The Free Talk Live BBS
Free Talk Live => General => Topic started by: Looking from outside on February 02, 2013, 11:10:28 PM
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Interesting that he's described as a "cult leader". Still, each time I see that kind of homophobic bigotry and hatred all that I see is someone with the IQ of a rusted nail. I wonder what Dale from FlamingFreedom will have to say. Now if I'm not mistaken Molyneux is highly regarded in the Free Kenne community? If so it would make me rethink the worthiness of that community. Sorry but just being angry as hell at the moment. Anyway, Molyneux can go to hell for all I care and all those that think like him.
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I wonder what Dale from FlamingFreedom will have to say.
http://www.facebook.com/dalebert11/posts/378284658936223 (http://www.facebook.com/dalebert11/posts/378284658936223)
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Good to know. I will absolutely give it a listen. As for Molyneux, he's the kind of bastard that even if he had the key to humanity's freedom I'd still rather cut my wrists than follow him. Thing is that I do believe in this strange idea called freedom of expression but when that freedom tends to leave a trail of blood behind it I say strangle the bastards like him.
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(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/34258582.jpg)
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Dale, I just heard your comment on the After Dark podcast about Molyneux having made a retraction some time ago(?). Even if he made a retraction I still don't give a damn about him. After all, I remember Jerry Falwell making a retraction about his views about gays and then retracting his retractions when he was near death. So, do I believe Molyneux? No. Final. Should be interesting to hear on your tuesday show what you have found out about his "retractions" if he ever made them.
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I think it a little odd that Molyneux is getting so many haters here lately for mere observations. If you know a gay person who was raised in a loving home with a happy, lifetime married couple and had no premature sexual experiences, have the person call in. I think environment has something to do with how you turn out, and I think this is a beautiful thing, so I have no argument against him.
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Wow! The usual "hater" excuse. How about you PROVE to me that nurture is the cause of being gay? And even if it was so it is absolutely NOT an excuse for Molineux's bigotry. By the way, I'm gay.
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I don't care that you are gay. Do you support letting a boy wear a dress, if he asks, at the age of three? Ask Dale what he thinks of forcing children to be straight or gay and the harm it does. Of course nurture has positive or negative effects on children. Dale mentioned how a car wreck turned a former man's man into a person who was as gay as a barrel of monkeys. I don't know. I do applaud Molyneux for being honest about his opinions. Can't we observe a person actually infringing on someone who is a member of a group before we call him a racist?
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I don't hate the guy at all. He makes a lot of good points. It was just a stupid thing to say.
Like saying all black people like fried chicken and watermelon. Shit, who doesn't like chicken and watermelon?
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.........I say strangle the bastards like him.
A bit harsh?
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.........I say strangle the bastards like him.
A bit harsh?
No. Not after having lost a friend who, a few months after he came out to me that he was gay, killed himself because he was gay. No, not after having lived most of my life in that god damn closet most bigots would like to see us stay in for ever. No. Not after I found out that over 300 kids committed suicide in my country in 2011. And a huge number of them were gay. I could add a lot more reasons for my anger but I suspect that I've made my point.
Look, I really am not for strangling bastards like him but it really is how I feel about him and the likes of him. That's what I was refering to when I said that people like him leave a trail of blood behind them. I just don't care how good someone is supposed to be when he is also a bigot.
Harsh? Do you really want me to say exactly what I think of him?
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I don't care that you are gay. Do you support letting a boy wear a dress, if he asks, at the age of three?
Yes and even better, why not? Is it because you fear it will turn him gay?
Ask Dale what he thinks of forcing children to be straight or gay and the harm it does. Of course nurture has positive or negative effects on children. Dale mentioned how a car wreck turned a former man's man into a person who was as gay as a barrel of monkeys. I don't
He probably thinks the same thing I do. Forcing anyone to be gay or straight is just the same as "mind rape." Anyway, you can't force someone to be gay or straight. That is something that has been proven time after time. Look at the "ex-gay" movement and how much of a dismal failure it turned out to be. As for that car accident, what the hell does it have to do with nurturing? As for "as gay as a barrel of monkeys"??? :shock:
I do applaud Molyneux for being honest about his opinions. Can't we observe a person actually infringing on someone who is a member of a group before we call him a racist?
