Streetwalking in Amsterdam

[Cognitive Dissident]

I thought I read, perhaps a year ago, that they're starting to enforce the cannabis ban around the center of town.  I think I might even have heard it here.

[Bill Brasky]

I thought I read, perhaps a year ago, that they're starting to enforce the cannabis ban around the center of town.  I think I might even have heard it here.

You're not supposed to smoke outside the cafe, but they'll let it slide if you're not being an asshole.  You can keep it on the DL and take a rip off a joint, act natural.  Nobody's gonna spin their head at the smell.  Taking big gaggers off a 4ft Graffix bong, probably not a good idea out on the sidewalk. 

Licensed cafe's are not to be traded from one owner to another.  They're sort of grandfathered, by my limited understanding.  If I tried to sell my cafe to you, you'd probably have a hard time keeping it open and selling buds.  I guess in other words, they're not issuing new licenses or transferring licenses, although you may be able to wiggle a transfer if you're connected - who knows, gray area politics.  Exemption, favor, could happen from time to time under certain circumstances.  So as time progresses and people get old, the cafe's are dwindling in number - and that kind of statistical number slide over time could lead people to say OMGz, they're closing the cafe's. 

I think the most notable thing thats happened is magic mushrooms have been reclassified.  You're not allowed to sell them in cannabis cafe's at all.  Previously you could.  Now they have some "special shops" where you can get them, and they treat it as an offense that will fuck over your pot cafe.  I'm a little hazy on that one. 

Since people don't trip nearly as much as they smoke, the choice of the shops is pretty obvious which one they'll cater towards.   

[anarchir]

So, anyone have anything to say on the point of this thread? Voluntary alternatives to taking aggressive action. Win-win situations.

[Cognitive Dissident]

Did they use their own money to build "Hooker Street" or did they steal it?

[anarchir]

Did they use their own money to build "Hooker Street" or did they steal it?

I'm not going to say its 100% or even close to voluntary. The point is to look it and realize they could have cracked down. They could have got more cops on the case. Instead, they gave in to market pressure. It is this sort of thing we can examine for use in the free market. Someone doing something you dislike? Offer them a non-coercive incentive to behave differently. The customers (demand) looking for the cheaper streetwalkers (supply) now know the best place to look for it.

I'm not a statist or an idiot so dont pretend like I am attempting to approve of the state.

[Cognitive Dissident]

Did they use their own money to build "Hooker Street" or did they steal it?

I'm not going to say its 100% or even close to voluntary. The point is to look it and realize they could have cracked down. They could have got more cops on the case. Instead, they gave in to market pressure. It is this sort of thing we can examine for use in the free market. Someone doing something you dislike? Offer them a non-coercive incentive to behave differently. The customers (demand) looking for the cheaper streetwalkers (supply) now know the best place to look for it.

I'm not a statist or an idiot so dont pretend like I am attempting to approve of the state.

Well, my comment was in response to an express request for comment on "voluntary alternatives," so I thought the point was valid.  I think from a practical standpoint the way they chose to use force was preferable (although, on second thought, they used the force on the "victims"--aka taxpayers--not the "offenders", and that may not be preferable), but I figured that was obvious--about as obvious as it is that I support neither.

I do agree with the point you've now made, that it may not be out of our control to personally offer incentives to offenders that they might behave better.  I believe Mark did this when he wanted his neighbor to clean up his yard so he could sell his house.  That may be worth dwelling on, though it's not unheard of to offer voluntary drug-treatment charities, etc.

[mikehz]

If these women "can't afford rent" then they must be really ugly or very bad at their craft.

I think it means they can't afford to rent an establishment in which to ply their trade-- not that they can't afford a place to live. 

That's exactly what I mean: They cannot afford to practice in an establishment, which means they are either not very good or not very good looking.

Or, addicted to drugs. Either way, not a good customer choice.

[Bill Brasky]

If these women "can't afford rent" then they must be really ugly or very bad at their craft.

I think it means they can't afford to rent an establishment in which to ply their trade-- not that they can't afford a place to live. 

That's exactly what I mean: They cannot afford to practice in an establishment, which means they are either not very good or not very good looking.

Or, addicted to drugs. Either way, not a good customer choice.

Or they are owned by human traffickers.

Which has nothing to do with skill or physical attractiveness, or addiction. 

What percentage of those women do you think get up in the morning (or late afternoon) and ply their trade willingly, Mike? 

