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Author Topic: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence  (Read 7858 times)

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lapafrax

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The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« on: December 21, 2005, 06:05:46 PM »

Yes, what is the point of the US libertarian party's existence?

Aren't libertarian political parties a waste, in general?  The likelihood of a Libertarian US president isn't that high.  Getting seats in Congress isn't that viable either.  Libertarian parties fail because there is universally a statist mentality.  The secret is in challenging this mentality and persuading people to change their thinking.

Surely it would be better to concentrate on spreading libertarian ideas, rather than seeking political power.  IMO, the US Libertarian party should disband and become a pressure group that seeks to influence the political class into libertarian values. 

Talk radio shows like FTL are also good for this reason.  As is the FSP, which hopefully will demonstrate that liberty works.



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BKO

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2005, 07:00:26 PM »

Couple that thought with the protection and teachings of our constitution, and I will agree with you.

Unfortunately, too many Libertaricrats on this board for example, are more concerned with being anarchists and pushing anti-"statist" mentality that they cannot even realize they have been divided amongst themselves, and this balkanization tactic is only one of many that has been implemented to dismantle any attempt at organizing a successful overthrow of government, which I submit as our only true course of action left.

eukreign

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2005, 07:09:56 PM »

Couple that thought with the protection and teachings of our constitution, and I will agree with you.

Unfortunately, too many Libertaricrats on this board for example, are more concerned with being anarchists and pushing anti-"statist" mentality that they cannot even realize they have been divided amongst themselves, and this balkanization tactic is only one of many that has been implemented to dismantle any attempt at organizing a successful overthrow of government, which I submit as our only true course of action left.

I thought all you had to do was kill a few key people...
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sfliberty

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2005, 07:25:36 PM »

I don't know.  Just don't give them money; Give it to someone else (Free State Project, DownsizeDC.org, Adcovates for Self-Government, etc.).  If they put up a canidate every year, they will get SOME press coverage and that will equal even the tiny amount of new people to look into Libertarianism.
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lapafrax

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2005, 08:44:48 PM »

The LP has been running in presidential elections for nearly 30 years, but having candidates hasn't increased the awareness of libertarianism in the US electorate.  The media wouldn't give enough air time to a LP candidate because he has little chance of winning.  For all this effort, libertarianism still remains a fringe ideology.

Again, I think it's best to disband the LP.  There must be better methods of spreading libertarian ideals.
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TN_FSP

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2005, 10:38:08 PM »

The LP has been running in presidential elections for nearly 30 years, but having candidates hasn't increased the awareness of libertarianism in the US electorate.  The media wouldn't give enough air time to a LP candidate because he has little chance of winning.  For all this effort, libertarianism still remains a fringe ideology.

Again, I think it's best to disband the LP.  There must be better methods of spreading libertarian ideals.

Libertarianism is not a fringe ideology, depending on how you define libertarianism.  If you define libertarianism as ZAP, I agree.  I don't even agree with ZAP completely.  However, if you define libertarianism as standing for much smaller government and more personal responsibility or by the World’s Smallest Political Quiz, it is not fringe.  The WSPQ shows us that around 15% or more of people that take the quiz are libertarian.  15% is not fringe. 

Also, I don’t think the LP should dissolve.  There is room for politics in the libertarian movement.  If you want to directly lobby the people with pro-liberty ideas, support FTL, the FSP, the Advocates , DownsizeDC, drug freedom groups, free speech groups, gun groups, etc.

The libertarian movement is having political success.  NH is electing lots of libertarian that run as Republicans, Libertarians, and in non-party races.  People with libertarian ideas are getting elected to the US Congress and state Congresses all across America.

BTW, starting in January, the LP will be free to join.
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bushwacker

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2005, 01:40:38 AM »

I don't know.  Just don't give them money; Give it to someone else (Free State Project, DownsizeDC.org, Adcovates for Self-Government, etc.).  If they put up a canidate every year, they will get SOME press coverage and that will equal even the tiny amount of new people to look into Libertarianism.

For the record, I'm both a card-carying LP member AND an employee of DDC, so go figure ;)
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BKO

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2005, 01:41:17 AM »

OOOH! Well, if it's FREE, then it must CERTAINLY BE OK!!!

Uh...


The Libertarian Party doesn't really seem to be an answer to ANY problem as long as the Democrats and Republicans have a monopoly on Slavery, Inc.

libertylover

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2005, 09:51:52 AM »

OOOH! Well, if it's FREE, then it must CERTAINLY BE OK!!!
Uh...
The Libertarian Party doesn't really seem to be an answer to ANY problem as long as the Democrats and Republicans have a monopoly on Slavery, Inc.

Why do you think so many Libertarians are interested in moving to NH.  That way they can break the hold the Demopublicans have on at least one state. 