I think we just did in that video.
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Me thinks you should get the chip off your shoulder. I don't like censorship or threatening speech. You have indicated that I have something against gays several times. I don't have any openly gay friends, but I have intervened, with great personal risk, to save gay people from violence and verbal abuse even when I was a young Republican. Stefan is very precise in his speech. Maybe he is full of shit on his theories about NVC and UPB but we don't know at this point, no generation has been raised this way. When something is unproven you can pretty much postulate any thing you want. I actually think raising kids without any challenges or natural anger (although I think spanking unproductive) is a bad idea. What will be awesome is a world where saying "I am a homosexual" means as much in a casual conversation as stating ones shoe size.* That is what both myself and Molyneux are working towards.
*Of course if you are looking for a lover, saying ones sexual preference would be a important fact to get out there. If I am attracted to it.... I would fuck it. So it doesn't really matter in my case. No dicks so far but you never know.....
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Alaric, addressing your points didn't mean I was calling you a homophobe. Maybe it should be you that should get that chip off your shoulder. All that I was saying is that I just don't agree with the idea of nurture being the "cause" of being gay. And since when wanting someone to be made accountable for his words is to be called censorship? You may tapdance all you want around his words to excuse him but I don't tapdance, especially if you say he is so "precise" in his speech. About the tapdancing? No republican innuendo intented. Before you ask I don't believe in this fantasy called politics. Oh, and I'm Canadian, eh!
A point that you and I do agree upon is that "gay" or straight or what ever other sexual orientation one might have should be something irrelevant in how a person is judged or percieved but for the moment it is NOT irrelevant in our society.
By the way, you still haven't answered my question about that boy wanting to wear a dress.
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Anyway, you can't force someone to be gay or straight. That is something that has been proven time after time.
True, but confusion CAN occur with childhood sexual abuse.
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Harsh? Do you really want me to say exactly what I think of him?
Eh, I don't really care either way. I suppose you could if it makes you feel better.
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I pointed out the dress argument to prove that many gays DO have a axe to grind on the nurture argument. If my young son wanted to wear a dress I would have to point out to him that he was misrepresenting himself and why. A parent has a duty to raise their kid in the real world. "You realise if you wear that dress the other kids will make your life a living hell right?"
Keep in mind that other parents judge you. If I knew a gay couple with kids I would suggest they raise their kids in a very conservative way and tell the children why they are doing so. I think they do most of the time anyway. CPS can make a good parents life a living hell.
My parenting style is very truth based.
Ernest Hemingway was forced to wear a dress as a child and he was pretty straight. That is proof enough that a dress wouldn't make someone gay. He was all sorts of messed up though. More sad proof from the Canadian David Reimer phtt://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer (http://phtt://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer). Trying to force someone to be what they are not is definitely bad.
I fact initiation of force always is.
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All men are gay for Link.
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt42etrhRH1qh16rfo1_500.jpg)
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For serious though, people say shit off the cuff that can be taken out of context fairly easily all the time.
If someone went through and grabbed everything Stef has said about fat people you'd have a video ten times as long and ten times as offensive.
"He'd jump on that like a fat kid on a Smartie." is one I've heard from him half a dozen times or so.
But so fucking what? The worst thing you could accuse the dude of is speculation that he identifies openly as speculation and the sort of vague but not malicious ignorance that comes in the flavor of "Some of my best friends are X"
As for the fat people comments, obviously a person's weight is determined by their behavior so you have a stickier situation in regards to the legitimacy of his complaints so it's obviously not an apples to apples comparison, but people see what resonates to their lives, and as a mostly fat guy I notice those sorts of comments more than the comments about homosexuality.
*Waiting to see a troll video compilation of fatty comments*
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(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6805/dcp00110.jpg)
Photo of my Dad about 14 years ago in his homemade glass blowing shop. Strongest man I ever had to deal with. Could walk for miles at a time. Believe it or not he was one of the ground breakers in the survivalist movement started in the 70's. He was kind of a Rhodes scholar of practical skills. He died this summer in a head on collision. My Mom was passenger in the minivan and survived. He couldn't get any more to the right before the pickup hit them because of the guard rail.
I don't tell a lot of fat jokes.