Heres a hint, if they had a place, they could invite men over and fuck them in the comforts of their own apartment - and then they wouldn't have to suck ten dicks a night in a dangerous place for twenty euros a pop.  They are slaves, and live in dorms like army recruits - not unlike the phillipino or mexican immigrants here who live eighteen in a house.  You can't fuck guys in those conditions, because the line would be horrendous, and it would be a meat-machine of twisting asses with no privacy- and johns won't fuck pussy in those conditions.  Nobody fucks pussy barracks style, the pimps kick them out to streetwalk. 

Its completely stupid to assume the majority of those women are there of their own accord. 

Amid that outdoor scene, there are women who dabble.  They might troll the scene to suck three dicks for pocket money, and GTFO.  Or pick up a john for an all-nighter, if they have their own place and try to make a life.  It takes all kinds. 

But the majority are there hustling, full time.  Thats what streetwalkers do.  They suck every dick they can get, all night long, every night.  And they don't go home to a nice, comfy place.  They go home to a barracks, shoot up or just keep rolling wasted, and nod off.  And they don't keep any of their money. 


Its not a barracks in the conventional sense, like in army movies, or prison with steel bunks.  Its just a house with maxed out space.  If they can fit four bunk-beds in the livingroom, they do it.  Two bunkbeds in a regular bedroom is four people.  Thats about twenty people in a typical house.  The pimp gets his own room, and he's the controller of the house, beholden to the lord who has several similar houses.  This is organized crime, and its perfectly obvious that you never invite customers into the house.

The pimp owes a whopping cut to the don.  He feeds and drugs the bitches.  He takes care of details.  He has a floater or two who float among several houses, dispense ass-whoopins above generic level, and take care of more important shit.  In the Italian mafia, they would be capos, and the pimps are street soldiers. 

I'm not sure what part of this scenario you think is a life-choice, when the women are smuggled in from another country, punched and kicked until they totally understand the seriousness of the pimp, and told there are invisible people lurking in the crowd that recognize them and will kill them if they don't return, but the pimps are quite serious.  And I'm pretty sure if I dispensed that level of serious violence towards you, in the corner of your very own kitchen, you'd probably fold into a pile of faggotry and suck every dick I pointed at until you collapsed from exhaustion. 

And if you balk at the statement, I guarantee I could escalate the level of violence to a higher order.  We would agree at my seriousness somewhere, or you would fucking die.  Thats how pimpin' works, and you would suck the dick. 

Nobody seems to get this, and it irritates me a little bit.

[alaric89]

I have never been to Amsterdam. I have been in Germany which has a similar law system on prostitution- its legal in certain districts etc. The thing you seem to forget Drifter, is when something is legal a scumbag like a pimp or human trafficker becomes a regular murderer/rapist/assaulter. The whore simply calls the police when she has a bad customer. Again, I don't know what kind of police they have in Amsterdam. The cops in germany would jack a perp up, and they showed up quick after a call.

[alaric89]

One more point on my freedom kick. In Norway a few years back prostitution was legal although rare. We had little problems with pimps and human traffickers. Now it's illegal and.... now we have problems with pimps and human traffickers.

[Murkan Mike]

Drifters partially right, but what he describes isn't so prevalent in A-Dam, as the prostitution is legal there. I go to A-Dam a lot, and while I don't spend any time in serious negotiation with the Ho's, I do see them out there, and know the difference between asphalt tramps and working girls.  The scenarios he decribes happens more often in eastern europe and scandinavia, where it isn't above board.  I know several prostitutes in Germany, who live pretty regular lives during the day.  It's out east that the cruelty really happens, and who are they going to call for help, the police?  The police run the rackets out east, and Drifter probably describes it well.

I have known Defense Contractors in Bosnia and Kosovo who have bought women for around $2,000 (in 1999).  I mean really bought them, and owned them like chattel slaves.  They had their passports and everything.  They weren't cruel enough to keep the girls though, but they thought they could. 

But not all prostitutes are human slaves. Here in Germany, particularly the former East Germany, there are a lot of women who form a legal company, and incorporate, and prostitute themselves.  That way, they can write off on their taxes their sheets, showers, clothing, renovations, rubbers, and all sorts of things as business expenses.

Pimping doesn't earn a lot when there are legal Ho's out there with clean lean supple bodies, turning tricks for 100 EU ($125) for an hours worth of work.  Who wants a beat up, black eyed, scared and doped up, dirty stinky little infested Ho, when the clean and nice ones are availble?

I can't believe that America still outlaws prostitution.  Is it still legal in Nevada?

[Rillion]

I can't believe that America still outlaws prostitution.  Is it still legal in Nevada?

It was (and still is) only legal in a couple of counties of Nevada.  It's not legal in Las Vegas.