividing the movement even more?

Dude, you guys are the ones hung up on the label.  Who cares if they call themselves left or not?  The question is, do you agree with their principles?

I am sure they call themselves left because, historically, the left has been the supporters of individual liberty.  So they are hearkening back to those roots.  But why get so hung up on that word?  Do you agree with them or not?
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RAD!

theodorelogan

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Re: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2007, 03:50:06 PM »

It sounds to me like they are trying to seperate themselves from the left by calling themselves the "libertarian" left
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RAD!

Porcupine_in_MA

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Re: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2007, 04:04:03 PM »

  Libertarianism is principled, and to attach left or right to it as a qualifier is to make it unprincipled.

Wtfk you get an applause for that. You put it exactly right.
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theodorelogan

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Re: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2007, 10:08:45 PM »

Attaching a word to something does not change the thing.  It just changes the word.  I could call a desk a gobderall.....guess what.  It didn't magically transform.  I could call myself a left libertarian.  Guess what?  I have the exact same beliefs as I had before I called myself that....so I am still principled.

We have too few allies right now to turn on people based on their NAME.  Their principles are the same regardless of the name.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 10:21:41 PM by Pres. of Vincentia »
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RAD!

wtfk

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Re: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2007, 10:28:27 PM »

Go ahead.  The next time you get stopped by a cop, announce that you're an anarchist, and that you're against the war on drugs.  Enjoy the search.

Words have implications.  Whether or not those implications are properly understood, the commonly accepted connotation will generally be applied.
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cerpntaxt

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Re: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2007, 11:15:37 PM »

What are you talking about?
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mrapplecastle

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Re: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2007, 11:52:18 PM »

word
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Taors

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Re: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2007, 06:00:23 AM »

Attaching a word to something does not change the thing.  It just changes the word.  I could call a desk a gobderall.....guess what.  It didn't magically transform.  I could call myself a left libertarian.  Guess what?  I have the exact same beliefs as I had before I called myself that....so I am still principled.

We have too few allies right now to turn on people based on their NAME.  Their principles are the same regardless of the name.

So what's the point in calling yourself that then?
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theodorelogan

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Re: The Alliance of the Libertarian Left
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2007, 12:53:28 PM »

I have no clue.
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RAD!
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