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I don't make fat jokes because I'm fat. :-P
And I'm sorry for your loss yo. :-(
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I laugh at good-natured jokes about gay stereotypes. But just swap minorities. Imagine a guy who just decides to share his speculations and theories about black people or Mexicans based on his personal anecdotal experiences.
"The black people I've known were always thieves."
"The Mexicans I've known were always lazy."
"The gay people I've know were always promiscuous."
I think that would be pretty offensive and such a guy would come across as pretty ignorant for speculating in such a manner.
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All men are gay for Link.
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt42etrhRH1qh16rfo1_500.jpg)
I'd put my sword in him, balls deep.
I mean hilt deep.
Yeah.
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I laugh at good-natured jokes about gay stereotypes. But just swap minorities. Imagine a guy who just decides to share his speculations and theories about black people or Mexicans based on his personal anecdotal experiences.
"The black people I've known were always thieves."
"The Mexicans I've known were always lazy."
"The gay people I've know were always promiscuous."
I think that would be pretty offensive and such a guy would come across as pretty ignorant for speculating in such a manner.
I don't find it offensive when people do that. I do question WHY they would even bother keeping tabs on who does what, based on someones ethnicity or sexual orientation though.
We just need to get past the bullshit of categorizing people in the first place. The rest would take care of itself.
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"The gay people I've know were always promiscuous."
Might go hand in hand with the idea that Men always/only want sex.
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I dunno man. Sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and GTFO.
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I dunno man. Sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and GTFO.
:lol:
Heh, okay, let me be more specific. I am saying that its a 'commonly held assumption'. Thing is its just that: an assumption. A rather moronic one when you even spend a few minutes researching human mating and why men/women are wired different.
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"The gay people I've know were always promiscuous."
Might go hand in hand with the idea that Men always/only want sex.
And so were the straight men I've known. If it moved they would go after it. Straights when attacking gays by pointing out their supposed faults always forget to look at their own faults. How convenient!
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And so were the straight men I've known.
:points to his post:
I am agreeing with you. Saying that gay men are always promiscuous is a stupid assumption, just as saying that men only/always want sex. Its one of those things that everyone thinks is axiomatic but is really just stupidly embedded morality (Original Sin in another form) of our culture.
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I will say that I do believe that in general, men are more promiscuous, simply because of fucked up standards set up by society. A guy that goes out slinging dick around is seen as a player and gets hi-fives from his friends for his conquests. I know. I went through that stage myself and never got the evil-finger pointed at me....not even once, from anyone. A woman that does the same thing gets called a whore.
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I would like to say, for the record, I have been vehemently opposed to this bloviated fuckwit since 2006.
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2011/04/05/Web-Resampled/2011-04-05/1896193--606x404.jpg)
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Lots of numbers and statistics, lots of hot air. What I find disturbing is the incredibly supposedly low number of gays in actuality. I suspect that someone is trying to erase a part of the population. Interestingly, when I googled for those numbers a lot of "religiously based" websites popped up all supporting 1% or less of gays in the population. Sorry but I don't buy it.
Maybe he's honest about his new found "acceptance" of gays but all I see is a Falwell moment.
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The bald bastuhd. Why I oughta...
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Just heard him on sunday's show podcast. Tapdancing is all I heard. His apologies are refused.
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Just heard him on sunday's show podcast. Tapdancing is all I heard. His apologies are refused.
Did they bring this subject up? Ugh, do I need to listen to this?
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Just heard him on sunday's show podcast. Tapdancing is all I heard. His apologies are refused.
I read your post then listened to the podcast, expecting NOT a retraction, a update and a straight up apology, with a promise to add a disclaimer to the podcast everybody is bitching about. It is not possible to make you happy. I assume anyone else wanting to be in a special group that no one gets to talk about can never be happy either. Talking to people who look for something to make them feel oppressed is a waste of time.
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Not a listener to Stefan Molyneux, I've heard him a few times in the past, but this thread caused me to make an account after listening to the "bigoted" commentary. I just gotta say, with regard to some of the posters in this thread, WOW! Talk about an over-reaction...
Homosexuality, and it's part in the human condition, is little understood, and frankly the entire discussion has been reduced to "if you don't think it is entirely a genetic condition, then you are a bigoted homo-phobe who is probably still in the closet". Talk about argument from intimidation. It is disgusting to see, and honestly disappointing to me that it is coming from the "liberty community". This is the same kind of crap that has made objective discussion about things like Global Warming literally impossible. Whatever happened to the marketplace of ideas?
