So You Can't Get a Buzz From E-Cigs?

[Bill Brasky]

Ya Dale. 

The problem is that re-sellers use the raw nicotine in their process creating any flavored liquid.  The good ones have large lab set-ups, test batches as much as possible (if not every batch they'll do random QC testing). 

The small ones who claim to be professional because they have good-looking labels and a nicely designed web page, but behind the scenes are just some schlepper in a kitchen are not actually able to be as rigorous - even if they speak the language thoroughly. 

Ultimately, it takes money and employees.  And throughout the E-cig market, there is cheap knock-off products - whether they be batteries that release noxious fumes when they reach their lifes end, or ingredients in the pre-filled Chinese cartos like raw-lead solder or damaging solvents.  Thats one of the reasons people bitch so hard about "Chinese junk".  Its not just patriotism or xenophobia.

Thats one of the reasons I try to stick with products that are simple and "transparent". 

Ego batts are pretty common.  You don't draw air through them, but around them.  When they die, they die.  They just perform like shit and you throw them away. 

The carto's I prefer are cleartomizers that don't have a whole lot of parts in them, are clear (as implied in the name), and disposable.  I get mine from companies that are fairly well-regarded in the "vape" community, with the belief that wide-spread proliferation will be self-regulatory.  A lot of intelligent people using a product, someone will blow the whistle - as seen in the aforementioned ECF warning thread. 

The liquid, I go with a guy who regularly interacts with his clients on FB.  He is prone to short statements and comes off "dickish" sometimes, but he has local employees and I believe if someone was disgruntled with his practices they'd similarly raise the alarm to the community.  I can guarantee you he saw the nicotine thread, or knows of it, and probably tested his nicotine supply. 

So, I feel reasonably safe.

Where the industry is gonna falter is dubious reselling of products believed to be safe, and re-branded by "vanity" companies.  Those resellers have no clue whats inside, from batch to batch.  People lie to each others, fraud is common in any industry where consumable products are passed through a vendor. 

I would no sooner consume some of these products than I would drugs or candy made in China.  I can't see me eating candy made in China, purchased from some knock-off gas station.  If you've ever harbored concern for the sketchy energy pills in the one-dollar packets, its the same concept. 

The "Big Tobacco" interests and FDA propagandists will surely make waves with the overall situation, I have no doubt about that.  But it is because they will be sort-of right that it will gain traction.  The grain of truth embedded is what will grow the pearl. 

People who want to sell stuff have a responsibility to sell quality stuff, or they're doing more harm than good. 

The thread from ECF shows clearly that we as a population are entirely capable of self-regulatory practices.

People who claim those beliefs but don't actually practice them are a detriment and should not be supported in the marketplace.   

[Osborne]

Ultimately, it takes money and employees.  And throughout the E-cig market, there is cheap knock-off products - whether they be batteries that release noxious fumes when they reach their lifes end, or ingredients in the pre-filled Chinese cartos like raw-lead solder or damaging solvents.  Thats one of the reasons people bitch so hard about "Chinese junk".  Its not just patriotism or xenophobia.


I would no sooner consume some of these products than I would drugs or candy made in China.  I can't see me eating candy made in China, purchased from some knock-off gas station.  If you've ever harbored concern for the sketchy energy pills in the one-dollar packets, its the same concept. 

Ceteris paribus, I would rather buy Chinese. Those mofos get executed when they screw up products.

[Bill Brasky]

Its worth noting, that wasn't specifically directed at VaporSmith.  

Follow along - about a page back, I mentioned in response to quality and safety concerns, there are indeed liability aspects.  

The thread from ECF (which is the premiere Electronic Cigarette Forum) entitled "Houston We Have A Problem" was in regard to a supplier named Elder Box - which I assume is an online wholesaler - let loose some fuckups into the product stream.  

This all surfaced into bulk-liquid sellers products. One sample titrated revealed a MG/ml strength of something like 270mg.  

If that can happen with artisan liquid manufacturers, it can indeed happen with pre-filled carto's by people who labor at repetitive tasks.    

The problem with pre-filled cartomizers is, you can't really QC them as they are passed through in bulk.  You can't really trust any manufacturing process, and if you've ever worked in a factory OR pharmacy, you'll know mistakes happen.  And e-cig juice, whether it be pre-filled or bulk, is indeed a pharmaceutical product, by definition.  It contains a drug of measured strength.  

In the practice of Pharmacopeia, the acceptable margin of human error as recognized by the WHO is "zero".  This is completely unprecedented in human labor industry.  

Following that, I expressed my concerns over the standard 808-style e-cig with pre-filled carts, which I find to be an entry-level product.  I started on them, and for the hundredth time, I would probably still be using them if the cartomizers were affordable and reliable enough to satisfy my preferences.

