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Author Topic: Software Freedom Scale  (Read 36235 times)

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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Software Freedom Scale
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2009, 01:19:53 AM »

Software licensing depends on coersive force. They all suck.

As I refuse to comply with unethical laws, I merely ignore all license and do what I want anyway.

yes, this was my point
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AL the Inconspicuous

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Re: Software Freedom Scale
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2009, 02:03:00 AM »

Yes, but it would make more sense to invest your time and learning / coding effort into software components that are the least likely to initiate aggression against you or others (lowest on the "Software Tyranny Level" list above).

In the "free software" world, this means choosing Python / Tcl / Lua over GPL'ed scripting languages like Ruby, for example,  or PostgreSQL / SQLite over MySQL,  BSD / MINIX over Linux kernel,  Xiph over other audio / video codecs,  vim / mg over GNU Emacsen,  IntelliJ IDEA Community Edition over Eclipse over NetBeans,  a future stable Chromium fork over Firefox,  Harmony over other JVM's, Rasterbar's library over full-GPL BT clients, etc, etc, etc.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 02:05:36 AM by Alex Libman »
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Software Freedom Scale
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2009, 03:35:43 AM »

The GNU is something I will never give a damn about.
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Zhwazi

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Re: Software Freedom Scale
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2009, 07:45:32 AM »

I think it's funny how the FSF calls BSD licenses "permissive" without calling the GPL "restrictive", preferring to call itself "copyleft". Doublespeak muchwise?

I'm not sure what will happen first, GPL's deliberate incompatiblity with everything driving Linux users bonkers until they get so frustrated with Linux's poor reimplementations, or the GPL actually being tested in court, found inconsistent, and getting thrown out for being the bullshit it is.

I'm entertained by how Stallman has actually argued in OPPOSITION to the pirate party who wants everything to be public-domain after 5 years because then all GNU code would be unprotected by the GPL if it's more than 5 years old.
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AL the Inconspicuous

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Re: Software Freedom Scale
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2009, 11:33:25 AM »

I didn't know that...  What an asshole...  :x

Unfortunately the FOSS world is stuck with some copyleft components that are still pretty much impossible to replace, like gcc for example, and pretty much anything desktop-related.  I just tried the latest snapshots of E17 again - still sucks.  :cry:


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Zhwazi

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Re: Software Freedom Scale
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2009, 01:47:36 PM »

I didn't know that...  What an asshole...  :x

Unfortunately the FOSS world is stuck with some copyleft components that are still pretty much impossible to replace, like gcc for example, and pretty much anything desktop-related.  I just tried the latest snapshots of E17 again - still sucks.  :cry:
OpenBSD and NetBSD people are trying to make PCC a viable alternative (they don't like how GCC keeps dropping support for architectures they need it to support), OpenSolaris already uses Sun's compiler instead (though I don't think it's open source), and FreeBSD is trying to get itself to compile completely with Clang/LLVM ("almost works" except any C++). I even heard talk that Linux is trying to get itself independent from GCC, though not as hard as other free OSes are.

All hope is not yet lost!
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AL the Inconspicuous

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Re: Software Freedom Scale
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2009, 02:54:09 PM »

Yeah, I'm watching the Clang / LLVM projects and the attempts to integrate them into BSD with great anticipation, but it will probably take a couple of years before all ports can be reliably compiled and the GNU compiler / toolchain can be abandoned completely.

By the way, it's starting to look like Python will be the major scripting language of a GNU-free UNIX OS.  Once again, the corporate hero there is Google with its unladen-swallow project (which also uses LLVM).  Python is also the easiest way to script libtorrent / python-ogg, because all major front-ends for those BSD libraries are either copyleft themselves or have copyleft dependencies.

I'm a big fan of Ousterhout's dichotomy - a language should either be system-oriented or scripting oriented.  Unfortunately there's also a dichotomy between generations: the current (C for systems, Python for scripting) and Google's vision for the future (Go for systems, Web client / server-side JavaScript for scripting) - so that's 4 languages to be concerned with.  Everything else (Java, Obj-C / C++, perl, ruby, PHP, lua, tcl, bash scripts, etc) should be phased out, the sooner the better.  The older generation will be around for a long time, until JavaScript gradually gets more libraries than Python / PHP, and all systems software (including the kernels) are rewritten in Go.  Then - singularity!  :lol:

« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 03:02:05 PM by Alex Libman »
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Zhwazi

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Re: Software Freedom Scale
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2009, 12:05:12 AM »

Yeah, I'm watching the Clang / LLVM projects and the attempts to integrate them into BSD with great anticipation, but it will probably take a couple of years before all ports can be reliably compiled and the GNU compiler / toolchain can be abandoned completely.

By the way, it's starting to look like Python will be the major scripting language of a GNU-free UNIX OS.  Once again, the corporate hero there is Google with its unladen-swallow project (which also uses LLVM).  Python is also the easiest way to script libtorrent / python-ogg, because all major front-ends for those BSD libraries are either copyleft themselves or have copyleft dependencies.

