Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  Speaking of Sharia law, apparently if someone paralyzes you you can paralyze him
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Speaking of Sharia law, apparently if someone paralyzes you you can paralyze him  (Read 12475 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TimeLady Victorious

  • Aprilicious
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3837
    • View Profile

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100819/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_saudi_justice

  By SALAH NASRAWI, Associated Press Writer Salah Nasrawi, Associated Press Writer   – Thu Aug 19, 3:26 pm ET

CAIRO – A Saudi judge has asked several hospitals in the country whether they could damage a man's spinal cord as punishment after he was convicted of attacking another man with a cleaver and paralyzing him, the brother of the victim said Thursday.

Abdul-Aziz al-Mutairi, 22, was left paralyzed and subsequently lost a foot after a fight more than two years ago. He asked a judge in northwestern Tabuk province to impose an equivalent punishment on his attacker under Islamic law, his brother Khaled al-Mutairi told The Associated Press by telephone from there.

He said one of the hospitals, located in Tabuk, responded that it is possible to damage the spinal cord, but it added that the operation would have to be done at another more specialized facility. Saudi newspapers reported that a second hospital in the capital Riyadh declined, saying it could not inflict such harm.

Administrative offices of two of the hospitals and the court in Tabuk were closed for the Saudi weekend beginning Thursday and could not be reached for comment.

A copy of the medical report from the King Khaled Hospital in Tabuk province obtained by the AP said the same injury al-Mutairi suffers from can be inflicted on his attacker using a nerve stimulant, and inducing the same injuries in the same locations. The report was dated six months ago.

Saudi Arabia enforces strict Islamic law and occasionally doles out punishments based on the ancient legal code of an eye-for-an-eye. However, King Abdullah has been trying to clamp down on extremist ideology, including unauthorized clerics issuing odd religious decrees.

The query by the court, among the most unusual and extreme to have been made public in the kingdom, highlights the delicate attempt in Saudi Arabia to balance a push to modernize the country with interpretations of religious traditions that critics say are out of sync with a modern society.

The Saudi newspaper Okaz identified the judge as Saoud bin Suleiman al-Youssef.

The brother said the judge asked at least two hospitals for a medical opinion on whether surgeons could render the attacker's spinal cord nonfunctional. He and Saudi newspaper reports did not identify the attacker

Khaled al-Mutairi, 27, said the assailant was sentenced to 14 months in prison for the attack that paralyzed his younger brother, but he was released after seven months in an amnesty. He said the attacker then got a job as a school teacher .

"We are asking for our legal right under Islamic law," the brother said. "There is no better word than God's word — an eye for an eye."

A Saudi newspaper Okaz reported that a leading hospital in Riyadh — King Faisal Specialist Hospital — responded that it could not do the operation. It quoted a letter from the hospital saying "inflicting such harm is not possible," apparently refusing on ethical grounds.

Islamic law applied in Saudi Arabia allows defendants to ask for a similar punishment for harms inflicted on them. Cutting off the hands of thieves, for example, is common.

Under the law, the victim can receive a blood money to settle the case.

Khaled al-Mutairi said his family is not interested in blood money, and would be ready to send the attacker abroad to perform the operation if it were not possible in the kingdom.

Human rights group say trials in Saudi Arabia fall far below international standards. They usually take place behind closed doors and without adequate legal representation.

Those who are sentenced to death are often not informed of the progress of legal proceedings against them or of the date of execution until the morning on which they are taken out and beheaded.

Crucifying the headless body in a public place is a way to set an example, according to the kingdom's strict interpretation of Islam.

Amnesty International expressed concerns over the reports and said the rights group was contacting Saudi authorities for details.

"We are very concerned and we will appeal to the authorities not to carry out such a punishment," said Lamri Chirouf, the group's researcher on Saudi Arabia. Such measures are against international conventions against torture and international standards on human rights.

Chirouf said this was the first time Amnesty had heard of a punishment involving the damaging of a spinal cord.

"But it's hard to follow details of the Saudi justice system. People are sentenced in closed trials with no access to the public and no lawyers," he said.

According to Amnesty, in 2005, a convict in the kingdom had his teeth pulled out by a dentist because he had smashed another man's teeth out in a fight.

"We have also had cases of people sentenced to blindness because they have caused the blindness of another person," Chirouf said. "But never anything involving a spinal cord."

____

Associated Press Writer Sarah El Deeb contributed to this report from Cairo.
Logged
ENGAGE RIDLEY MOTHER FUCKER

Terror Australis

  • Bitcoin Evangelist
  • FTL AMPlifier
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1181
  • People cannot be coerced into freedom.
    • View Profile
    • Bitcoin

A better punishment would be the guy who is not paralyzed has to carry the paralyzed guy around for the rest of his life, or untill they can repair his spine.
Logged
User generated content + bitcoin = http://witcoin.com

Turd Ferguson

  • Opportunist Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4085
    • View Profile
    • https://twitter.com/#!/realmikequick

A better punishment would be the guy who is not paralyzed has to carry the paralyzed guy around for the rest of his life, or untill they can repair his spine.