I have advocated for a long time that the Libertarians become more issue oriented group and only run candidates in a few races.  I would have gone Republican if they had stayed to their small government principles.  But they didn't do that.  It is interesting that the group of Libertarians here are made up of both small government and anarchist which manage to get along. 
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BKO

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2005, 11:52:47 AM »

Well, try not to get me wrong, Libertylover: you guys should be proud of yourselves, that much is certain.  Only, you do not see that the only way to win this war is through taking out the enemy's legs, and that means their financial sources, otherwise you will only end up pissing in the wind.  I believe that Fisher can show you how corrupt / corruptable the FSP and Libertarian Party can be with ease.  All I am saying is that we cannot win against an enemy this powerful by trying to change one state -bless your hearts for trying...until you FIRST kill the banks and the IRS, or in the very LEAST use an alternate means of barter and refuse to pay taxes, no exceptions.  I know we have the liberty dollar, and I know that you can refuse to pay taxes...but this is not enough.  We need to draw a line in the sand, and we need to do it NOW.

Or else all will be lost, and it will be too late to meet our enemy with the resistance that will be necessary in order for us to be victorious.

Quote
"Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." The Spartans at Thermopylae knew this. The fighting Jews of Masada knew this, when every man, woman and child died rather than submit to Roman tyranny. The Texans who died at the Alamo knew this. The frozen patriots of Valley Forge knew this. The "expendable men" of Bataan and Corregidor knew this. If there is one lesson of Hitlerism and the Holocaust, it is that free men, if they wish to remain free, must resist would-be tyrants at the first opportunity and at every opportunity. Remember that whether they the come as conquerors or elected officials, the men who secretly wish to be your murderers must first convince you that you must accept them as your masters. Free men and women must not wait until they are "selected", divided and herded into Warsaw Ghettos, there to finally fight desperately, almost without weapons, and die outnumbered. The tyrant must be met at the door when he appears. At your door, or mine, wherever he shows his bloody appetite. He must be met by the pistol which can defeat an army. He must be met at every door, for in truth we outnumber him and his henchmen. It matters not whether they call themselves Communists or Nazis or something else. It matters not what flag they fly, nor what uniform they wear. It matters not what excuses they give for stealing your liberty, your property or your life. "By their works ye shall know them."
-Winston Churchill

lapafrax

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2005, 12:34:03 PM »


Quote
Libertarianism is not a fringe ideology, depending on how you define libertarianism.  If you define libertarianism as ZAP, I agree.  I don't even agree with ZAP completely.  However, if you define libertarianism as standing for much smaller government and more personal responsibility or by the World’s Smallest Political Quiz, it is not fringe.  The WSPQ shows us that around 15% or more of people that take the quiz are libertarian.  15% is not fringe. 

This quiz is hardly scientifically conducted.  I'd bet the amount of libertarians in the US is relatively small.  Most US citizens either don't value smaller government or know of libertarian beliefs.
Quote
Also, I don’t think the LP should dissolve.  There is room for politics in the libertarian movement.  If you want to directly lobby the people with pro-liberty ideas, support FTL, the FSP, the Advocates , DownsizeDC, drug freedom groups, free speech groups, gun groups, etc.

But how effective is the LP?  How many more people have been tuned on to libertarian ideas because of its existence?  In practically every presidential election, the LP only gets 300-400,000 votes.  Even if more people are aware of libertarianism, this isn't reflected in votes.

Quote
The libertarian movement is having political success.

Where?  In Costa Rica?!  That's about the only place in which a libertarian party has representation in a legislature.

Quote
  NH is electing lots of libertarian that run as Republicans, Libertarians, and in non-party races.  People with libertarian ideas are getting elected to the US Congress and state Congresses all across America.

BTW, starting in January, the LP will be free to join.


New Hampshire is already more of a liberty-oriented state.  What about the other 49 states? 
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bonerjoe

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2005, 01:09:09 PM »

If nobody has any balls and are afraid of pissing off the locals, then why bother?
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bushwacker

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2005, 02:47:47 AM »

Liberty dollar dudes! For the record, I would move to NH if I:

1. Had the time
2. Had the money
3. Didn't mind freezing my ass off :D
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2005, 11:31:33 PM »

I'd rather move to the warm Texas coastline...
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TN_FSP

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Re: The "point" of the US libertarian party's existence
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2005, 11:40:40 PM »

Liberty dollar dudes! For the record, I would move to NH if I:

1. Had the time
2. Had the money
3. Didn't mind freezing my ass off :D

It's not cold inside a house or car or store or office.  It's not cold outside if you dress for it.

So you just have to worry about #1 and #2.  It only takes a few clicks on roommates.com and a trip to get to NH.  If you are the average American, you'll have more money by moving to NH.
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