I'm a big fan of Ousterhout's dichotomy - a language should either be system-oriented or scripting oriented.  Unfortunately there's also a dichotomy between generations: the current (C for systems, Python for scripting) and Google's vision for the future (Go for systems, Web client / server-side JavaScript for scripting) - so that's 4 languages to be concerned with.  Everything else (Java, Obj-C / C++, perl, ruby, PHP, lua, tcl, bash scripts, etc) should be phased out, the sooner the better.  The older generation will be around for a long time, until JavaScript gradually gets more libraries than Python / PHP, and all systems software (including the kernels) are rewritten in Go.  Then - singularity!  :lol:

I wouldn't be disappointed with C and Python ruling the world together. :P
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Software Freedom Scale
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2009, 12:13:57 AM »

Software freedom...

If it's run on a "cloud", it ain't free.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

AL the Inconspicuous

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Re: Software Freedom Scale
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2009, 04:13:04 AM »

I wouldn't be disappointed with C and Python ruling the world together.  :P

Neither would I, but...  [moved rant to a more appropriate thread].


If it's run on a "cloud", it ain't free.

I'm talking about the software, not the services.  If the software is BSD-licensed then there's nothing Google can put in them that a fork cannot remove.

And it also depends on who runs the cloud.  If it's a government-licensed corporation, definitely not - we're talking Big Brother 2.0 here.  But if it's FreeStaterNet, a wireless P2P mesh meant to stay resilient even if the whole Internet disappears, a local "friendly cloud" can be a very good thing.  You're not going to host a mirror of Wikipedia and 1000s of other relevant Web sites, FTP servers, mailing lists, etc in your own basement, are you?  If you would - awesome, but most people would not, thus if you're willing to share your IT resources with them then you would become their "cloud", like a SysOP of a dial-up BBS in the olden days.  (Ah, memories...)  There are many new and evolving ideas for setting up locally-owned government-proof communications infrastructure like that.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 04:15:20 AM by Alex Libman »
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Software Freedom Scale
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2009, 04:14:28 AM »

Fuck clouds.  And you can quote me on that.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

AL the Inconspicuous

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Re: Software Freedom Scale
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2009, 01:52:30 AM »

From Slashdot -- Palm Sued Over Palm Pre GPL Violation --

Quote
Palm is being sued by Artifex Software over the PDF viewer in Palm's Pre smartphone, which may violate the GNU GPL.  Artifex alleges that Palm has copied Artifex's PDF rendering engine, called muPDF, and integrated it into the Palm Pre's PDF viewer application without the proper licensing conditions.  The entire application must be licensed under the GPL if muPDF is part of the application.  [...]
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AL the Inconspicuous

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Re: Software Freedom Scale
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2009, 01:07:53 AM »

From Slashdot -- SFLC Sues 14 Companies For BusyBox GPL Violations --

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The Software Freedom Law Center has filed a lawsuit accusing fourteen companies, including Best Buy, Samsung and Westinghouse, of violating the GPL in nearly 20 separate products. This is similar to earlier BusyBox GPL suits. The commercial uses of BusyBox must be much more prolific than anyone could have imagined. Having dealt with hundreds of compliance problems and finding an average of one violation per day, the SFLC recommends one thing: be responsive to their requests (they try to settle things in private first) lest you find one of these (PDF) in your inbox.


My daily rant:  Restrictive licenses like (L)GPL rely on government force, which makes it no different ethically than proprietary software, and its viral and economically unsustainable nature makes it even worse!  Only permissively-licensed software like BSD and Apache is truly "free", and there's nothing wrong with using proprietary software if it makes economic sense to do so.  Software freedom should be driven by free market competition, not government force!


EDIT: an update from Slashdot -- Busybox Developer Responds To Andersen-SFLC Lawsuits --

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"I'm the creator of the Busybox program.  I have released a statement on the past and current Busybox lawsuits, which do not represent my interest."
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 11:50:24 PM by Alex Libman »
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AL the Inconspicuous

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Re: Software Freedom Scale
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2009, 11:56:45 PM »

From another thread -

I didn't come to UbuntuForums.org to be a troll, but my outspokenness on Global Warming and especially on restrictive vs permissive "free" software licensing issues [2] will probably get me "in trouble" once again.  [...]

My experiences in trying to debate GPL worshipers have been so negative (this time they just locked my thread and deleted by best posts - hours of hard work down the drain) that I'm thinking of quitting all GPL software cold turkey.  I'm not sure I can do this yet without going back to Microsoft (which is much less evil, but nonetheless evil)...  There are many software components for which permissively-licensed equivalents simply don't exist...  :cry:
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 12:06:38 AM by Alex Libman »
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AL the Inconspicuous

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Re: Software Freedom Scale
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2009, 04:55:19 PM »

The Ubuntu fascists continued to censor any discussion of software freedom philosophy on their forum and mercilessly deleting my posts, locking threads, etc.  I swear, the next time I see a person call Linux "free software" I'll cut his fucking balls off!  :x


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