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Author Topic: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence  (Read 7857 times)

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bushwacker

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2005, 01:37:18 AM »

Does NH have allodial title like TX aparently still does (according to Badnarik)?
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bonerjoe

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2005, 02:47:30 AM »

No state in the union has true transferrable allodial title. Only land patents from the Federal Government count.

The bad news is that they haven't issued new patents in over 10 years.

The good news is that there are plenty of properties to buy.

The bad news is that they're pretty much all in Bumfuck Egypt (i.e. the middle of nowhere).
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libertylover

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2005, 05:31:06 AM »

No state in the union has true transferrable allodial title. Only land patents from the Federal Government count.

The bad news is that they haven't issued new patents in over 10 years.

The good news is that there are plenty of properties to buy.

The bad news is that they're pretty much all in Bumfuck Egypt (i.e. the middle of nowhere).

Don't you mean Loving County TX?
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TN_FSP

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2005, 09:47:02 AM »

Does NH have allodial title like TX aparently still does (according to Badnarik)?

Badnarik is a good guy and means well.  But, I wouldn't take his word or his book as fact without double checking.  That said, I enjoyed meeting him in NH this year.  Also, I look forward to loving near him in NH in a few years.
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bonerjoe

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2005, 10:44:21 AM »

Don't you mean Loving County TX?

Why, you know of some?
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bushwacker

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2005, 11:35:22 PM »

So who owns more land really? The Feds or the Banks?
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BKO

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2005, 02:48:56 AM »

Does NH have allodial title like TX aparently still does (according to Badnarik)?
NH is not an independent REPUBLIC last time I checked.  All "allodial" means is that the title in your hands is IT, none higher.  No other person owns it except YOU.  It isn't a bill of sale, not a "certificate of title", but the real deal. ;)

NH has property taxes out the WAA-HOO.  I would say NO, they do not offer the allodial title to land purchases.  Although, I would like to see some of those Freestaters actually acquire a recent one. ;)  If you OWN the land, then you do NOT owe rent on it (land tax).

Gay_Libertarian

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2006, 05:34:15 PM »

The reason libertarians and the LP haven't been more successful has been because of a 1-2 punch from the Republicrats:

1)  Ballot access laws;

2)  Media freeze-outs.

Well, I think we in the LP are doing good things.

We've overcome the ballot access laws (which DID sap a lot of our resources).  We are the only third party with a consistent and enduring ability to run candidates in all fifty states.

The second blockade -- media freeze-outs -- is losing its strength.

The mainstream media is dying.  The readership of the NY Times is down by almost 50%. Conservative magazines are literally going out of business.  The cable news regime is tiny in comparison to the number of readers of popular blogs.

Look what the Dean people did -- they had some ideas, NO media coverage, and scared the living bejesus out of the folks who run the Demopublican party with their numerical strength.  We can do the same thing with new media and the internet.

Why else do you think the guys in Washington are so keen to tackle our First Amendment rights into the mud with "campaign finance reform?"  The last LP campaign -- and the Dean campaign -- illustrated the danger that the largely impossible-to-control decentralized free market of ideas has on the establishment.  We've scared the piss out of them.

Now considering that people with libertarian ideas represent a large chunk of the electorate in this country, the challenge is reaching out to them and connecting them to their local Libertarian Party organization.  To do that, we have to change the way the LP is managed, from a political party debate society of the 1960s with conventions and such crap, to a lean and mean organizing machine with a decentralized information network.  Once we do that, our political fortunes are destined to grow.

It's not going to be an easy slog of it, and there ARE going to be disappointments along the way.  But disappointments bring learning and growth.  Again, look at the Dean people -- they didn't get their man their party nomination and the chance to run against Bush, but they DID get him the top job running the organization which tried so hard to undermine him.

All we have to do is scare the bejesus out of some Republicans, become spoilers in close races, and be the lone challengers in many of the unipartisan races you'll find all over this country, and we grow.  And grow.  And grow.