Yeah, I could go for that sorta thing. Feed the fucker grapes and stuff, basically be his personal slave till the cure comes along.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2010, 08:30:33 PM by quickmike »
Logged
Some peoples idea of hell is having to mind their own business.

avshae

  • Guest

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100819/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_saudi_justice

  By SALAH NASRAWI, Associated Press Writer Salah Nasrawi, Associated Press Writer   – Thu Aug 19, 3:26 pm ET

CAIRO – A Saudi judge has asked several hospitals in the country whether they could damage a man's spinal cord as punishment after he was convicted of attacking another man with a cleaver and paralyzing him, the brother of the victim said Thursday.


This gives key insight to typical Muslim thought, and why it is all but impossible to negotiate peace with an Islamic radical. NEVER EVER in history have Islamic radicals EVER reached peace with another party. It's all about the constant violent Jihad with these types - generation after generation of pointless bloodshed, even among each other. Regardless of how much self-destruction it brings to their own society. Have you ever wondered why this is so?

The above piece gives insight. Muslim society generally cannot tell the difference between well-being of the society, and some rival society's tragedy. Its also evident on a personal level. A person thinks he is better off if his "enemy" is worse off. What does a paraplegic gain from having his own perpetrator paralyzed as retribution? Nothing. Will he get better? No. Will he be able to get it up again. No. Will he get his life back as it was before No.

But still instead if suing the guy for compensation money so that one day when there is a cure he would be able to afford it, his peak aspiration in life is to paralyze the offender as well. Typical Muslim/Arab culture in a nutshell.


Logged

libertylover

  • No Title Needed
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3791
    • View Profile

A better punishment would be the guy who is not paralyzed has to carry the paralyzed guy around for the rest of his life, or untill they can repair his spine.

Yeah, I could go for that sorta thing. Feed the fucker grapes and stuff, basically be his personal slave till the cure comes alone.

Wouldn't it be pretty safe to assume these guys don't like eachother.  Seems like it would be a very hostile work environment.  Making him pay for around the clock care.  Taking any property this guy may have to contribute to a victim's trust fund would be another good idea.  And that is what is called blood money under Islamic law.  The victim could have opted for that but obviously this guy wants revenge on the person who attacked him leaving paralyzed.

The bible says an eye for an eye.  It is part of the old testament and most likely where the Islamic law is inspired from.   Through the lens of the Western culture.  It would be considered cruel and an unusual punishment.  Yet in the Middle East physical punishments are seen as better than the sorts of lengthy prison sentences imposed in America.    It is a cultural difference to be sure.   Actually the use of physical punishment over incarceration is not unheard of in the East.  Even in Non-Islamic countries.  India, Burma, Thailand all have physical punishments instead of incarceration for various crimes.   

Granted some Islamic authoritarian regimes take it to an extreme. (Note* There are non-Islamic Countries that also take it the extreme.) But the article also said that Islamic doctors refused to go along.  And that the Monarch is attempting to talk the victim out of it because he wants to present a more modern image of Saudi Arabia.   It takes time to shift a cultural  but the preceding two points are steps in the right direction.
Logged

TimeLady Victorious

  • Aprilicious
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3837
    • View Profile

So yeah, do you ever get tired of being an Islamic apologist?
Logged
ENGAGE RIDLEY MOTHER FUCKER

Turd Ferguson

  • Opportunist Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4085
    • View Profile
    • https://twitter.com/#!/realmikequick

So yeah, do you ever get tired of being an Islamic apologist?

I actually see the point and agree for the most part with Libertylover on this, only difference between us is probably the fact that I really just dont give a fuck about the offenders comfort and well being at all. If the victim wants the agressor to be his personal slave for  payment, who am I to say that it would be an uncomfortable situation. If the victim wants to see the offender up his ass 24/7, with him everywhere he goes, thats fine by me, but once he makes that decision he cant turn around and say "ya know what, I dont really like this guy being with me all the time cuz hes really an asshole and gets on my nerves". At that point its too late to go back on the deal and change your mind. If the victim wants to end the offender/victim work relationship, the offender goes free. Once he changes his mind, that negates all contract and the offender gets a get out of jail free card, so make your decision wisely.

I personally dont give a fuck about what any form of justice traces its religion back to. I just believe in making a victim compensated fully for his loss of property + time and trouble incurred due to the offender, and if that means letting the asshole do your laundry and clean your house for life, if it fits the crime, im all for it if the victim chooses that route.
Logged
Some peoples idea of hell is having to mind their own business.

libertylover

  • No Title Needed
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3791
    • View Profile

So yeah, do you ever get tired of being an Islamic apologist?