The thing that alleviates my personal concerns over possible contaminants and irregularities is minimizing the number of potential hazards, and minimizing risk mathematically.  

I use batteries I trust.  I use cleartomizers I trust, from a widely used reputable source.  And I use juice I trust, from a source I can contact immediately.  

Following this conversation, I contacted Geoff Braithewaite at TastyVapor directly, and he answered all questions I had.  He wasn't mad at the imposition, was courteous and transparent about all aspects of his manufacturing process.  

I know for a fact, I couldn't do that with some bulk pre-filled cartos that circle the globe, looking for a home.  

So, what I suggest is people practice safety and personal responsibility, and do your own due diligence.  I don't endorse any product, but I'll be more than happy to steer you to sources I've had success with.  

I will say, the debate over simple possession of bulk liquid is preposterous, especially coming from a vast majority of gun-rights advocates.  One simply has to be aware of the dangers, and keep their shit where children and pets cannot ingest liquids - and that goes for pre-filled cartomizers too.  You can suck the juice out, and pets can chew them up.  They are candy flavored, which is naturally attractive to the oral nature of children and pets.

When I first started on e-cigs, I was under the impression a cartomizer was the approximate equivalent of a half-pack of cigarettes.   Mathematically, this was an attractive substitute for analog cigarettes alone, cutting my smoking expenses in half.  

I found this to be untrue, as I was using about four cartomizers a day, and at ~$8 for five, this was more expensive than cigarettes.

If this doesn't matter to you, and the flavors are to your liking, and the source is trustworthy (to your own level of acceptability), pre-filled 808's are probably the best all-around solution.  They are meant to be one-use and disposable, which I find to be wasteful, but others may like the simplicity.  

If you require some flexibility of flavors and strengths, and actually enjoy the HOBBY of vaping - you could explore other avenues.  A quote I saw covers this nicely - "Smoking is a habit, vaping is a lifestyle choice".  

I happen to like the exploration of different methods.  Here's some I've tried.  

LR306's - probably the best taste, but for dripping and tends to burn out quick.
510's - also good for dripping, and the basic standard.  One level up from 808's.
808's - reasonably good flavor and easy to use, but runs dry quick and tastes like shit when burning the fluffy material inside.
Ego-T - tastes great, but expensive and they get leaky, which is a pain in the balls.
510xl cleartomizers, using them now.  The workhorse of my kit.

Here again is my kit - sorry for the blurry shit, I didn't want to take another photo.  

As you can see, I have a lot of little trinkets and supplies, and a lot of juice flavors.  Some I mix, some are straight out of the bottle, as made.  It took me a lot of time and money to figure out what I like, and what sucks ass.  I wish I had the luxury of complacency, but I don't.  

I rationalized this expense as the equivalent of four months of smoking.  At this rate, I can now go until Spring before I have to buy any further supplies, and those should be minimal.  I will probably get a Proveri or Darwin (still love the Darwin), when I feel like it.  Hell, I could get both, in the money I save.  

The best part is, I never have to smoke again.  That, in itself, is priceless.  So, to all smokers, I honestly recommend any avenue necessary to achieve a non-tobacco lifestyle.  The natural evolution after that is up to you.  And be curious about alternatives, you will be rewarded in many ways.  You will learn things.  Join FaceBook groups, read other peoples opinions.  Don't rely on any one person to tell you the gospel, or assume whatever you're using is "the best", because theres no such thing as "the best" in matters of an expanding technology, but there is always a worst.

[Bill Brasky]

Ultimately, it takes money and employees.  And throughout the E-cig market, there is cheap knock-off products - whether they be batteries that release noxious fumes when they reach their lifes end, or ingredients in the pre-filled Chinese cartos like raw-lead solder or damaging solvents.  Thats one of the reasons people bitch so hard about "Chinese junk".  Its not just patriotism or xenophobia.


I would no sooner consume some of these products than I would drugs or candy made in China.  I can't see me eating candy made in China, purchased from some knock-off gas station.  If you've ever harbored concern for the sketchy energy pills in the one-dollar packets, its the same concept. 

Ceteris paribus, I would rather buy Chinese. Those mofos get executed when they screw up products.

If I'm dead, executing all the Chinese won't matter. 

I don't have a problem with Chinese products.  I have a problem with products that enjoy QC anonymity.  The majority of e-cig "junk" comes from China.  I woudn't care if that happened to be Mexico or Eastern Europe, junk is junk. 

Since I'm a bit of an admirer of Eastern culture, I appreciate the attention to detail that "they" have.  But that doesn't mean I'll just ignore potential danger. 

Did you know, I'm revered as a god in China?  Seriously.  The place is littered with shrines to me.  Its a little embarrassing.  One of the best compliments you can be paid in China is "May you stand in the shadow of Brasky".