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Author Topic: Social Contract  (Read 3250 times)

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LTKoblinsky

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Social Contract
« on: September 11, 2010, 03:14:11 AM »

     For some reason, I've always looked at the social contract as a theory asserting some agreement was made by our ancestors and thus we are bound to it. When looked at that way, it seems ridiculous. 
     I was reading Thomas DiLorenzo's "How Capitalism Saved America" and he presented it in a different light.  According to him, the social contract is a continuously renewing agreement. Individuals choose to participate in society in exchange for the perceived benefits of that society. When those benefits are perceived to be diminished, it is more likely that people will stop participating in that society.
     In this way, many Americans gladly participate in the US civic system because the believe it grants them a place in the "land of the free" with "inalienable rights." As government continues to move away from these terms, more people are beginning to balk.
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Social Contract
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2010, 12:47:47 PM »

I can see that there really is a social contract, and one that makes perfect sense: You don't fuck with me and I don't fuck with you (the non-aggression principle.)  If you think about it, it's what we're taught when we're toddlers.  

"Johnny, don't fuck with Timmy's stuff without permission.  You don't want him to fuck with your stuff, right?"  

"Jenny, don't hit your little brother.  In a few years, he'll be bigger than you, and you won't want him whaling on you then."

"Don't touch that--it's not yours."

This is the social contract (and it has its basis in natural law.)  The other one is bullshit.
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Pizzly

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Re: Social Contract
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2010, 12:48:17 PM »

A social contract would be something like walking into a restaurant and ordering a cheesesteak. You eat it, and even though you may have made no formal contract, it is expected you pay. The idea that merely exisitng in a geographic area is a voluntary agreement to be enslaved and murdered, is childish logic. Hell, I don't even know if children are that idiotic.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 12:53:02 PM by Pizzly »
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Peace isn't loving your neighbor, peace is simply not killing them.

Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Social Contract
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2010, 12:52:41 PM »

A social contract would be something like walking into a restaurant and ordering a cheesesteak. You eat it, and even though you may have made no formal contract, it is expected you pay. The idea that merely exisitng in a geographic area is a voluntary agreement to be enslaved and murdered, needs to think past the childish logic. Hell, I don't even know if children are that idiotic.

The restaurant thing is an aspect of the above social contract.  Not paying is fucking with other people's stuff.  On the other hand, not giving the price and then overcharging is probably violating the same contract.


Think: typical hospital bills before insurance "adjustments"
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 12:54:23 PM by What's the frequency, Kenneth? »
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LTKoblinsky

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Re: Social Contract
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2010, 01:56:35 PM »

I can see that there really is a social contract, and one that makes perfect sense: You don't fuck with me and I don't fuck with you (the non-aggression principle.)  If you think about it, it's what we're taught when we're toddlers.  

"Johnny, don't fuck with Timmy's stuff without permission.  You don't want him to fuck with your stuff, right?"  

"Jenny, don't hit your little brother.  In a few years, he'll be bigger than you, and you won't want him whaling on you then."

"Don't touch that--it's not yours."

This is the social contract (and it has its basis in natural law.)  The other one is bullshit.
I think yours is stuck at the concrete concept level...Its overly simplistic and leaves a lot of the nuances of human interaction out.  The social contract I described is just taking the concretes we learn as a child, i.e. don't touch, not mine, and applying them in a more abstract, complex way to produce better results.
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Social Contract
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2010, 02:33:11 PM »

If you can't stand living in a society, don't bother living in it. That's the way I feel.
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Pizzly

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Re: Social Contract
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2010, 02:50:04 PM »

If you can't stand living in a society, don't bother living in it. That's the way I feel.

The problem is not everyone has the choice. People are often bound to remain in the territory, against their will.
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Social Contract
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2010, 03:09:42 PM »

If you can't stand living in a society, don't bother living in it. That's the way I feel.

The problem is not everyone has the choice. People are often bound to remain in the territory, against their will.

Everyone has a choice.

If you don't want to leave because of your stuff or because of your family, then you are still consenting to live there.
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mrapplecastle

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Re: Social Contract
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2010, 03:12:01 PM »

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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Social Contract
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2010, 04:31:00 PM »

I can see that there really is a social contract, and one that makes perfect sense: You don't fuck with me and I don't fuck with you (the non-aggression principle.)  If you think about it, it's what we're taught when we're toddlers.  

"Johnny, don't fuck with Timmy's stuff without permission.  You don't want him to fuck with your stuff, right?"  

"Jenny, don't hit your little brother.  In a few years, he'll be bigger than you, and you won't want him whaling on you then."

"Don't touch that--it's not yours."

This is the social contract (and it has its basis in natural law.)  The other one is bullshit.
I think yours is stuck at the concrete concept level...Its overly simplistic and leaves a lot of the nuances of human interaction out.  The social contract I described is just taking the concretes we learn as a child, i.e. don't touch, not mine, and applying them in a more abstract, complex way to produce better results.

That "concrete level" is simply all there can be without a real contract.  "Nuances" are what real contracts are for.  If you didn't get it, property is the only thing it's "natural" to respect.  All the other stuff, as you pointed out, is nuance.  Besides, if it's a "contract" then there's a graceful way out, and there's clearly no place on the "turf" of the gang known as the United States where you can have your property respected by them, so FAIL.  My real property can't "git out," and they now insist on an "exit tax."
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Social Contract
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2010, 04:02:14 PM »

It's not natural to respect property above a certain limit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geolibertarianism
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davann

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Re: Social Contract
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2010, 07:34:37 PM »

This is the social contract (and it has its basis in natural law.)  The other one is bullshit.

I'll say the same thing to you about your version of a social contract as I say to those that promote the progressive one. Show me where I signed and I will be happy live up to this contract. Until then, your version is just as much bullshit as theirs.

The idiot that came up with the concept of a social contract, the progressive version, thought he was doing good. He never anticipated the down sides. Just like you. Learn from that idiot's mistake.
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Social Contract
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2010, 08:50:40 PM »

This is the social contract (and it has its basis in natural law.)  The other one is bullshit.

I'll say the same thing to you about your version of a social contract as I say to those that promote the progressive one. Show me where I signed and I will be happy live up to this contract. Until then, your version is just as much bullshit as theirs.

The idiot that came up with the concept of a social contract, the progressive version, thought he was doing good. He never anticipated the down sides. Just like you. Learn from that idiot's mistake.

When you peacefully and voluntarily acquired property, that was a contract.  The people violently or involuntarily acquiring your property violated it.
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Social Contract
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2010, 08:52:04 PM »

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Evil Muppet

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Re: Social Contract
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2010, 01:59:59 AM »

here's my idea about the social contract.  

It is simply a concept that was developed by individuals within the middle class commercial interests.  It was a bunch of people who routinely engaged in commerce.  They were radicals for their time and they were unhappy with the policies of the status quo of that time so they developed an argument which would justify their favored outcome.   They used language and concepts that they understood.  Since they were part of the commercial class, they borrowed concepts and language from business.  
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Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
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