It's the internet and personalized communications in a free market of ideas which has given us this opportunity.  Let's not blow it by pretending the only way to move forward is take over a teeny-tiny New England state.
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libertylover

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2006, 06:04:34 PM »

I hope that you are correct about the future of the LP.  I don't see the FSP as the only way but I would still encourage young people who are Libertarian to make the choice to move to NH before they put down too many roots.  NH can act as a beacon and if the section of Vermont is successful in joining NH.  Who knows what other communities in other states might just do the same thing.  NH might just have a new profile as chunks of MA, ME and VT elect to join NH.
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Gay_Libertarian

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2006, 07:41:14 PM »

As a New Englander myself, I have to point out that New England's political culture has always been isolated and targeted by other regions of the country.  If you're hoping to start a revolution with the FSP, it's unlikely to work -- people down south and in the Midwest will just dismiss it as "another crazy idea from those New Englanders."

The other problem, of course, is that eventually Washington will step in if things get out of hand and ruthlessly crush the FSP if it becomes too successful.  Without a successful and concerted effort to build a national LP political network, they'll largely transform things into a regional question and then do what the central government does best -- impose mediocre conformity.
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bonerjoe

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2006, 07:50:38 PM »

The FSP's own members will be it's downfall.
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Gay_Libertarian

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2006, 08:00:29 PM »

And a lot of the FSPs political allies aren't libertarians.
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bonerjoe

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2006, 08:01:24 PM »

That's the gist of my statement.
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libertylover

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2006, 02:44:32 AM »

As a New Englander myself, I have to point out that New England's political culture has always been isolated and targeted by other regions of the country.  If you're hoping to start a revolution with the FSP, it's unlikely to work -- people down south and in the Midwest will just dismiss it as "another crazy idea from those New Englanders."

The other problem, of course, is that eventually Washington will step in if things get out of hand and ruthlessly crush the FSP if it becomes too successful.  Without a successful and concerted effort to build a national LP political network, they'll largely transform things into a regional question and then do what the central government does best -- impose mediocre conformity.

Guess I am just tired of a concerted effort to build up the national LP. It hasn't worked in the last 30 years. It hasn't been working in the last 18 years in fact the LP is further away from its goal than ever. Just tired of the endless petition drives just to stay on the ballot and once on the ballot only getting a single digit fraction of the vote. The constantly being overwhelmed and unable to raise capital has a draining effect. Many leave the LP over the lack of success and end up going to the Republicans thinking they can help turn them around to their small government philosophy. (This is especially true of young LP members that have any political goals.  When they see all the work involved in just maintaining what little hold we have they are lost.  Once lost they are quickly consumed by the lure of power and money or find themselves pushed out the RP.  Once pushed out they become disheartened and resolve to keep their heads low trying to stay below the radar.) 

I do think that free market ideas as they take hold anywhere in the country and succeed will get noticed. Maybe the fed will come in maybe not. They haven't stomped down on NV for gaming and prostitution. It just seems that a fresh approach needs to be tried and the FSP is the only new idea I have seen in a long time. Ok the FSP is composed of people other than LP so what. They will do fine as long as they are for a small government approach.

It does have a chance. Look at how Ireland turned itself around by lowering taxes. Now many corporations that were once based in London have switched to Dublin. And the rest of the EU is taking note of this once backwater fly-over island.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2006, 03:25:57 AM by libertylover »
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Evil Muppet

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2006, 03:23:24 AM »

Damn, it will never work.  You convinced me Gay.  It is a stupid idea.  I guess I will just lay down right here and die. 

The national government would attempt to crush our little movement?  You think?

If I were in charge of the Freedom movement in New Hampshire, I wouldn't wait until the Federales tried to supress our movement.  I would instigate a confrontation between the state and the federal government.  It will be inevitable anyways so might as well make sure it is on our terms. 
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Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
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