Considering you claim to be an atheist.  You never seem to get tired of promoting Zionist propaganda that some how Islamic countries and people are much worse than other countries and people.  Then attempt to prove this by pointing out cultural differences. 

It is kind of like when the Christian missionaries would get all bend out of shape about natives.  They would point to their lack of modesty or their differing concept of justice as proof they needed to be taken over.  This take over usually involved killing most of them then stealing their land and natural resources.   

Lets say a violent attacker who caused paralysis had a choice of punishments between.  Becoming paralyzed or being placed in an American prison for 22 years.  Later having that sentence converted to life once the victim dies.  Don't forget that American prisons are known for rape.  So the choice is paralyzed and free or potentially a rape cage for life.  And you can't comprehend how different cultures would view these two options differently.

The thing missing in American justice is an effective blood money system.  Victims are rarely compensated for the injuries caused to them by their attackers.  There is civil court if the criminal is rich.  But you don't have to look any farther than OJ to see how badly that system fails.  Justice is a very difficult thing when the crime is so horrific and damaging.

Just for a little more perspective a person who attacks someone causing this sort of injury in China would get the death penalty and then have their organs harvested.   Most of China's death penalty crimes are for crimes against the state like tax evasion, smuggling precious metals or drug possession.  But do go on and tell us how a country where the Doctors are refusing and the Leading official is trying to convince the victim to take blood money over revenge is so much more barbaric. 
Logged

TimeLady Victorious

  • Aprilicious
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3837
    • View Profile

Well a country that would even have this judgement on the books in the first place and have the judgement passed by a religious official using their holy book as basis for it is pretty fucking barbaric to begin with.
Logged
ENGAGE RIDLEY MOTHER FUCKER

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

  • A Cut Above The Rest
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8299
  • If government is the answer, the question is stupi
    • View Profile

See how LL draws every single post of hers back to the Jews?  :shock: :?  Pretty weak.  But it's because she's a bigot.

That said, I think this whole topic is fucked up.  I mean, I can feel for the guy wanting the offender paralyzed as well for sure.  Morally I don't see a gigantic problem with it.  But ethically I think it seems pretty fucked up and stupid.  I certainly wouldn't ever do that.  I like the idea of having the offender carry the dude around and feed him grapes instead.  Or forfeit all of his property and a portion of all of his future earnings.  Something like that.  Paralyzing the dude though?  That just seems... barbaric.  While it may be somewhat morally acceptable it just seems fucked up and to imagine a government that would accept such a thing is really twisted.  Defending that government would be even more fucked up. But we have LL to do that for us so who really cares?
Logged
"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

hellbilly

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6664
  • Pogue Mahone.
    • View Profile

It troubles me that they're asking doctors, who are supposed to help people, cooperate ion the punishment.

Anyone know what the trouble was between these two?

..actually, on that note, and maybe LL can answer this, if Islam is not just a religion but a way of life that also encompasses politics, banking, etc., then with thousands of years to get the kinks worked out, why the constant violence?
Logged
Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

"We are profoundly dissatisfied with pretty much everything but we can’t articulate why, and are unable to offer any viable alternative." - Nathaniel Weiner

TimeLady Victorious

  • Aprilicious
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3837
    • View Profile

It troubles me that they're asking doctors, who are supposed to help people, cooperate ion the punishment.

Anyone know what the trouble was between these two?

..actually, on that note, and maybe LL can answer this, if Islam is not just a religion but a way of life that also encompasses politics, banking, etc., then with thousands of years to get the kinks worked out, why the constant violence?

It's because of the Jews.

Clearly.

Time-travelling Israelies!
Logged
ENGAGE RIDLEY MOTHER FUCKER

Alex Libman

  • Guest

Restitution-based justice system.

</thread>
Logged

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

  • A Cut Above The Rest
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8299
  • If government is the answer, the question is stupi
    • View Profile

It troubles me that they're asking doctors, who are supposed to help people, cooperate ion the punishment.

Anyone know what the trouble was between these two?

..actually, on that note, and maybe LL can answer this, if Islam is not just a religion but a way of life that also encompasses politics, banking, etc., then with thousands of years to get the kinks worked out, why the constant violence?

It's because of the Jews.

Clearly.

Time-travelling Israelies!
Well technically it's 1300 years, but yeah the answer is "The Jews".  Meh.

Restitution based system ftw.  But of course eye for an eye is biblically based.  And I don't see a moral objection to eye for an eye, just an ethical objection.
Logged
"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Riddler

  • Guest

i keep saying it.
these fucking muslims are trapped in the 1500's.
the rest of the world has passed them by, but they still think sea serpents swallow ships whole.

the only aspect of modernty(?) modernity(?), they espouse, is using the automobile as a mobile bomb & cell phones to detonate their bombs
(alla would have approved)
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  Speaking of Sharia law, apparently if someone paralyzes you you can paralyze him

// ]]>

Page created in 0.022 seconds with 31 queries.