The man isn't advocating anything, he is merely commenting on his personal observations; even if they are limited and obviously skewed. At no point does he denigrate the LGBT community, nor does he advocate anything that would harm the freedoms or safety of people within the LGBT community. Sorry, but I don't see anything wrong with human beings working to better understand a particular sexual orientation and the roots for such behavior. I mean, you could engage him in conversation to either discuss further, or provide contrary evidence to his experiences. No contrary position is even taken, merely ad-hominem attacks designed to silence speech which is not in line with an individual's opinion. Sadly, these days, it is all too common, just severely disturbing nonetheless.
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Not a listener to Stefan Molyneux, I've heard him a few times in the past, but this thread caused me to make an account after listening to the "bigoted" commentary. I just gotta say, with regard to some of the posters in this thread, WOW! Talk about an over-reaction...
Homosexuality, and it's part in the human condition, is little understood, and frankly the entire discussion has been reduced to "if you don't think it is entirely a genetic condition, then you are a bigoted homo-phobe who is probably still in the closet". Talk about argument from intimidation. It is disgusting to see, and honestly disappointing to me that it is coming from the "liberty community". This is the same kind of crap that has made objective discussion about things like Global Warming literally impossible. Whatever happened to the marketplace of ideas?
The man isn't advocating anything, he is merely commenting on his personal observations; even if they are limited and obviously skewed. At no point does he denigrate the LGBT community, nor does he advocate anything that would harm the freedoms or safety of people within the LGBT community. Sorry, but I don't see anything wrong with human beings working to better understand a particular sexual orientation and the roots for such behavior. I mean, you could engage him in conversation to either discuss further, or provide contrary evidence to his experiences. No contrary position is even taken, merely ad-hominem attacks designed to silence speech which is not in line with an individual's opinion. Sadly, these days, it is all too common, just severely disturbing nonetheless.
LOUIS C.K. - FAGGOT - CHEWED UP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IFloXOuLgA#)
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Not a listener to Stefan Molyneux, I've heard him a few times in the past, but this thread caused me to make an account after listening to the "bigoted" commentary. I just gotta say, with regard to some of the posters in this thread, WOW! Talk about an over-reaction...
Homosexuality, and it's part in the human condition, is little understood, and frankly the entire discussion has been reduced to "if you don't think it is entirely a genetic condition, then you are a bigoted homo-phobe who is probably still in the closet". Talk about argument from intimidation. It is disgusting to see, and honestly disappointing to me that it is coming from the "liberty community". This is the same kind of crap that has made objective discussion about things like Global Warming literally impossible. Whatever happened to the marketplace of ideas?
The man isn't advocating anything, he is merely commenting on his personal observations; even if they are limited and obviously skewed. At no point does he denigrate the LGBT community, nor does he advocate anything that would harm the freedoms or safety of people within the LGBT community. Sorry, but I don't see anything wrong with human beings working to better understand a particular sexual orientation and the roots for such behavior. I mean, you could engage him in conversation to either discuss further, or provide contrary evidence to his experiences. No contrary position is even taken, merely ad-hominem attacks designed to silence speech which is not in line with an individual's opinion. Sadly, these days, it is all too common, just severely disturbing nonetheless.
I can't speak for anyone else. I don't believe I ever called him a bigot though please quote me if I'm mistaken. What I said was his "display of ignorance" was "disturbing". I think I had higher standards for him in particular. I thought it more rational to take a few minutes to Google a subject and get some readily available data rather than speak in ignorance as he did on anecdotal experiences that were really negative.
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Dale, would comfort play into this?
I mean, I am ok with talking to another Jewish person about the origins of Jewish stereotypes, but I would just have no interest in having that same conversation with a non-Jew. It would be a bit grating to parse yourself apart like a lab specimen for someone else to see. I can totally understand that.
I would imagine that its equally difficult to talk to a black person about the relatively high crime levels in their communities. They might be more comfortable talking to another black person about it, but involving others could be seen as patronizing.
Dale, what thinks you?
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Dale, what thinks you?
No.
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Dale, what thinks you?
No.
pacmandies.sound/